8th Grade Proficiency: 12% at Reading, 8% at Math in Washington D.C.

[Archbob]

While I don't agree with Merk on many things, he is right about a few things.

1. Many of those kids do actually choose to fail, just like their parents did. Sitting on your ass and waiting for the government to pull you out or joining gangs(which is what 90% of these kids do) isn't going to help.

2. Compared to 80% of the world, even the slum school look like heaven and yet kids who go to schools that are tin cans outperform even out best school every time.

 

[Trajan12]

I agree with most of that too.

But there is simply an unusually high amount of vitriol in those posts. It's bad when someone is such a hateful person that even people who agree with them can't just agree with them. I sense a bit of personal slant in his posts.

 

[Left]

As an aside, I have a professor from Ghana. Where he comes from you learn differential and integral calculus before you graduate high school. Just...strange isn't it?

I'd be more impressed if literacy in Ghana was above 57%.

 

[Merkinball]

It's bad when someone is such a hateful person that even people who agree with them can't just agree with them. I sense a bit of personal slant in his posts. - Trajan

Of course there's personal slant in my posts. So what? My overarching point still stands. What's the underlying agenda anyway? These places are full of animals. Did you see the murder rate for Chicago this summer? It's absurd. When you take a look at statistics like the one in the opening post, look at welfare rates, high school graduation rates, drug use rates, gun violence, gang violence, teenaged pregnancy rates...what do you call those people? Are they just down and out? Do they need some positive encouragement? Or are they animals.

I'd be more impressed if literacy in Ghana was above 57%. - Left

I guess you are missing the entire point. Djibouti is much the same. I can remember going into a school in Djibouti...a very bad school at that...even by Djiboutian standards. Dust, broken desks, no windows, no shutters on the windows, no alphabets on the wall, no nothing. Yet, there was trigonometry on the board that I had learned when I was a junior in high school. I asked what grade was learning this material and this boy Elmi raised his hand and smiled. Elmi was nine at the time. But Elmi was lucky because he had an opportunity to go to school in the first place.

It's fair to point out that literacy rates in these destitute hell holes is low. But it's low because not every can go to school. Not everyone can go to school, and not everyone can afford to go to school. School is an opportunity. School is a way out. The majority of kids in these places, along with their parents, would do just about anything to go to school. These are places that are truly impovershed. What's so strange is that these societies are cognicent of what they must do to prepare their students to compete and be successful. So they teach their nine year olds trigonometry, while we teach our nine year olds basic multiplication and introduce them to division. Here, the majority of kids never even learn trigonometry. They drop out, or they go to vocational school. But for those who are lucky enough to attend school in Ghana, they have the mental fortitude to stick with it and learn differential and integral calculus by the time they graduate.

The breadth of their educational programs is not all encompassing by any stretch of the imagination. But the quality of education within these schools is excellent. And the students within them are driven to succeed.

I was always really struck by the mentality of individuals over there. They ALL desired to learn. They all wanted to learn English, and math. All of them. I don't know how many people I met that wanted me to teach them Somali. I was even invited to a local school to teach adults how to read and write Somali. They all want to learn because they understand that it is their only way out. They want out of the slum. They want out of Africa or to make Africa better. And they know that education is the only way they are going to achieve that goal.

But here, what's our attitude? EVERYONE has access to schools. We all have access to libraries. We have access to the internet. No matter how bad a public schools laboratory equipment is, it is still superior to anything in the third world. Along with computer and information technology access. Yet, we have city (and it's not just DC mind you) where less 12% can achieve at a pathetic 8th grade level, and 8% at a pathetic math level. It's really sad, and really depressing.

Instead of seeing education as the opportunity to get out, they reject it. They outright reject education. Their parents reject it. Their offspring rejects it. And the cycle keeps on continuing. And these animals all believe they are entitled to the same thing as people who work hard at life. They believe they are entitled to whatever they so desire. It's bogus.

And just for a reality check. If you are walking through Nairobi and say that you're an African American, you're gonna get mugged.

 

[WICKLC1]

They can throw money at the problem all they want, but things won't get any better until we stop worrying about the kids rights and start enforcing discipline.

 

[Merkinball]

They can throw money at the problem all they want, but things won't get any better until we stop worrying about the kids rights and start enforcing discipline.

Well, that's tough. Because when my best friend was teaching in Nashville inner city public schools, if he tried to discipline anybody, then he was being a racist. Kid threw a book across the room and hit one of his only good students in the face. Gave her bloody nose and cut her lip! He sent the kid to the office and the kid was wandering the halls in ten minutes. The principal couldn't do anything because the student said he was being racist. They tried to do something about it, but the MOM of the kid (daddy was in jail) said he was being racist, and that it would be racist to punish him.

The system is broken.

 

[WICKLC1]

Well, that's tough. Because when my best friend was teaching in Nashville inner city public schools, if he tried to discipline anybody, then he was being a racist. Kid threw a book across the room and hit one of his only good students in the face. Gave her bloody nose and cut her lip! He sent the kid to the office and the kid was wandering the halls in ten minutes. The principal couldn't do anything because the student said he was being racist. They tried to do something about it, but the MOM of the kid (daddy was in jail) said he was being racist, and that it would be racist to punish him.

The system is broken.

I think pc is the root of all of our problems.

 

[JollyRoger]

Repeal the 13th Amendment and get our country back on track.

 

[BasketCase]

But there is simply an unusually high amount of vitriol in those posts.

How is that possible??? I haven't posted in this thread yet.

To me, the vitriol comes from the assumption that if Washington DC isn't the absolute best at everything, there's a problem. The U.S. isn't like that. We're the second-best at some things, third best at others. Every other nation is 1st Place in one thing, and #57 in everything else. What's important is when you tally up the scores in all categories (education, military, social programs, etc etc etc). The nation that does reasonably well at lots of things will come out on top.

 

[Archbob]

But unfortunately we suck at language, math, and science, which is why school is there in the first place.

 

[Nike Zeus]

How is that possible??? I haven't posted in this thread yet.

To me, the vitriol comes from the assumption that if Washington DC isn't the absolute best at everything, there's a problem. The U.S. isn't like that. We're the second-best at some things, third best at others. Every other nation is 1st Place in one thing, and #57 in everything else. What's important is when you tally up the scores in all categories (education, military, social programs, etc etc etc). The nation that does reasonably well at lots of things will come out on top.

I agree, the solution is to lower our expectations. 8/100 ain't bad.

 

[Yeekim]

I'd just like to sign under everythink Merkinball has posted in this thread.
Except the part where he outright insults animals.

 

[BasketCase]

Would this be a good time, then, to do the PETA joke?

 

[Red Door]

No I don't. What percentage of teenagers in DC do you suppose are involved in some sort of gang related/drug related activities? My bet is about the inverse of the proportion of eighth graders that can read at an eigth grade level.

And here we go: Merk starts with a post of ignorance and made-up facts. What a damn surprise.

Yes they do.

No, they really don't. But you wouldn't know that since you classify them as animals, nor have you tried to fix the problem, nor have you seen the streets of Washington.

You mean they don't have access to schools!!! What!!!!! You mean it's impossible for them to go to libraries!!! Holy hell! I had no idea that DC was in such terrible shape. No schools. No libraries. Man...what are we to do with DC. *ponders*

Yeah, those schools with crumbling walls, broken facilities, teachers that don't care, and the libraries, where do you think those libraries are? You must think they have them in Anacostia, NE, Sursum Corda, or any of those places that actually need them. No, they're located in NW. The fact of the matter is that these kids don't have an environment in which they can learn. Those "resources" are not adequate for anyone to learn in, and until you see it yourself, you can't say people can do it. You didn't. And don't tell me what people in Ethiopia can and can't do. That's not 4 blocks from the Capitol. That's not people being ignored by their own people because "they chose their lifestyle." Yeah, quit trying Merk. You're making yourself to be a fool because you don't know about D.C. and their situation.

Oh will someone please stitch up your aching bleeding heart. I don't care HOW broken their homes are. THEY STILL CHOOSE! You put drugs in front of me, I don't have to take them. You put a gun in my hand, I don't have to use it. Put my daddy in jail, I don't have to become like him if I choose not too. This is their motherf----ing rotten society that they have chosen to develop. They choose to emulate their gangster rap artists. They choose to do the drugs. They choose to start f-----g at an early age. They choose to go on welfare instead of acquire education and skills and get a good job. They choose to drop out of high school. They choose to do drugs instead of going to the library to study. These are their choices. This is their society.

You put drugs and a gun in front of your head, you choose to use it. You put a gun in your hand and one on your head, you choose to use it. Once again, you fail to recognize what actually happens on the streets of this city, something I actually have experience in. Something I've seen, something that I've actually been part of. You don't choose your lifestyle in these places, you get it chosen for you by the gangs of this city. They don't choose to not get an education. There is no option. Those that try are harassed, get put on drugs, or get shot. The ones that make it out, there's a reason they never come back in. And it sucks, but they didn't choose this society. And you know it, but you're so dishonest that you refuse to acknowledge that. But

Oh really? I'm out of touch with reality? You were where exactly over the summer? Guatemala? I would think you would have taken back something on that trip. But apparently none of it really absorbed into your skull because you still have sympathy for these animals that inhabit Washington DC.

Yeah, you are. You keep spouting these false statements. I did take something back from Guatemala, but hey, don't let the trolling get in your way. These people are not animals, but you're too much of a racist (yes, I said it. There's no white people going to these schools and you know it just as well as I do.) They are fellow human beings that need our help to improve our society as well as there's. Most kids didn't choose their lifestyle, but your ignorance tells you to forget about them. Please, for your own sake, stop spouting these damn lies.

A school is a blessing. No matter how delapidated it is. Anacostia High School? I scoff. Come overseas with me, and I'll illuminate your world so that you'll understand just how blessed Anacostia High School really is. Oh wait, I got it now. You think that just because Anacostia High School isn't a suburban highschool with a shiny glass facade, and brand new advanced lab equipment, with new computers, and marble floors, with 4 teachers lounges, that it's just an awful awful place. No blessing there. But I'm pretty sure that Anacostia High school isn't a one room tin shack in the middle of a f-----g African slum in the hottest city on earth with no glass windows, and no air conditioning. And I'm pretty sure that the kids in Anacostia high school aren't sitting atop one another hand over fist. But ya know what's funny? I've met kids under 10 years old that could outperform most of the inhabitants of Washington DC in just about any subject matter you throw in front of them. Kids that speak four languages fluently, two that they learned in that one room shack. But that's okay Al. You keep on whining and crying about how unfortunate the situation is at Anacostia High School.

It is poor indeed: http://www.k12.dc.us/schools/anacostia/index.html

I've seen the poorest of the poor Merk. I've seen people living on garbage dumps. I've seen people going to school on garbage dumps. BUT THAT GIVES NO EXCUSE TO IGNORE THOSE IN OUR OWN NEIGHBORHOODS. You can make your neighbor's society better for people, or you can ignore it like you do. One of them attempts to fix the problem - the other ignores it and lets fellow humans die. What a good person you are. I'll just point to this post anytime you even attempt to say you care about your fellow human beings. You are a liar and a hypocrite. You can look at the pretty picture on your screen about Anacostia, or you can come to the streets of D.C. and see what it's really like to try and be educated here. That'll give you one hell of a perspective.

I

would be willing to bet that 2/3 of the worlds children would do just about anything to attend school at Anacostia High school. I don't think I'm really the one out of touch with reality here. Say...what did you take back with you from Guatemala?

And so what? Should we not try to improve the lowest of our society because others are lower? Really Merk, is that what you're trying to say? Are you really saying that you don't care about your fellow humans? Those kids in Guatemala, they wanted to be educated, just like those kids in Southeast did before they got a gun to their head and told to shoot the next girl that comes by.

LOL! Are you kidding me? You're not being serious. This is just too much at this point.

Dunbar high school...As in...The Crimson Tide?

http://www.dunbardc.com/index.html

Wow. Look at all those shiny new uniforms for those sports teams. Those fancy championship banners. Man, there is just no richness there at all. A gigantic solid brick building. What looks to be a brand new sports facility.

http://www.dunbardc.com/gallery.html

Man. It's amazing how "bad" these places are.

And what about the education they receive? Or would it be too much for you to actually find out about that and convienently look at the poorly-spent money.

Oh yeah...You think so huh. Well, tell me, what is your opinion of this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bittermonk/159427054/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bittermonk/159424555/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bittermonk/159421406/

In all your infinite wisdom of how TERRIBLE and just GOD AWFUL shape these schools are in that have brand new sports facilities and spiffy new uniforms, you go find an image like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bittermonk/159426475/
http://www.usaid.gov/stories/images/ba_dj_guellehBEFORE.jpg

Ignorant huh? Hey Al, don't let the door hit you on the way out...

It's terrible. The world has problems. The difference is that one of us acknowledges that the problems and tries to fix them, and it's not the one I'm quoting. Have a nice day Merk, thanks for proving you're ignorant. Thanks for showing you know jack about what goes on in the streets of DC and any other major city. Thanks for showing you have absolutely no feelings towards fellow humans. Thanks for showing you have no clue on what reality is like for thousands of kids. Thanks for assuming stuff about me. Thanks for trolling me instead of making an actual argument. You talk big here, but you do nothing for humanity.

 

[Archbob]

Merkinball wins.

Point, set , match.

Oh, by the ways, the % of kids in that area that are involved in drugs/violence/gangs is a lot higher that the 12% reading rate. Thats not a lie. In many of those areas, nearly every one of the kids is somehow involved in such things.

No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to do drugs. Kids choose to do it because they want to fit in. They are ignorant of its consequences, but it is still their choice.

And Red Door, you have cited even less sources than Merk to back your own posts.

 

[Red Door]

Oh, by the ways, the % of kids in that area that are involved in drugs/violence/gangs is a lot higher that the 12% reading rate. Thats not a lie. In many of those areas, nearly every one of the kids is somehow involved in such things.

No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to do drugs. Kids choose to do it because they want to fit in. They are ignorant of its consequences, but it is still their choice.

And Red Door, you have cited even less sources than Merk to back your own posts.

I never denied that. And you seem to know a lot about these kids you've never seen.

False, false, and false. You see it all the time in Sursom Corda and the ghettos of D.C. They don't have a choice. It might not be a literal gun. It might be a gang threatening their death, it might be a parent threatening to beat them. Not everyone has the moral strength to say no, and that choice isn't much of a choice at all. Not everyone knows the effects either, and with these statistics, it's hard to believe people do know all of the effects of drugs.

You want my sources? My sources are the actual streets, the ones I'm on every day going to school. My sources are real people, people going to C.O. Wilson, Perry School, and Walker Jones. My sources are homeless men who I have conversations with daily. I don't need an article to tell me what I know is going on. I don't need a blogger to show me some meaningless statistics. But if you want to just call this a win for Merk, please, continue being ignorant. Until you spend 5 minutes on these streets, you have no freaking clue what goes on down there. Merk can show this about Ethiopia, but he seems to ignore it here.

EDIT: If you don't like this argument tactic, deal with it. I'm tired of the lies being spread about the poor kids of D.C. I'd like to see all of you last more than 15 minutes in the jungle.

 

[Archbob]

It can't be much different from the Harlem and the ghettos of New York, which I do know what they are like.

No, kids always have a choice. No one ever forces you to do drugs, its a choice. Drugs are there and the parents set a bad example, but its still your choice to use them or not.

I've also been to the ghettos of other countries like China and worse off countries. Hell, most of Africa is a ghetto. And guess what? Those kids who can afford to go to school do very well.

If they can do well under far worse conditions, why can't our kids do well?

Are we somehow inferior to them?

Or is it because the culture of those ghettos is just one of failure.

Look, someone else on CFC who is a teacher in one of these inner-city schools told us that one kid told her his dream for the future was "to go to the same prison his brother works at". When you have those dreams, it doesn't matter what resources you get, your not going anywhere except jail.

I've seen hard times. My parents grew up during the great leap forward in China where the conditions of being terrorized by the government itself were far worse than anything that goes on in these ghettos and yet many of them still managed to learn math, science, and language even without being able to go to school.

If they can learn under those conditions, than these kids can learn under ghettos conditions. There is no excuse.

I can tell you right now that Ghettos in other countries are far worse than Ghettos in America and yet those kids somehow still manage to learn and perform at a superior level.

 

[Red Door]

It can't be much different from the Harlem and the ghettos of New York, which I do know what they are like.

No, kids always have a choice. No one ever forces you to do drugs, its a choice. Drugs are there and the parents set a bad example, but its still your choice to use them or not.

I've also been to the ghettos of other countries like China and worse off countries. Hell, most of Africa is a ghetto. And guess what? Those kids who can afford to go to school do very well.

If they can do well under far worse conditions, why can't our kids do well?

Are we somehow inferior to them?

Or is it because the culture of those ghettos is just one of failure.

Look, someone else on CFC who is a teacher in one of these inner-city schools told us that one kid told her his dream for the future was "to go to the same prison his brother works at". When you have those dreams, it doesn't matter what resources you get, your not going anywhere except jail.

I've seen hard times. My parents grew up during the great leap forward in China where the conditions of being terrorized by the government itself were far worse than anything that goes on in these ghettos and yet many of them still managed to learn math, science, and language even without being able to go to school.

If they can learn under those conditions, than these kids can learn under ghettos conditions. There is no excuse.

I can tell you right now that Ghettos in other countries are far worse than Ghettos in America and yet those kids somehow still manage to learn and perform at a superior level.

There is always a cultural difference between cities. It's not that different, but there are some. D.C. can be improved, abandoning it is not the option. It's not a option. It's stupid, reckless, and it's absolutely ridiculous that people who say they fight for the common man propose it.

You really don't get how kids get addicted to drugs, do you? I obviously can't explain it, but in a lot of cases, it's not an active choice. If you don't get this, there's really no use in keeping this part of the debate again.

And there are kids who do well in D.C. schools too, but you all are ignoring those stories. There are success stories in every community.

It is the culture - that's what I have been saying. We can change the culture though, but no one wants to do it themselves. They'd rather do what you two say D.C. is doing, waiting for someone else to.

I really don't see what the problem is. There is a culture problem. The difference is, people here are advocating abandonment, and I'm advocating change of culture. There's no inherent difference. Merk would rather use derogatory terms than trying to do anything. I'd rather do anything. You'd rather whine about the problems then create a solution.

 

[Archbob]

No, I'd rather stop trying to be politically correct and give kids an excuse to fail.

There is a solution, but it involved displining kids, which the American government would never allow.

Take out all that racism bullcrap and don't let them hide under it.

Its hard when you can't punish a kid for throwing a book at another kid because its consider racist to punish the kid.

 

[Red Door]

No, I'd rather stop trying to be politically correct and give kids an excuse to fail.

There is a solution, but it involved displining kids, which the American government would never allow.

That out all that racism bullcrap and don't let them hide under it.

Its hard when you can't punish a kid for throwing a book at another kid because its consider racist to punish the kid.

Some kids fail because they don't try. Some kids fail because of situations. There's no black or white matter, especially in the case of Washington D.C.

And I'm all for disciplining kids, and that requires actual teachers. You can't bring in T.F.A. (sorry downtown) and expect them to have motivation after 2 weeks of hardships. You get new administrators (already happening in D.C. schools) who know what racism is and isn't.

You acknowledge there is some racism in the system and you get rid of it. Those are easy solutions and D.C. is on the way to doing that. Next would be the culture in the community, which could change if we had actual community leaders coming from these cities.