64-bit?

[budweiser]

Will the game run on a 64-bit Win 7 OS?

I am speccing out a newe system and would like to know.

Thanks.

 

[Trias]

I can't imagine that it wouldn't. Most new computers will ship with win7 64bit by the time the game is released.

 

[Chalks]

Absolutely, it will certainly run on 7. Anything else would be madness.

 

[budweiser]

Absolutely, it will certainly run on 7. Anything else would be madness.

Maybe I am getting something wrong but WIn 7 can be either 32 or 64 bit. I thought the apps needed to specifically have a version to run on 64-bit.

 

[Chalks]

Maybe I am getting something wrong but WIn 7 can be either 32 or 64 bit. I thought the apps needed to specifically have a version to run on 64-bit.

Applications don't have to be explicitly written to work with 64-bit systems since the OS will emulate 32-bit mode for applications that can't handle it.

They may need to be written slightly differently to take full advantage of the additional resources of a 64-bit machine, but that is something they are certain to be doing since they're targeting DX11 systems and it would be a bit of an oversight to ignore 64-bit if you're aiming to utilise other aspects of high end rigs.

 

[budweiser]

Applications don't have to be explicitly written to work with 64-bit systems since the OS will emulate 32-bit mode for applications that can't handle it.

They may need to be written slightly differently to take full advantage of the additional resources of a 64-bit machine, but that is something they are certain to be doing since they're targeting DX11 systems and it would be a bit of an oversight to ignore 64-bit if you're aiming to utilise other aspects of high end rigs.

Thanks. I am not looking at anything too fancy, just a Dell M6500 with 4GB of RAM.

 

[Chalks]

Go for 8 GB if you're going 64-bit (if it's not going to blow your budget)

4GB is pretty much the same you could get with a 32-bit system and you might as well take advantage of the loveliness of the new technology!

 

[budweiser]

Go for 8 GB if you're going 64-bit (if it's not going to blow your budget)

4GB is pretty much the same you could get with a 32-bit system and you might as well take advantage of the loveliness of the new technology!

I'll do that later. I am pretty sure I can get the sticks cheaper than buying them from Dell.

 

[Konrad Klar]

Applications don't have to be explicitly written to work with 64-bit systems since the OS will emulate 32-bit mode for applications that can't handle it.

32bit programs are not emulated on 64bit Windows*. Emulation (translating from 32bit to 64bit) would mean noticeable slowdown. 32bit programs runs at their full speed (i.e. speed that would be achieved under 32bit Windows running at the same hardware). Processor is switched from 64bit mode to 32bit mode when 32bit program is running.
And I can confirm: Civilization 4 (and Warlords, Beyond The Sword) works on my Vista 64.

*) Unless you mean 64bit Windows Server for Itanium2, where 32bit programs are actually emulated.

 

[Chalks]

32bit programs are not emulated on 64bit Windows*. Emulation (translating from 32bit to 64bit) would mean noticeable slowdown. 32bit programs runs at their full speed (i.e. speed that would be achieved under 32bit Windows running at the same hardware). Processor is switched from 64bit mode to 32bit mode when 32bit program is running.
And I can confirm: Civilization 4 (and Warlords, Beyond The Sword) works on my Vista 64.

*) Unless you mean 64bit Windows Server for Itanium2, where 32bit programs are actually emulated.

Is this a semantic thing? Because WoW64 is an emulation layer by every definition I have been able to find.

 

[Konrad Klar]

Is this a semantic thing? Because WoW64 is an emulation engine layer by every definition I have been able to find.

Treat it as a clarification. Practical aspect of thing is that emulation involves (computional intensive) translation from one (32bit) to other (64bit) code, which is not case for x64 (non-Itanium2) Windows.
Not sure what are your sources of information. No offence but check at least http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW64.

 

[Chalks]

Sorry, ninja edited in the source.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa384274(VS.85).aspx

The WOW64 emulator runs in user mode. It provides an interface between the 32-bit version of Ntdll.dll and the kernel of the processor, and it intercepts kernel calls. The WOW64 emulator consists of the following DLLs:

[...]

I would take the Wikipedia definition over the official MSDN one but....

The emulation layer does more than just manage the CPU interaction.

 

[Konrad Klar]

Indeed Microsoft in its documentation says "emulator" when describes WOW64.
However, according to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa384219(v=VS.85).aspx

Processor hardware. Instruction emulation is performed on the chip. On the x64 processor, instructions are executed natively by the micro-architecture. Therefore, execution speed under WOW64 on x64 is similar to its speed under 32-bit Windows. On the Intel Itanium processor, more software is involved in the emulation, and performance suffers as a result.

...and it is my whole point.

Regards

 

[Chalks]

I'm confused. I said it was emulation, and your point was that "more software is involved in the emulation" sometimes?

I don't see the relevance.

 

[Konrad Klar]

On the x64 processor, instructions are executed natively by the micro-architecture.

is clarification for:

Applications don't have to be explicitly written to work with 64-bit systems since the OS will emulate 32-bit mode for applications that can't handle it.

Practical aspect of thing (my point) is:

Therefore, execution speed under WOW64 on x64 is similar to its speed under 32-bit Windows. On the Intel Itanium processor, more software is involved in the emulation, and performance suffers as a result.

This part may be tedious for others.
However if you are interested where exactly you are wrong in your statements:
"OS will emulate 32-bit mode"
x86 processor may work in 64bit/32bit/16bit/user/kernel mode.
16bit is not allowed on Windows x64, but other are not emulated. WoW64 provides to 32bit programs a 32bit versions of DLLs. 32bit programs itself and DLL are runing in real (not emulated) 32bit mode of processor.

 

[Chalks]

Every day is a school day.

 

[Disgustipated]

32bit programs are not emulated on 64bit Windows*. Emulation (translating from 32bit to 64bit) would mean noticeable slowdown. 32bit programs runs at their full speed (i.e. speed that would be achieved under 32bit Windows running at the same hardware). Processor is switched from 64bit mode to 32bit mode when 32bit program is running.
And I can confirm: Civilization 4 (and Warlords, Beyond The Sword) works on my Vista 64.

*) Unless you mean 64bit Windows Server for Itanium2, where 32bit programs are actually emulated.

how would this work if you were running one program that is 64 bit and one program that is 32 bit? I really don't think my processor is running at 32.

 

[Konrad Klar]

how would this work if you were running one program that is 64 bit and one program that is 32 bit? I really don't think my processor is running at 32.

Actually programs never runs simultaneously on the same logical core of processsor. Operating system may mimic such behaviour by switching between programs in short time (for Windows this is ca 15ms).
Switching involves many things, for example changing table of translations between virtual and physical memory (each Windows program has its own private address space that starts for each program at 0), so switching processor from 32 to 64 mode or vice versa (for the time of execution the program) is not a kind of masterpiece.

If you don't believe that you have a 32bit programs running at your 64bit system, check in Task Manager [CTRL+SHIFT+ESCAPE]. Programs marked with *32 are 32bit programs. If you don't believe that they are not emulated, then check theory under links provided by Chalks and me, or make speed tests of 32bit programs on similar hardware under 32bit and 64bit Windows and compare results.

 

[NBAfan]

I have Windows 7 64 bit and everything runs fine.

 

[Disgustipated]

Actually programs never runs simultaneously on the same logical core of processsor. Operating system may mimic such behaviour by switching between programs in short time (for Windows this is ca 15ms).
Switching involves many things, for example changing table of translations between virtual and physical memory (each Windows program has its own private address space that starts for each program at 0), so switching processor from 32 to 64 mode or vice versa (for the time of execution the program) is not a kind of masterpiece.

If you don't believe that you have a 32bit programs running at your 64bit system, check in Task Manager [CTRL+SHIFT+ESCAPE]. Programs marked with *32 are 32bit programs. If you don't believe that they are not emulated, then check theory under links provided by Chalks and me, or make speed tests of 32bit programs on similar hardware under 32bit and 64bit Windows and compare results.

I don't see where 32 or 64 bit is checked. Is it under applications or processes? I'm not technical savvy, but it just seemed to me that I do have 2 programs running at once.

I run both Itunes and Civ4 at the same time for instance. Although in both cases they are probably 32 bit. I'm not exactly sure. But surely there are cases where the other program would be 64 bit.