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A Better America

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Siggy_23, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. Xiao Xiong

    Xiao Xiong Prince

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    Well....

    How about purchase workers in cities at half price and that cost no maintenance, until the industrial era?

    Historical accuracy!
     
  2. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    How about +1% production bonus in cities for each unique luxury connected. Sounds about right.
     
  3. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    That's what I don't get. Why should America get changed when nearly half the civs are in a worse position?
     
  4. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    Actually, I wish Civ would play a bit "dirtier." I think glossing over slavery ( Americans, Ottomans, Romans, etc. ) is actually vaguely more offensive than representing it. The whitewashing is unnecessary ( and they don't avoid the topic in, for instance, Europa Universalis and Total War. )

    Not saying America should have a slavery specific power ( that's really just a bash, let's be honest ) but slavery in general should be a valid strategy in Civ5.

    Well, at least we finally got inquisitors in the unmodded game. That's something.
     
  5. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    You mean like enslaving the AI and CS Workers on turns 20 and 30 respectively?
     
  6. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Want it or not, slavery was a major economic force of our history. But Civ5 is a "politically correct" game, so no slavery :)
     
  7. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Warlord

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    America is fine. Its bonuses are good for newer players because they are easy to understand. Since Ancient/Classical warfare is toned down in BNW, the Minuteman actually looks fairly decent. Civs with modern+ UUs are always at a bit of a disadvantage imo (the game is probably effectively already over at that point). Not every Civ needs to be a synergistic powerhouse.

    There were some slavery-related effects in Civ 4, if I recall correctly. Wasn't pop-rush some sort of "beat your slaves" mechanic that was tied to being in the proper (despotic) governing system? Its been awhile since Civ 4 for me.

    Yeah, slavery was a big part of history. But Civ 5 is a game, not a history lesson. Honestly, even though I know its historical significance, I'm not really comfortable actually DOING the enslavement, even if it is just in a video game.
     
  8. Keirador

    Keirador Deity

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    Zing! Love it. Especially the happiness bonus for Gun Shops in cities with religion.
     
  9. Keirador

    Keirador Deity

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    I agree, but I'd side with more of the Civs being changed. Something I really like about Civ 5 is that with truly UNIQUE abilities (rather than the trait combinations of Civ4), you can get really different gameplay to the point where it's hard to say which Civs are best. . . they tend to just be best for a specific player or style of play. Sure, some consistently rank near the top, but the differences aren't vast. Nobody thinks America, Germany, the Ottomans, a few more I could throw out, are top-tier Civs. I think with more player feedback and more balancing, we could actually get all the Civs in the same sort of "different but not necessarily better or worse" tier that I think MOST Civs are already in.


    . . . err, like the American Revolution?
     
  10. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

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    Technically it uses the word "enslave" when demanding a worker as tribute, but that's as far as it goes, and of course it is actually a worker, same way rebels are actually barbarians.
     
  11. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

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    Exactly.

    Civilization with the anti-PC of a Paradox game would be perfect.

    But yeah, stealing a few workers is a weaksauce implementation of slavery. Civ4 slavery was pretty mediocre as well, but it all but vanished from Civ5.

    Remember the spontaneous, temporary "slave" resource from Rome: Total War? That would be a nice touch in Civ, no?

    Razing cities? Fine. Killing millions? Fine. Literally adopting fascism and conquering the entire world? Dude, that's a fun afternoon there! Nukes? Awesome! The countless implied war rapes every time you conquer a city? :popcorn: Literally annihilating entire cultures to get more cities? Where do I sign up!

    Slavery? OMG! NOT EVEN IN A VIDEO GAME! :nono:

    Slavery is obviously evil, but that just means it fits in with the hundreds of other evil things I do in an average Civ session. The devs singling it out is a gutless cave-in to shallow knee-jerk reactions.
     
  12. troublmaker

    troublmaker Warlord

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    You leave my minutemen alone!
     
  13. Arachnofiend

    Arachnofiend Perturbed Pugilist

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    The Redcoats were among the worst of the European powers, really. England's dominance came from its navy; you'd look towards France and Prussia for the true land powers of the era (one of which was training and supplying our armies).

    America's military success has been more about our isolated location and incredible ability to produce than anything else. Our one big win against an equal power was Japan, and even then that was just as much about the smaller nation running out of resources as anything else.
     
  14. Tiggurix

    Tiggurix Warlord

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    Well, first of all, it's not really a good idea to design a Civ to be powerful in the late-game, because, by the time their bonuses kick in, the game may already be lost, because the advantages of the Civs which get bonuses in the early game, "snowball" into more and stronger advantages later in the game. I believe you already know that.

    As to how I would change America... Well, I don't think they're in much need of buffing, but if I'd change something, it would be the UA. Giving it an extra feature to keep in theme with the "land grab" aspect of it, I'd probably buff their :c5production: of Settlers, and do as others have suggested and make it so the production of Settlers doesn't stop the growth of their cities. Or give them a discount to the :c5gold: price of purchasing Settlers and Workers, in keeping with the theme of the UA that "money matters". Or give their Settlers, and perhaps Workers, a bonus to :c5moves:, and/or the ability to ignore movement penalties from difficult terrain, like the Scout. Or perhaps just do the simplest change, and make it so their UA also reduces the :c5culture: cost of acquiring new tiles. Probably not by as much, though, like make it so the cost of acquiring new tiles by :c5culture: is reduced by just 25%.
     
  15. evilcat

    evilcat Warlord

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    Maybe +2:c5gold: per plantacion before industrial era, and +1:c5gold: per specialist from industrial era?
    Plays nice with buythetile perk, and extra money always helps. Early game gives motivacion for land grab or exploration to find more plantacion spot, while late game will value freedom, commerce, and privat property.
     
  16. HaloCapella

    HaloCapella Chieftain

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    actually, Civ 5 does have slavery, its just that they dont say it has them. I'd think Unemployed Citizens would definitely fit as slaves. Cmon, why are they called Unemployed when they technically be at no benefit for you?
     
  17. Siggy_23

    Siggy_23 Chieftain

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    Yeah I had that in mind, i guess my suggestion just didnt go far enough with the buff.

    It isnt in dispute that UBs which come later need to be better because you have them for fewer turns of the game. My question is, do UUs also need a similar buff? because you have them for around the same number of turns as everyone else . . .

    So say the average upgrade to the warrior is 10% better (i know it isnt but just for example) and this civ has an upgrade to WWI Great War Infantry (again just for example) you'll have them for around the same number of turns, and you should probably have more of them making it a bigger buff anyway, does your UU need to also be more than 10% better?

    My gut tells me yes, but im not sold on the idea . . .

    well my original question was "How would you make a super late blooming, economy focused civ?"

    I choose America just because it seemed fitting; if you think a civ would be more fitting for that role than America, how would you change that civ?
     
  18. That Other Guy

    That Other Guy Chieftain

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    I think general consensus is that a super late blooming civ won't be balanced, because late-blooming can't compete with the snowballing from an earlier civ unless it's so good that it's practically an instant-win for surviving until endgame.
     
  19. Detroitdregs

    Detroitdregs Chieftain

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    I think America is fine, but if it were to be changed: I'd focus on making America the "Wide" to India's "Tall".

    UU: Pioneer, replaces Settler AND Scout. Scouts which can settle cities, slightly weaker, slightly higher cost.

    -They may cost a little more, but they don't need escorts and multitask.

    UU: Predator Drone: Replaces Bomber? Jet Fighter? Cheaper to produce, Resource Independent (similar to the German UU w/ pikemen).

    UA: Manifest Destiny: 25% less Unhappiness for Number of Cities, 25% greater unhappiness from Population. Cities which share cultural Boundaries produce 25% less unhappiness if they share an Ideology, 25% more if they have a different Ideology.

    -Opposite India Lite, reinforces Pioneers, late game additional bonus (fitting to the USA I think).

    Gives a broad amount of benefits over many Eras.
     
  20. True_Candyman

    True_Candyman Emperor

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    Not to mention the America wasn't exactly alone in that war, France, Spain and the Netherlands all went to war with the UK too!

    As for Japan, they were by no means an equal power to America. Even supposing they were, Japan was already completely bigged down against the Chinese over a 1000+ mile frontier, against the British and their Indian armies in Burma, and then against the Americans in the pacific. The Americans were virtually fighting almost exclusively in the pacific until they'd gained the upper hand.

    Some kind of production bonus would be better then i think. But frankly, America's good how it is. Late game warwonger based on exploration and land grabbing. It's a solid civ as it is, and probably one of the best civs across all map types. :goodjob:
     

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