A couple of unrelated points/questions.

[Thunderbrd]

Sabbatean culture has been discussed so fair enough, but reinstate their units without the cultural requirement (who cares if the icon has an incorrect symbol?).

EE... units without such a requirement become basic core units and that's never going to work for 'heroes'. They need a culture to be based on so maybe there's still yet one they can be assigned to.

Who here has made a new culture? Currently none of you can same as me. I don't want cultures deleted. There's only one player crying and you all are being too accommodating. I'll save deleted stuff for later.

In all honesty, cultures are fairly easy to setup and define. Units, on the other hand, are tough. I'm working on a lot myself at the moment. Perhaps later we can revisit some of the ideas that are being removed but if a culture serves no purpose in the game but to be there, why have it there? I wasn't really familiar with either Leon nor Castile but if y'all feel that they are justified as cultures, sure, we can keep them or just disable them temporarily until someone decides on what a good unit to define them would be.

I'd suggest adding a single generic-looking Hero King unit per kingdom to solve that problem - IF there were any famous kings to begin with (EDIT: Wiki shows plenty of them to choose from, can be even more than one).
Magos should be attached to Zoroastrianism and have its icon edited to remove the wrong flag (not much of a work, really).
Sheba simply needs to be attached to, dunno, the Ethiopian culture, I guess? She's fine as she is, as of everything else.

Good luck with that sort of monster project tho.

 

[Yudishtira]

EE... units without such a requirement become basic core units and that's never going to work for 'heroes'. They need a culture to be based on so maybe there's still yet one they can be assigned to.

Lots of cultures have two heroes so it's really no problem at all finding one to add her to.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Are not all Cultures now directly from Sparth? And if so iirc all his cultures had units attached when 1st implemented.

Question: Have we now reached the point where decisions were made to delete a unit or culture because someone/anyone did not agree with it? So now we have broken culture and broken or disconnected Culture Units?

Sparth's work was Massive in scope. So it is entirely possible that he overlooked some of his work to see if it was completed. That said we allowed his Modmod to be included way back then. Just as we have allowed Pepper2000's massive Future Eras Modmod to become integral part of this Mod. Tweaking errors in either Is prudent. But willynilly editing out portions of these included Massive modmods because a player or a modder does not like it does need proper discussion and consensus before action is taken. Just sayin'. Sometimes now we whack before we should. And I'm not saying that polishing and refining should not happen. This can be a 2 edged sword.

 

[Toffer90]

Don't just delete units and cultures, comment them out. However, I agree that the Sabbatean culture WW can be removed, it's not a significant enough culture to be present in C2C.
If you decide to delete units raxo you should ensure that the art files for the unit are removed as well, not sure what you did, or contemplating doing, in that regard, I haven't looked in the git changelog.
Generally we don't delete game content on a whim, we look into how residual stuff can be rearranged if a requirement has been decided to be deleted.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Lots of cultures have two heroes so it's really no problem at all finding one to add her to.

I think we're up for suggestions here.

Are not all Cultures now directly from Sparth? And if so iirc all his cultures had units attached when 1st implemented.

Question: Have we now reached the point where decisions were made to delete a unit or culture because someone/anyone did not agree with it? So now we have broken culture and broken or disconnected Culture Units?

No... I mean, it's considered from various angles, or should be at least. I do think the second culture was a bit of a kneejerk reaction BUT I also realize it was in response to my saying that if a culture doesn't have any units yet, I'm wondering why we'd include it.

Not all cultures are from Sparth but yes, most. Hydro still did a lot of them IIRC.

 

[Blazenclaw]

Question: Have we now reached the point where decisions were made to delete a unit or culture because someone/anyone did not agree with it? So now we have broken culture and broken or disconnected Culture Units?

Strictly speaking it was the combination of the 'culture' not really being a culture, so much as a relatively small religious subset as well as having issues with the flag representing it literally meaning something else entirely (moreover, it was so small as to not have any flag or icon representing it). A poor analogy would be like using the current United States flag to represent the Confederacy; it simply wasn't accurate.

It looks like the change (github link) was to delete everything relative to Sabbateanism, units and buildings and all in the xml (of which there were relatively few), as well as removal of a second culture with no units whatsoever linked to it. No removal of any dds or other art files though, so that should probably be updated to be commented out instead of outright deleted @raxo2222 ?

 

[Yudishtira]

I think we're up for suggestions here.

Aksumite, Himyarite, Kush, Oman, Ophir, Somali, Sudanese, Yemenese.

She's entirely fictional so put her anywhere. Just don't delete her.

 

[raxo2222]

Strictly speaking it was the combination of the 'culture' not really being a culture, so much as a relatively small religious subset as well as having issues with the flag representing it literally meaning something else entirely (moreover, it was so small as to not have any flag or icon representing it). A poor analogy would be like using the current United States flag to represent the Confederacy; it simply wasn't accurate.

It looks like the change (github link) was to delete everything relative to Sabbateanism, units and buildings and all in the xml (of which there were relatively few), as well as removal of a second culture with no units whatsoever linked to it. No removal of any dds or other art files though, so that should probably be updated to be commented out instead of outright deleted @raxo2222 ?

I can add them back, just commented out.

 

[Somebody613]

Sorry for causing an upheaval. My sole point was that Sabbatean was using a wrong flag, everything else simply avalanched afterwards.

 

[Blazenclaw]

Sorry for causing an upheaval. My sole point was that Sabbatean was using a wrong flag, everything else simply avalanched afterwards.

lol no worries, it was a legit distinction, and also raised the point of 'hanging' cultures without content

 

[Somebody613]

lol no worries, it was a legit distinction, and also raised the point of 'hanging' cultures without content

Yeah, that's what YOU say.
Some OTHERS almost attacked me for that, lol.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

lol no worries, it was a legit distinction, and also raised the point of 'hanging' cultures without content

Sparth was working on adding new Cultures. As TB says adding the Culture is quick and easy adding the bits that go with it are more time consuming. Therefore adding a lot of Cultures then working through adding the other things is a good way to work, unless you get burned out or RL happens. Leaving them in in a way that lets them be seen in the pedia but not built is a good way to "remember" that more work is needed.

In theory all Cultures should have at least three of the following:-

• A hero unit that can build Achievements
• A hero unit that can become a Commander (only needed if that game option is on and we could save memory and load times by putting that in their XML definitions)
• a unit valid for at least one "age"
• another unit
• a building
• an extension to an existing building
• a promotion (or promotion line)

For example: one of the Cultures Sparth had special merchant units as a second unit. If it was the primary unit then a promotion given to all existing merchant units might be a better balance choice. I also came up with a solution to special land improvements for workers based on a promotion gained through a Wonder, Culture or Religion.

 

[Somebody613]

Sparth was working on adding new Cultures. As TB says adding the Culture is quick and easy adding the bits that go with it are more time consuming. Therefore adding a lot of Cultures then working through adding the other things is a good way to work, unless you get burned out or RL happens. Leaving them in in a way that lets them be seen in the pedia but not built is a good way to "remember" that more work is needed.

In theory all Cultures should have at least three of the following:-

• A hero unit that can build Achievements
• A hero unit that can become a Commander (only needed if that game option is on and we could save memory and load times by putting that in their XML definitions)
• a unit valid for at least one "age"
• another unit
• a building
• an extension to an existing building
• a promotion (or promotion line)

For example: one of the Cultures Sparth had special merchant units as a second unit. If it was the primary unit then a promotion given to all existing merchant units might be a better balance choice. I also came up with a solution to special land improvements for workers based on a promotion gained through a Wonder, Culture or Religion.

There's still immense potential NOT YET realized in the culture system, and I'm super eager and awaiting to see it unravel eventually.
And yes, promotions and sub-classes are exactly the cheats we are all looking at, lol.

 

[<Nexus>]

I want to create a "gathering" themed wonder - like Lascaux Caves and Altamira are "hunting" themed.
Do you have any ideas, suggestions?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I want to create a "gathering" themed wonder - like Lascaux Caves and Altamira are "hunting" themed.
Do you have any ideas, suggestions?

A lot of the Australian Aborigine art is about science and history, but even that is mostly animals and people. Let us face it you don't have to sneak up on a rock or plant and you probably wont get killed doing so. I am afraid that only the "action movies" of the time have survived .

Perhaps some of the Shara Desert art from when the monsoons reached the north coast and all was green. Again most of it is animals but I think there were plants and landmark things there.