A Better America

[MadHaxxor]

really? you think the stock exchange buff is under powered?

+0.1% extra gold for every other stock exchange in the game.

So that means if there are 30 stock exchanges in the game, each one you have gives you +3% gold in that city . . .

You do know the market provides 25% gold, right? 3% is nothing

 

[That Other Guy]

I saw a suggestion that the ability to work (and buy) tiles in the cities fourth ring be added to the UA. It isn't a huge boost, but the US doesn't need one.

Feel free to tell me why that's a bad idea.

 

[Altisma]

America could use a slight boost / adjustment to compensate for the way the game has evolved since Civ V vanilla, but these ideas are bad. America is not a bad civ, it just isn't that exciting since it has little synergy and doesn't stand out too much from other civs. They should just get a simple boost, like diplomats provide 25% extra tourism to foreign civs.

America needs a revamp. Stop with the minimalist thinking that it isn't bad. If the civilization isn't unique, fun to play, or overall interesting it needs to be changed.

 

[evilcat]

I do like the idea of America getting an immigration based UA. Perhaps it could be +10% growth in every city with an external trade route?

This one would be interesting (and historically accurate), even more if it was per route related. Like each route (in or out) gives 1 food.

 

[GustavAdolf270]

America UA should be obvious, and quite historically accurate, civilian units, or at least workers and settlers ignore terrain costs.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

The UUs can stay.
The UA doesn't need another name, just add :
- +5 % growth in all cities for each DoF starting in the modern era
- +50 % ideological pressure during a Golden Age

This way America is strong when it's supposed to be(global immigration ; american way of life ; etc...), must seek friends when ideology complicates things, should emphasize late GAs in order to force other to switch their ideology (domino theory).

 

[MadHaxxor]

America needs a revamp. Stop with the minimalist thinking that it isn't bad. If the civilization isn't unique, fun to play, or overall interesting it needs to be changed.

America can be fun to play on the right map types. I'd like the 4th ring addition and increase the tile price reduction from 50% to 66%. Then they would be fun. I especially like them on west vs. east. Settle on the coast and buy every tile. The enemy can't hide anything from you and will have limited resources

 

[MadHaxxor]

consider Washington's love for the Order ideology.

Sounds about right

 

[Keirador]

I do like the idea of America getting an immigration based UA. Perhaps it could be +10% growth in every city with an external trade route?

Yeah, I like that too. I was also thinking maybe something like extra growth for every other Civilization with less happiness than America, but I'm not sure how to balance it. I just want to make sure it's a US that's not overpowered in 4000 BC but is still relevant in 1900 AD.

For the uniques, IIRC the Flying Fortress is just the nickname for the B-17 unit we already have so I dunno why you renamed it.

Yeah, they're two names for the same thing. Which one's cooler?

The shopping mall is... eh. I had an idea way back for a unique Great Merchant that can be burned in major civs and give a culture boost (the idea was G&K era, it would be tourism now) in addition to the gold. Not entirely sure what the name would be though. Great Entrepreneur would be a possibility; Venture Capitalist would work

I like the Venture Capitalist idea, but I might flip it on its head and make it a Great Musician that generates extra tourism as well as gold, and call it a Hollywood Producer or something. Some mechanic should recognize that in real life, America basically won a Culture victory on earth in the 90s after the Soviet Union fell. America has reached a Culture/Tourism level of Influential on every other major Civ.

Although it could fairly be said that Britain won a Culture victory back in the 19th century

though that might be a little odd consider Washington's love for the Order ideology.

It's odd in general, and has been for several expansions now, that Freedom favors small, focused empires. Many of the world's largest nations in real life are bona fide established liberal democracies, that could basically be said to follow a Freedom ideology.

 

[Keirador]

The UUs can stay.
The UA doesn't need another name, just add :
- +5 % growth in all cities for each DoF starting in the modern era
- +50 % ideological pressure during a Golden Age

This way America is strong when it's supposed to be(global immigration ; american way of life ; etc...), must seek friends when ideology complicates things, should emphasize late GAs in order to force other to switch their ideology (domino theory).

I'm mostly on the same page, but America's big immigration boom started in the Industrial Era, not the Modern Era, and the immigrant inflows weren't always coming from America's friends, they took in a lot of refugees, too. Since the whole country started in the Industrial Era, I think it's fair to assign America an immigration bonus for its entire existence in Civ.

I kinda like the idea of America getting population boosts from civilizations with less happiness than America, which is historically accurate and would be a less static, more interesting dynamic to play with. I'm not exactly sure how to implement it, but it could be something like all cities connected to the trade network get a population growth rate boost for each Civilization that has less happiness than America. That would incentivize an American player to really focus on material comfort, which seems accurate, and discourage an American player from really destroying other Civs Carthage style, which again seems accurate.

Especially if you combined this with a UB or something that buffed culture, it would orient America toward aiming for Culture or Diplomatic victories despite being an occasional warmonger.

 

[Keirador]

My other idea for a UA would be for America to ignore world congress decisions.

Why/how does this make sense? In general I think Civs should be able to ignore world congress decisions for a huge diplo/trade hit with all other civs, but why is America especially prone to ignore world congress decisions? Because it has a permanent veto on the Security Council? So do four other playable civs.

 

[HaloCapella]

the new Manifest Destiny:

- +1 vision to all land units.
- Can purchase tiles from other civilizations or city-states nearby your cities with Gold. Doing this will cause diplomatic penalties.

now settling near America will be a pain!

 

[pozz]

Why/how does this make sense? In general I think Civs should be able to ignore world congress decisions for a huge diplo/trade hit with all other civs, but why is America especially prone to ignore world congress decisions? Because it has a permanent veto on the Security Council? So do four other playable civs.

I think he was more refering to the NATO decision not to go into Iraq, which America saw fit to ignore.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Although it could fairly be said that Britain won a Culture victory back in the 19th century

Almost, but not quite. Autocracy was alive and well in Prussia/Germany despite the best efforts of their freedom-mongering British and French rivals. It would take two wars that would ironically rob Britain of her status as a world power to get the last great Autocracy to fall.

I like the Venture Capitalist idea, but I might flip it on its head and make it a Great Musician that generates extra tourism as well as gold, and call it a Hollywood Producer or something.

I like the Hollywood Producer idea but Great Works become a problem here. I wouldn't put a movie in an Opera House; they'd fit better as Great Writer replacements, though then they wouldn't fit tourism. One solution could be to give them tourism bombs that, in addition to the regular tourism bomb, gives a culture boost (maybe only half as strong as the regular Great Writer for balance purposes)? Of course Hollywood Producers would be major anachronisms, we could make it so that America starts getting HP's instead of Great Writers in the Modern Era but I wouldn't know how to code that (I am admittedly taking notes here for a Reinventing the Wheel mod I'm slowly working on, heheh).

 

[Soil]

Why/how does this make sense? In general I think Civs should be able to ignore world congress decisions for a huge diplo/trade hit with all other civs, but why is America especially prone to ignore world congress decisions? Because it has a permanent veto on the Security Council? So do four other playable civs.

While not exactly being unique to America it would also be completely game breaking.

If you could pick and choose which resolutions to obey you could do bizarre things such as gaining a majority delegation and banning ALL luxuries one by one - even ones you own. You could enable the opposite funding of what you're going for (eg. arts funding) to slow other civs generation rate of scientists which you could still produce at 100%. You could impose a standing army tax and then steamroll everyone with a huge army.

It would need some sort of limiting factor... but it would probably still be too powerful as the only real dangerous resolution that could be imposed on you is to be embargoed. If you remove that chance of happening then America basically gets free rein to be a huge warmonger.

 

[Tiggurix]

Change the UA to "National Debt" - You can spend your way into a deficit at the cost of 2% interest, and national unhappyness (based on the average cost of units at the time)

Now, I'm not an American myself, but I'm pretty sure every genuinely patriotic American Civ player (which I bet there's a few of) would be outraged at such a UA. It's certainly not something to be proud of, as a country.

I do like your suggestion regarding the B17, though.

 

[Vidszhite]

really? you think the stock exchange buff is under powered?

+0.1% extra gold for every other stock exchange in the game.

So that means if there are 30 stock exchanges in the game, each one you have gives you +3% gold in that city . . .

IDK that seems super powerful to me.

Also, if it wasnt clear, the idea would be to scale the unhappyness penalty with the cost of things in the game, so if you went 500 gold in debt in the classical era the backlash would be huge because thats like 250x your GDP, but going 500 gold in debt in the atomic era is no big deal because everything costs like 600-800 gold anyway, and youre making more money anyway.

Nobody gets stock exchanges in every city because they are so expensive, not even the AI. That's why it's terrible. There will never BE 30 stock exchanges on the map, and they are the first things to die in conquest. Even if there are, that's only 3% more gold. That might probably be worth a total of 5 gpt in your whole empire, and most people only get them in their capital and their east India company city, so probably less. Do you really think a measly 0.1% per very rare building is enough to be worth a unique? What does it enable America to do that it couldn't before? Nothing! It is not only weak, it is very boring and shallow. I would RATHER have the B17.

 

[Vidszhite]

The UUs can stay.
The UA doesn't need another name, just add :
- +5 % growth in all cities for each DoF starting in the modern era
- +50 % ideological pressure during a Golden Age

This way America is strong when it's supposed to be(global immigration ; american way of life ; etc...), must seek friends when ideology complicates things, should emphasize late GAs in order to force other to switch their ideology (domino theory).

I like it. I like it a lot. Very American, sounds fun to use.

 

[JustinianIV]

Yes, they need to change. They are among the top civs that I have never played and have no desire of ever doing so.

Still, I find your suggestions too complicated. Too much % for my brain.

I like the suggestions that have to do with ideological pressure. America should have some bonus for asserting their americaness on other cultures.

Plus, we're all living in America.

 

[evilcat]

Questions to those who have mod experience:
How hard is to mode/add so that growth/food value change when:
a ) DoF signed?
b ) Has trade route?