[DLL] (8-NS) 4UC Poland - Remove Pancerni, add Cichociemni

[Shadowbeast]

Proposal:

Remove Pancerni from Poland's kit and add Cichociemni instead.

UM - Cichociemni (replaces Paratrooper)
Same stats as Paratrooper but
"Rota AK" (Can attack after Paradropping. Lost on upgrade)

Rationale:
Even though I'm Polish z dziada pradziada, I had to google who they were when I saw them in the game. Unless you are interested in history, the first thing that comes to mind with the word Pancerni is Czterej pancerni i pies. Cichociemni are much more recognizable in Poland.
There is already a unique Heavy Skirmisher - Camel Archer
There isn't many unique components in later eras

 

[pineappledan]

Need @adan_eslavo to weigh in I think.
The Pancerny was selected and coded by him, and he is also Polish.

Personally I think a heavy skirmisher is preferable because we have only a few UU replacements for it and it is far more likely to be seen than a unit that unlocks so late.

 

[Shadowbeast]

Also @CppMaster

 

[CppMaster]

I'm also Polish yet I haven't heard about neither Pancerni as Skirmishers or Cichociemni. I do agree that the TV show "Czterej Pancerni i Pies" was popular when I was a kid.

Imho the most recognizable after Hussars are:
Polskie Siły Powietrzne (Polish Air Forces) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Air_Forces_in_France_and_Great_Britain
Mostly Fighters. Most notably was 303 Squadron: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303_Squadron_RAF

 

[adan_eslavo]

These are very, very late units and I saw that recently such late units have been replaced by pdan with earlier ones.

I do agree that 303 squadron is much more recognizable than Cichociemni, who I heard of maybe once before this conversation.

TBH, Panerni is actually Towarzysz Panerny and this unit was maybe not as elite as Husaria, but still existed on the battlefield were Rzeczpospolita (Commonwealth) was in its peak.

If I was to choose some really unique unit, and unit that could have an earlier impact on the game then I would choose Kosynier (singular)/Kosynierzy (plural). Every kid in Poland know about them from history lessons.

Either this or stay with Panerni which are good unit gameplay wise. I cannot currently think of another unit that is unit more unique than this.

My really first idea for Polish UU was Polish Voy/Woj but we decided it was meh.

Maybe Unique Polish Engineer/Scientist? Enigma?

I think a late unit like my predecessors suggested could indeed be added, but only as a 5th component. They will not be seens so often, because they would show after or in Atomic Era.

Read this.

The truth is that Poland throuout its history was known of Horse troops (Druzhina, Pancerni/Light Lithuanian Cavalry/Husaria/Lisowczycy/Szwoleżerowie/Uhlans). It is currently, correct me if I'm wrong, the only civ having two Cavalry units.

And the project of Cichociemni suggested in this thread is boooring.

 

[KlHannibal2]

Aside from history, once winged hussars come online, I would not get any paratroopers, even if they can attack after dropping. Landships / tanks that upgraded from hussars are insanely strong.

 

[Stalker0]

Aside from history, once winged hussars come online, I would not get any paratroopers, even if they can attack after dropping. Landships / tanks that upgraded from hussars are insanely strong.

This is probably true. Though I will say the idea of a paratrooper that can attack after paradrop seems pretty badass, would be good to have it somewhere.

It might be a good idea to double up on the recon line with UUS. We often talk about one weakness of Recon UUs is you mass them and never again enjoy the power of that mass once you lose the UU ability. But having a followup UU for recon could keep that ability going.

 

[CppMaster]

How about UU - Lotnik (replaces Fighter)
+5 CS and can intercept twice.
Based on 303 Squadron as defensive air forces.

 

[pineappledan]

That runs into problems for policy UUs. What happens if Poland goes autocracy and unlocks the Zero?

 

[CppMaster]

That runs into problems for policy UUs. What happens if Poland goes autocracy and unlocks the Zero?

Can it build both Lotnik and Zero?

 

[pineappledan]

dunno, but why not pick any unit other than the 3 ideology units from one of the 6 prior eras instead of doubling up on a UU?

 

[CppMaster]

dunno, but why not pick any unit other than the 3 ideology units from one of the 6 prior eras instead of doubling up on a UU?

Because they were fighting in WWII. Although I agree that it could be problematic.

How about:
Unique Promotion - Lotnik (Applies to all fighter class units: Triplane, Fighter, Jey Fighter and their replacements)
+5 CS and can intercept twice.
Based on 303 Squadron as defensive air forces. Lotnik is a person controlling a plane, not the plane itself, so it kinda fits as promotion, because it extends the abilities for any fighter plane if Lotnik controls it. Also it's unique that a promotion is a unique component It would be a precedence for other unique promotions.

 

[Rekk]

Also it's unique that a promotion is a unique component It would be a precedence for other unique promotions.

Many civilizations already have promotions as a unique component. They're in the UA.

The precedent is already set.

 

[CppMaster]

Yes, as part of UA or UU. It kinda makes sense then for Lotnik as UA, but it's not at all related to social policies, so I'm reluctant and it was already stated that fighter UU could be problematic.

 

[adan_eslavo]

TBH, Lotnik, a name, sounds really meh. I mean, Lotnik is simply a man who steers a plane. Nothing original that would justify using it as a UU or a promotion.
If I was to choose any of the options, I would expand UA with this promotion, but then it would feel like both parts are not going together well. Just two separate things put in the UA.

 

[KlHannibal2]

How about UU - Lotnik (replaces Fighter)
+5 CS and can intercept twice.
Based on 303 Squadron as defensive air forces.

A WW2 UU? Wasn't Poland steamrolled?

 

[CppMaster]

What better name could be instead of Lotnik? Although, it's in line with some other unique components that are common words in the civs respective language, like an Incan name for mountains farm etc.

 

[CppMaster]

A WW2 UU? Wasn't Poland steamrolled?

Yep, the defense mentioned was in UK.

 

[hawat]

Hi,
Allow me to throw in my own "trzy grosze"
When considering military units in terms of uniqueness, I would lean more towards the Cichociemni or the Kosynierzy.
Towarzysze pancerni were mainly a support unit for the Hussars, but imho they weren't that exceptional.
303 Squadron brought together the best pilots and was unremarkably effective, but it was not unique.
The Kosynierzy were a very unique unit, formed mainly by the scarcity of firearms and the ability to engage peasants when Poland was in crisis.
The Cichociemni were closely associated with the resistance movement during WWII, which happened to be quite unique in Europe.

In terms of uniqueness, the Pospolite Ruszenie still comes to mind, but I am too occasional a player to suggest unit characteristics

 

[Rekk]

What better name could be instead of Lotnik? Although, it's in line with some other unique components that are common words in the civs respective language, like an Incan name for mountains farm etc.

Many civilizations had pilots. Very few had mountain farms.