[DLL] (8-NS) Greece Alternative

[DoveCDog]

Current:
1. Klepht (replaces Commando - Light Infantry in EE):
available at Railroads
600 Production Cost
34 CS
3 Movement
"Ignores Terrain Costs"
"+25% when Attacking"
"Can Move After Attacking"
"Philhellenism" (Gain Gold and Production for every CS Ally or Friend on Fight)

2. Parthenon (replaces Scriverner's Office):
available at Writing
Production cost scales with number of cities
+1 Faith, +2 Gold, and +3 Culture
+3 City Strength
+1 Great Diplomat Point
+2 Paper resources (up from 1)
1 Civil Servant Specialist Slot
+25% Production towards Diplomatic Units on empire (up from +10% locally)
Receive 2 free Emissaries on construction (up from 1)
1Food in City for Every City-State Friend
1Food and 1Faith in City for Every City-State Ally
Diplomatic units in this City get the "Proxenos" promotion (+2 Gold Per Turn in Capital from Diplomatic Missions)
+3 Culture to Markets on Empire

Proposition:
1. Klepht changes
Replaces Fusilier
Same Production cost as Fusilier
40 CS
Trailblazer III

2. Parthenon changes
+1 Culture to Markets on Empire
+15% Production towards Diplomatic Units on empire (up from +10% locally)

Rationale:
1. At 34 CS this Commando replacement is almost as good as a Fusilier, and can be used as a regular front-line unit. Yet at the same time, you don't have much reason to use them for offensive actions as Fusliers are just better. Giving them Trailblazer III with 3 movement and move after attacking makes them into a more mobile Fusilier, which should be more fun than a tougher Commando.
2. +3 Culture to all markets in Classical era is wayyy to strong. Considering that at this point in the game most culture comes from monuments, the player'd be able to double their entire culture output with a single building. Likewise the +25% Production to all diplomatic units is stronger than most World Wonders. Even at +15% it is quite strong.

 

[DoveCDog]

After some thought I decided my original proposal of a highly mobile harrasing unit wasn't very fun. Especially on smaller maps, there wouldn't be much room to maneuver or get damage done.
Changed it to a mobile Fusilier replacement. Using the Musketeer as a baseline mobile melee unit, we're keeping the CS buff lower, but adding more mobility and the gold+production yields.

 

[hokath]

At voting I assume you are happy for this to be split into one vote on the Parthenon tweak and then a separate one about the UU?

 

[pineappledan]

This looks like an overcorrection.

The current global yields to a building class are comparable to the +3 Assyria’s UNW gives to libraries. Even at +2 that would be the lowest amount of building class yield bonuses given by any UNW. +1 is practically nothing.

Giving only 5% more production over the base scrivener is small enough I hardly see the point.

 

[DoveCDog]

This looks like an overcorrection.

The current global yields to a building class are comparable to the +3 Assyria’s UNW gives to libraries. Even at +2 that would be the lowest amount of building class yield bonuses given by any UNW. +1 is practically nothing.

Giving only 5% more production over the base scrivener is small enough I hardly see the point.

Disagree. First of all, I'm sure most players agree that Syria's UNW is the best part of his kit - it's not fair to use that as a baseline comparison. Second of all, at the point in the game you get Syria's Library, you have +3 science in every city, plus the +7 or so base science you get from the start of the game. For Culture, you have +2 culture in every city plus 0 base. So it's not at all fair to draw a direct equivalence between +x Science should equate to +x Culture. +1 Culture in every city is +50% culture. Syria's is twice as strong, yes, but again: it's the cornerstone of his kit.

It's +5% production base city, but +15% global. Which you will actually use as Greece seeing as we're giving him more paper.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.