A Bible-Based Definition of Marriage Amendment

[Peri]

Right let me get this straight PT.
It is perfectly right and proper for good American Christians to pick and choose what bits from the bible they want to obey and anything they don't like they can ignore. Is that right?

 

[classical_hero]

Right let me get this straight PT.
It is perfectly right and proper for good American Christians to pick and choose what bits from the bible they want to obey and anything they don't like they can ignore. Is that right?

Here is what the Bible says about divorce.

Deuteronomy 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.
6 No man shall take the nether or the upper millstone to pledge: for he taketh a man's life to pledge.
Matthew 19: 3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

I like the disciples reaction to what the Lord said. They thought that it would be better not to be married then. The only reason God allows divorce is because we are human at times that means we are lousy choosers of people. With regards to point two, that is then a direct contradict of what one should be. God from the beginning meant for marriage to be between one man and one woman. Jesus quotes from Genesis chapter 2:23-24.

1. Marriage in the U.S. shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Genesis 29:17; II Samuel 3:2-5)

What you have got is incorrect for #1. #1 should read as following. "Marriage shall consist of a union between one man and one woman." I have crossed out the [or more bit because it is unbiblical. #2 only existed because God permitted them to do that. They were in violation of God's law and as a result there were many problems associated with having more than one wife, but God can change a situation that man has pu himself in that is wrong and still be able to be to be glorified. So that means that #2 is out.

2. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take condubines in addition to his wife or wives. (II Samuel 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chronicles 11:21)

3. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

I have absolutely nothing wrong with this. God places such a high standard on marriage that he expects the two participants to be sexually pure. It is easy to see if a woman is not a virgin, but it is much harder to tell if a guy is still a virgin, unless he confesses that he is. I'll confess now and say that I am a virgin and will be so until I marry. God has said this about marriage.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

It is hardly understandable why marriage is being attacked to fervantly because once you have destroyed the values of marriage, then you have detroyed the foundation of society.

4. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden. (Genesis 24:3; Numbers 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12)

This one does not need to be part of any amendment because it is hard to tell who is a believer and who is not, but God commands Christian to not marry unbelievers. This one cannot be for a government to do because it would then infringe on the right of a person to chose who they want to marry. It is the Christians choice that (s)he should not marry a non-believer, but that has happened in the past and will happen. This again goes down to the purity of the two participants. God does not want those who have fellowship with him to be married to those who have fellowship with the devil.

2 Corinthians 6: 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

5. Since marriage is for life, no federal or state constitution or law shall be construed to permint divorce. (Deuteronomy 22:19; Mark 10:3)

That is what God prefers but God does allow divorce to happen because man's heart is harden to the things of the Lord. Please see my intro to more on this part.

6. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe. (Genesis 38:6-10; Deuteronomy 25:5-10)

This one have significance if you understand the issues behind this law. I shall quote one of the verses that you have supplied because this gives us the reason behind this law.

Deuteronomy 25: 6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.

The purpose of this law so that no man would ever leave his inheritance behind for noone to claim and that the family line would never die out. This was a protectionistic law for the family of the dead man.

As you can see that once you put the Bible in it's correct usage, then you'll understand what it say, and not take it out of context to serve your purpose. The Bible is against any form of sex outside of marriage and changing the definition will not change what God has defined marriage as. Since he instituted marriage, he must be the final authority for our views on marriage.

 

[Evie]

Please.

God did not invent marriage, for the simple and very good reason that marriage existed all over the world long before judaism made its appearance (EVEN if you follow biblical reasoning : by biblical reasoning, judaism did not exist until Abraham, thus no humans were following the word of God until then). Had god invented marriage, then that would mean he spoke to humans and told them what to do long before he revealed himself to Abraham.

And that's goign WITH the literal biblical reading. With any sort of reason-based (as opposed to faith-based) reading that take into account what history and science have to tell us, your notion gets even worse, because Judaism is relatively young compared to, say, Egypt, Mesopotamia and so on.

Marriage, the notion of a formal contract binding together two individuals (and, for most of history, their families), most certainly did not originate for religious reason, but for social ones. It was a formal way of saying "These two are tied, and so are our two families tied" to the community at large. The only reason religion was involved was because people, in these days, wanted virtually all their social contracts and declarations under the blessing of the then all-pervasive gods. The same could have been said of military alliances and the ilk (and often business venture) : you asked for the relevant god to bless your contract/treaty/venture, because it was then believed gods could and would affect those things if they saw fit.

Marriage does not belong to religion any more than the other social constructs, and it most certainly does NOT belong to a specific religion. Or do you really mean for us to believe the inane notion that there were no marriages in the world until God saw fit to reveal himself to Abraham?

 

[Peri]

Ok then what is this way to tell if a woman is a virgin then?
I know I am going to regret asking this but I would love to know

 

[Mauer]

God did not invent marriage, for the simple and very good reason that marriage existed all over the world long before judaism made its appearance (EVEN if you follow biblical reasoning : by biblical reasoning, judaism did not exist until Abraham, thus no humans were following the word of God until then). Had god invented marriage, then that would mean he spoke to humans and told them what to do long before he revealed himself to Abraham.

Marriage does not belong to religion any more than the other social constructs, and it most certainly does NOT belong to a specific religion. Or do you really mean for us to believe the inane notion that there were no marriages in the world until God saw fit to reveal himself to Abraham?

All of this is absolutely correct. That is, if the true God was invented along with Judaism. Since God was not invented, and has always been, then marriage is from God.

 

[Blasphemous]

Mauer, if so, how did he give marriage to humanity, and when? Apparently it's much earlier than he gave his chosen people the rest of his rules, and there are no known accounts of contact with Yehovah (that's how it's pronounced*) before Abraham.

*And it's a mixture of the words for "will be", "has been", and "present", or rather the "will have" form of the word "present". Kinda cool wordgame really.

 

[cgannon64]

Bush's first amendment simply defined marriage as a man and a woman, and it was resoundly defeated. What makes you think he'll make it more extreme now? (A constitional amendment needs 2/3 of the Senate to make it to the states, I beleive, which means some Democrats would have to support it.) And what makes you think he'll endorse old Jewish laws that even the Catholic church doesn't enforce?

 

[muppet]

All of this is absolutely correct. That is, if the true God was invented along with Judaism. Since God was not invented, and has always been, then marriage is from God.

Absolutely!

God is the creator of all things.. man.. Woman.. heaven.. earth.. marriage... physics, biology, medicine, genetics, evolution, and homosexuality.

 

[Peri]

Absolutely!

God is the creator of all things.. man.. Woman.. heaven.. earth.. marriage... physics, biology, medicine, genetics, evolution, and homosexuality.

You heretic :devil2:
The devil created evolution and homosexuality to test the righteousness of his followers. That is why there are more homosexuals in democrat areas because democrats like homosexuals are sinful.

 

[Mauer]

Mauer, if so, how did he give marriage to humanity, and when? Apparently it's much earlier than he gave his chosen people the rest of his rules, and there are no known accounts of contact with Yehovah (that's how it's pronounced*) before Abraham.

*And it's a mixture of the words for "will be", "has been", and "present", or rather the "will have" form of the word "present". Kinda cool wordgame really.

If you read, especially in Genesis, you will see that God talked with Adam, Enoch and others. Pre Abraham that is. Also in Genesis chapter 2 you will see that God set the boundaries of marriage beginning with Adam and Eve.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Woman because she was taken out of man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife; and they were not ashamed.

I don't really understand what you mean about word games . You don't have to point it out, but I apologize if it seemed that's what I was doing.

 

[Blasphemous]

Oh, I forgot about Adam and Eve... Speaking of those two, do you take the story literally, so as to say that their children either mated with eachother or with their parents to create the third generation, and that this inbreeding continued until there were enough humans for families to form?

Wordplay, not wordgame... Whoops. What I meant is just that it's a witty name to call a deity, it implies that it has always been, it is, and it always will be.

 

[wilbill]

#1 should read as following. "Marriage shall consist of a union between one man and one woman." I have crossed out the [or more bit because it is unbiblical.

Unbiblical? Here are a few references to polygamy in the Bible which seem to say it's okay (or at least tolerated by God) : Gen.4:19, Gen.16:1-4, Gen.25:6, Gen.26:34, Gen.28:9. Gen.31:17. Ex.21:10, Dt.21:15, Judges 8:30, 1 Sam.1:1-2, 2 Sam.12:7-8. 1 Kg.11:2-3, 1 Chr.4:5, 2 Chr.11:21, 2 Chr.13:21, 2 Chr.24:3, Mt.25:1, 1 Tim.3:2, Titus 1:6-7.

I'm sure you can find a lot of references partial to monogamy. Which argument trumps the other? Polygamy may not be currently popular, but it's certainly not "unbiblical".

 

[wilbill]

Bush's first amendment simply defined marriage as a man and a woman, and it was resoundly defeated. What makes you think he'll make it more extreme now? (A constitional amendment needs 2/3 of the Senate to make it to the states, I beleive, which means some Democrats would have to support it.) And what makes you think he'll endorse old Jewish laws that even the Catholic church doesn't enforce?

Tongue-in-Cheek adj : amusing in tone; "facetious remarks"; "tongue-in-cheek advice" [syn: bantering, facetious] adv 1: in a bantering fashion; 2: not seriously ; [syn: facetiously, jokingly]

 

[cgannon64]

I'm sorry WillBill; what used to be facetious is usually serious now. :sigh:

 

[Mauer]

Oh, I forgot about Adam and Eve... Speaking of those two, do you take the story literally, so as to say that their children either mated with eachother or with their parents to create the third generation, and that this inbreeding continued until there were enough humans for families to form?

Hmm, I'm pretty sure those were the only options for them at the time

 

[Hamlet]

Since God was not invented, and has always been, then marriage is from God.

If you're proceeding on the logic that 'All that exists and has existed comes from god', then, say, genocide also comes from God, to name but one undesirable activity. I'm not sure how this clarifies what we should and should not hold to be immoral, though.

If that isn't your logic, then what is?

 

[Mauer]

If you're proceeding on the logic that 'All that exists and has existed comes from god', then, say, genocide also comes from God, to name but one undesirable activity. I'm not sure how this clarifies what we should and should not hold to be immoral, though.

If that isn't your logic, then what is?

Genocide is obviously a sinful act, which He did not create.
their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
I just quoted this to make a point that all men have a conscience, knowing good from evil. Which also means that you and I know good and evil, it is just a matter of what we make excuses for.
You know God is not responsible for sinful acts, such as genocide, as well as I do.

 

[Hamlet]

which He did not create.

How come? I thought God was the ultimate creator of everything.

You know God is responsible for sinful acts, such as genocide, as well as I do.

I assume this is a typo, but simply asserting blandly that 'God isn't responsible for X because we know God is nice' doesn't really cut any mustard with me. I don't know what 'nice' means in the context of God. God, according to the old testament, regularly employs genocide as a method himself, so I don't know what the precise foundation is here.

Frankly I don't know what God is or is not responsible, and personally, I don't really give a damn, since I don't believe in god. I just want to understand what your argument is.

I think the main issue here is, that whatever the theological argument, marriage has at various points been a non-Christian and a non-religious institution - within Christianity's lifetime, incidentally.

 

[Mauer]

I think the main issue here is, that whatever the theological argument, marriage has at various points been a non-Christian and a non-religious institution - within Christianity's lifetime, incidentally.

Well then..............We have different sources of truth. I have a God who designed marriage for a man and his wife. You.......well, you have some sort of standard with seemingly no foundation. If you do have a foundation for your belief, then it is not necessarily explained which is ok. I am assuming, that you do not believe in the creator, and have no boundaries for human behavior except those which are created by the minds of men. These of course would be ever changing with the times and circumstances.

So it would be safe to say, that there is absolutely no way for the two of us to agree unless one of us changes our minds. I do not decide who marries who, or in what manner, for how long etc.etc.etc. I can however, vote and voice my opinion to my representatives in alignment with my beliefs. Thank you President Bush, Senators John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchinson, as well as Representative Ralph Hall.

 

[King Alexander]

I'm sure you can find a lot of references partial to monogamy. Which argument trumps the other? Polygamy may not be currently popular, but it's certainly not "unbiblical".

I certainly wouldn't want to go against the Bible in these matters.