A Better America

[Leugi]

Questions to those who have mod experience:
How hard is to mode/add so that growth/food value change when:
a ) DoF signed?
b ) Has trade route?

I think its fairly possible... The first one would have to check each turn if it has a DoF and then add a dummy building for extra growth... I think its possible to make Trade Routes have an extra yield too...

Though, this would be my personal favorite:

UA: Manifest Destiny: +1 Sight for combat Units. +10% Tourism to civilizations you have a trade route with. Upon the discovery of Industrialization receive 3 Great Merchants.
UU: Minuteman: Stays as it is
UU: Pioneer: Replacement for Settler, ignores terrain cost. After founding a city, the Pioneer stays alive and may Culture Bomb (it may not found another city)

 

[Luziadus]

the title of this thread seems a american political propaganda.

 

[civvver]

I'd leave the UA as is. Replace B-17 with a UB:

Ellis Island (replaces Seaport): Gives +10% food and +2 culture

You could call it immigration center or something else if Ellis Island is too specific.

 

[quantum42]

Replace National College with National Academy of Science with a bonus of 10-20% additional science.
The B-17 should also get a defense bonus of 10-20HP.
A bonus, UA, etc. for immigration is a good idea.
Pioneers with defense abilities and extra movement is good also.
Note: in 2000, the US actually was not in debt.

 

[Siggy_23]

Now, I'm not an American myself, but I'm pretty sure every genuinely patriotic American Civ player (which I bet there's a few of) would be outraged at such a UA. It's certainly not something to be proud of, as a country.

I do like your suggestion regarding the B17, though.

Im not sure, Im an american and I have a fairly good sense of humor about our debt. It isnt strictly a bad thing anyway, we need a way to control our own supply of money.

Anyway I guess I should have stated my goal at the beginning. I would love to see a super late game, very econ focused civ. For me America fits the bill because, if im not mistaken, we are the youngest world power (only 237 years old or so). And one of the most distinct things about the United States is our economy which, until recent years, has been extremely strong.

I wanted to keep the B-17 because the flying fortress was one of the iconic american weapons of WWII that helped us become a major world power.

I chose the stock market mechanic because, again I was pushing the civ toward an econ focus, I thought it made sense, and I didnt want to make it overpowered (I guess I succeeded).

This is the same reason I chose the UA, I wanted the civ to be very econ focused throughout the game.

So i guess im asking the question. How would you make a super late blooming, economy focused civ?

 

[headcase]

Fine idea but I like the U.S's current UA a lot. I love the extra sight. The gold purchases fit nicely and I think the strategy of it would actually be diminished if the discount was more powerful. If they changed Minutemen to a UB, that might be good.

It is asking too much (outside of mods), but I would love to see 2 UUs and 1UB\UI\UNW for all civs. By giving the US a solid UB (like the Mall) and keeping the rest the same, they could become a competitive civ.

The following ideas I've heard are nice too, it's just that I don't want to lose a current UA and don't want to give a third one either:
- faster settlers
- settlers don't stop growth
- Free SP upon earning first SP (I made that one up and it probably shows)
- (from this thread) receive a small number of apples from each international trade route (like +2 and another +1 for every 3 eras or something like that. At the end, 9 routes X 5 apples = 45 apples across your cities if all are international).

National Debt would be some fun. Strictly speaking, having 0 gold in Civ means you ran out of the economic power that lets you do the things that gold lets you do. I imagine any high ranked civ with low gold to have a lot of debt when roleplaying. It would still be fun, I just think it would be better as a US mod civ than the official one.

1111th post!

 

[Princeofnigeria]

I think america is perfectly fine as it is, and only a small buff MIGHT be necassary, something like "1 extra delagate during normal world congress and UN meetigs" (thus they would not get te extra delegate during world leader votes or when electing new leaders for WC/UN) in addition to their existing ability to show the US' diplomatic tendancies.

 

[King_Course]

I feel like the American civ needs to be updated; their UA is situational at best, and its UUs seem a bit historically inaccurate.

Yes the americans did have minutemen in that era, and yes they were sometimes effective but they were far from culture defining, and their history of failure far outweighs their successes, even George Washington himself held a poor opinion on these militia forces.

Additionally, the B17 didnt carry more bombs than the other bomber of its day, the B17 was famed for its survivability against both air and ground defenses.

My Proposal

• Change the B17; remove the siege promotion and give it a resist to ground based AA similar to its Evasion promotion.
• Change the minuteman to a UB the NYSE (i know, but i cant think of a better name) It would give +0.1% extra gold for every other stock exchange in the game.
• Change the UA to "National Debt" - You can spend your way into a deficit at the cost of 2% interest, and national unhappyness (based on the average cost of units at the time)

To explain the national debt power a little more in depth, perhaps an example:

Youre in the classical era and your empire is making 4 gold per turn; you need another warrior right now to defend against that barbarian coming into your territory, but you only have 100 gold. You can spend the 200 gold to get that warrior now but the game will charge you 2% (2 gpt) on your borrowed 100 gold to have that warrior now.

Also you get +1 unhappyness for going into debt

Thoughts?

National debt should only work for aircraft carriers. As in, when your debt is down to a trillion, you can rushbuy another carrier. Just because 11 is not enough.

On a more serious note, they could buff USA a little. Perhaps by giving them a free settler when they research horseback riding. Trying to emulate the big move west of course. Of course "buying land" is supposed to be reminiscent of that, but they could have both.

 

[SolDelta]

I think Manifest Destiny is a great theme that isn't followed through with in the rest of the design choices. Why not something like...

Manifest Destiny: Each city provides +1 gold and +1 happiness. Gold bonus becomes +2 with banking, +3 with economics. Internal trade routes are 25% more effective.
UU: Pioneer (replaces settler). Does not stop city growth when being built. +1 sight and +1 movement for both itself and any military unit sharing its tile. Pioneer matches the base speed of its escort before this bonus is applied.
UU: B17 (as normal.)

This civ would greatly benefit from settling many cities, expanding across the map by settling and conquest from an early age. The happiness/gold bonus combined with trade routes and liberty makes wide play much more forgiving, and the buffed settler inspires a frontier style rapid aquisition without too much focus on sustainability. Theoretically you could even just bring pioneers along to support your army to mimic the original Manifest Destiny UA, with a movement buff to make up for the opportunity cost of having to devote hammers to it. Your wide empires economy grows considerably by focusing on money, with the extra gpt multiplying out with every new money building. By stock exchanges, you're going to have a very strong economy. The bonus to internal trade routes is an attempt to create an isolationist mentality, particularly early on as you establish your cities, which can then be switched to a worldwide economic powerhouse with ease.

Just in time for the B17. 'murka.

Also 'National Debt' seems like a really poor unique ability. For one, it isn't unique, and secondly its barely even an ability.

 

[HaloCapella]

I think Manifest Destiny is a great theme that isn't followed through with in the rest of the design choices. Why not something like...

Manifest Destiny: Each city provides +1 gold and +1 happiness. Gold bonus becomes +2 with banking, +3 with economics. Internal trade routes are 25% more effective.
UU: Pioneer (replaces settler). Does not stop city growth when being built. +1 sight and +1 movement for both itself and any military unit sharing its tile. Pioneer matches the base speed of its escort before this bonus is applied.
UU: B17 (as normal.)

This civ would greatly benefit from settling many cities, expanding across the map by settling and conquest from an early age. The happiness/gold bonus combined with trade routes and liberty makes wide play much more forgiving, and the buffed settler inspires a frontier style rapid aquisition without too much focus on sustainability. Theoretically you could even just bring pioneers along to support your army to mimic the original Manifest Destiny UA, with a movement buff to make up for the opportunity cost of having to devote hammers to it. Your wide empires economy grows considerably by focusing on money, with the extra gpt multiplying out with every new money building. By stock exchanges, you're going to have a very strong economy. The bonus to internal trade routes is an attempt to create an isolationist mentality, particularly early on as you establish your cities, which can then be switched to a worldwide economic powerhouse with ease.

Just in time for the B17. 'murka.

Also 'National Debt' seems like a really poor unique ability. For one, it isn't unique, and secondly its barely even an ability.

I'd think the "Internal trade routes are 25% more effective." would only be the best replacement for the tile discount.

 

[Misanthrop]

i have some ideas for america too:

BIG BROTHER: enemy counter spies in friendly nations can't prevent tech steal if america's army size is bigger than theirs
UB: fast food restaurant: +1 happiness, +1 food, 5% chance of one citizen dying (from obesity) each turn
UU: freedom force: can spread american ideology (makes nations with different ideology unhappier), 5% chance of getting blown up in hostile countries

 

[Princeofnigeria]

i have some ideas for america too:

BIG BROTHER: enemy counter spies in friendly nations can't prevent tech steal if america's army size is bigger than theirs
UB: fast food restaurant: +1 happiness, +1 food, 5% chance of one citizen dying (from obesity) each turn
UU: freedom force: can spread american ideology (makes nations with different ideology unhappier), 5% chance of getting blown up in hostile countries

Huh, perhaps it is my ignorance, but it almost seems like you don't LIKE America... Or know how American technological advancement was almost entirely self perpetuating apart from initial european investmet, with little "Stealing" involved and rather an influx of fairly traded technologies and an outpouring of new innovations. Also you may not know this but -GASP!- other countries have local fast food places, in fact the vast majority of them do! In fact, fast food wasn't even an American invention! It was made by Romans due to the fact that they had a high population and a low amount of individual storage space. Wowee, this must be a surge of enlightening info for such an ingenious fellow such as you huh?

 

[Misanthrop]

perhaps it is my ignorance

if you say so...

with little "Stealing" involved and rather an influx of fairly traded technologies and an outpouring of new innovations.

little KNOWN stealing (which gives me an idea for a new unit: the "whistleblower" could be the information era counter to the american spy) - well apart from the stealing of scientists obviously...

other countries have local fast food places

guess what, other countries have coffee houses and stelae too.

fast food wasn't even an American invention! It was made by Romans

so what? the sling was not an incan invention, the longbow not an english invention and the tank not a german invention. you can still be best known for it even if it wasn't your invention - and it can still affect you the most, look up the obesity rate in italy and compare it to yours.

a surge of enlightening info for such an ingenious fellow such as you huh?

nah, more like a surge of inconsistent and defensive drivel to be honest but well, you tried.

 

[isau]

How about giving America a replacement for the Great General that allows it to grab 2 rings of land instead of 1 when it places a citadel?

 

[SolDelta]

Hahahaha oh man if we're making this a truly modern America...

UA: Hearts and Minds - 50% bonus to tourism to countries you are friends with, and +5% growth for every declaration of friendship or defensive pact you are in. From the Atomic Era onwards, every war you enter accomplishes nothing of importance. Your units get a +20% to combat strength if invading a country that has more than 5 units of Oil.
UB: Gun Shop - replaces military academy. +15 exp to newly trained units and +2 happiness. An extra +2 happiness and +2 faith if your city has adopted a religion.
UU: Drone. Replaces guided missile. Can enter lands without open borders, but will incur a diplomatic penalty. Can launch a one time strike on any unit, but is not consumed after this.

 

[Misanthrop]

How about giving America a replacement for the Great General that allows it to grab 2 rings of land instead of 1 when it places a citadel?

have you ever played multiplayer? i think these culturebomb citadels are already a very unpleasant mechanic but this would be... gamebreaking - you couldnt even steal citadels back that way.

 

[thundercles]

some of these ideas i took from previous posts. there arent very many civs out there that focus on rapid expansion so i think America should stay focused on that. All of the abilities are dedicated to expanding and getting new cities running ASAP. I think this is a good focus to have for a frontier nation that has spent most of its history expanding.

UA: Manifest Destiny
+1 sight for all land units and +10% growth for cities with an external trade route
UU: Pioneer Settler (Unique settler)
+1 movement and may defend
UU: Pioneer worker (Unique worker)
-20% build cost and may defend

I think these are good replacements and make the civ much more unique while not going totally crazy with changes. Manifest desinty allows scouting of good city locations quickly, and growing them. It represents land surveying projects like louis and clark and immigration.

Pioneer Settlers (unique settler) replace the b-17 and allow quick, cheap, and independent settling of cities. The b-17 isnt very good, comes too late, and isnt thematic. A fast defensible settler is evocative of the constant expansion westward into uncivilized territory.

Pioneer workers (unique worker) replace the minuteman and allow quick upgrade of tiles. I think they are a good replacement because they still give they feel of an irregular defensive unit. they are available all game and will allow fast upgrade of tiles by being less threatened by barbarians. In times of desperation, they can also help defend cities during an invasion. This is evocative of militiamen from the earliest Indian wars to the battle of new orleans to modern times (can you imagine an enemy army trying to occupy a modern american city full of firearms collectors?).

i think these are good changes, but i would like any one else's opinion.

 

[aljung]

I would have American settlers start with a promotion called Wagon Train that gives them +1 movement and the ability to defend, so you can send them to cross large reaches of land without a military escort. I would be satisfied with that one addition.

I like this idea. A unique and useful bonus that makes sense.

Apart from that I think America should have well rounded UAs. Perhaps give them some bonus with great people like "gain a golden age for 1 turn after a great person appears".

 

[BSPollux]

There are several civs worse then america. either all of them should be upgrade or none.

And if it gets changed, it should get a bonus when fighting weaker civs, to reflect its history.

 

[Luziadus]

i have some ideas for america too:

BIG BROTHER: enemy counter spies in friendly nations can't prevent tech steal if america's army size is bigger than theirs
UB: fast food restaurant: +1 happiness, +1 food, 5% chance of one citizen dying (from obesity) each turn
UU: freedom force: can spread american ideology (makes nations with different ideology unhappier), 5% chance of getting blown up in hostile countries