A Deity strategy for Poland - Singing Hussars

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

Just got my second victory with this. This time at Emperor level.
Standard Speed, Size, Continents.
I started in the middle of my continent. Georgia, Russia, AND Scythia forward settled me. I turtled up, with archers and a few warriors, while staying true to the "shopping list". When I pre-built two encampments North and south, then finished them the turn I founded my religion, culture bombing and converting. Once russia and georgia we absorbed into my empire, it was gg ez. The faith train kept rolling and never stopped.
Funny thing, on the other continent, Alexander defended himself with Knights, Xbows, and . . .biplanes. no match for faith bought Winged hussar Armies! Culture is the true warmongering powerhouse because of the power spike at Corps.

Guess I'll make another post when i beat it at Immortal.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Just got my second victory with this. This time at Emperor level.
Standard Speed, Size, Continents.
I started in the middle of my continent. Georgia, Russia, AND Scythia forward settled me. I turtled up, with archers and a few warriors, while staying true to the "shopping list". When I pre-built two encampments North and south, then finished them the turn I founded my religion, culture bombing and converting. Once russia and georgia we absorbed into my empire, it was gg ez. The faith train kept rolling and never stopped.
Funny thing, on the other continent, Alexander defended himself with Knights, Xbows, and . . .biplanes. no match for faith bought Winged hussar Armies! Culture is the true warmongering powerhouse because of the power spike at Corps.

Guess I'll make another post when i beat it at Immortal.

Sounds Great!!

When you do this with Deity/Stand/Stand/Pang Map... post up all your Build Orders and a bunch of information if you have time.
I am interested in reading up on your experience.

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

I'm avoiding doing this strat on Pangaea because it is simply easier. The threat of your military getting destroyed at sea is almost non-existant. In my previous Emperor game, I met resistance on the way to the other continent in the form of Frigates and caravels. I didn't prebuild enough quadriremes (only 5) to form fleets, eventually I was able to field 1 armada and 2 fleets and a handful of solo ships. But only AFTER I had established a foothold on the new world i.e. I bought reinforcement ships with gold from peace deals with the fragmented civs on my home cont.

The other reason I'm sticking with continents is because there is 0 need for the upper part of the tech branch which kind of forces me to tech towards xbows. I don't like that because it removes my ability to build Battering Rams. I recall having Warriors on my available builds ALL game (never researched Iron Working).


Tech order was:
> mining
> (60% of astrology)
> Bronze Working for Iron (provides science and hammers)
> finish astrology if didn't find Natural Wonder
> archery once you have 180 gold and 4 slingers (to upgrade 45 gold a pop on standard speed)
> beeline currency
> horseback
> batter rams
> ancient walls (because you want city range attacks)
> beeline Square Rigging and thats all you will ever need.
! when you can start building quadriremes build/buy one ASAP to boost city ranged strikes
!splash in things you need for luxuries. And settle on top of Irrigation luxuries.
!!! Avoid grabbing the tech that gives Siege Towers like the plague. If you have to backfill, just take the economic techs and things that improve naval movement.

Civics order:
> Beeline Mysticism
> Early Empire (for border enforcement)
> Poli Phi
If rushing Coliseum is feasible
> Games and Res
Else
> Theology for temples
and the rest is explained by the original guide.

build order: Scout > Settler > 4 slingers > maybe a warrior or 2 > Holy Sites for days > holy site stuff
used gold to buy the first builder or settler if you luck out on goodie huts and barb camps.
didn't hard build any builders early on, not enough time for that. Even in classical. When I got my medeival Golden Age, My empire rapidly developed. (Liang + Serfdom + Monumentality GA dedication). Don't waste time rolling over CS unless its really that close and easy. You really don't want to get caught by the AI with your army 5 turns away from the front. I find the +2 to yield in the capital is much better early game anyways; especially from military CS, due to them boosting CIVILIAN and military units. Smash them later if you want.
The rest is in the original guide.

Early policy cards: The 2 yellow Cards. Use agoge when building defensive units need to get a pantheon keep god king until a pantheon.
Pantheon: Although the guide suggest goddess of harvest, I suggest the ones that provide culture on improvements or additional faith.

I'm going to try to win on Immortal now. Will post again with my thoughts!

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

First attempt: Flat Coastal Start with Crater Lake 4 tiles away from where I settled. Did not restart turn 1. Got cornered in by France even though I stole an early settler and builder from them. Couldn't expand past 3 cities.
> Reroll a new map after turn 78.

Second Attempt:
TURN 1 THOUGHTS:
I spawn on a plains hills river next to a mountain. 4 Wheat and 2 Gypsum. I should win this. I'm going to go builder first since it takes only 7 turns to make 3 farms and get agoge early. I'm going to forgo an early scout because the AI founds their second city on turn 7 and there won't be much to find. straight for mining due to mining lux. turn 3 discovered yosemite. change plans to build 2 quarries and 1 farm with first builder to pump out the first settler faster and get to yosemite. got a relic from a goody hut with my warrior turn 8. I have no excuses now.

Turn 157: corps very soon, building a ton of quads, square rigging almost done. Just starting to faith buy Hussars. Everything on the shopping list is done. I missed classical and medeival golden ages, but am about to get one for renn. I didn't go crazy because my neighbor to the north is Sparta, and the other continent has a navy that outclasses mine atm. I'm going to attack with frigate fleets with my prebuilt quads, then support them with gold bought privateers once I've established a foothold. going to stay buddies with sparta because of extremely lucrative trade routes. If they dont attack me first, I can save them for last. I hope I can wipe the other continent fast enough. I intend to raze everything on the way to the capital to handle loyalty issues when I try to hold onto them. Ideally I can breakthru the coastal cities with WH corps and frigate fleets, then faith buy more units in those coastal cities to upgrade to armies.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Wait until you mess with it on Deity.
You will find the shopping list isn't as easy without perfect play and perfect conditions.
If you don't rush to Religion you will risk not getting one.
I have had some great starts but didn't rush my Religion only to get boxed out within one or two turns.

Many times you have to Defend or Attack and that will slow you down as well.
It can be difficult on Deity Pangaea and on Continents unless you are really good at chop abuse.

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

Wait until you mess with it on Deity.
You will find the shopping list isn't as easy without perfect play and perfect conditions.
If you don't rush to Religion you will risk not getting one.
I have had some great starts but didn't rush my Religion only to get boxed out within one or two turns.

Many times you have to Defend or Attack and that will slow you down as well.
It can be difficult on Deity Pangaea and on Continents unless you are really good at chop abuse.

Would saving the first builder exclusively for chopping out the holy site be a good idea?
Any other general tips for what units I should be defending with and how many? on deity​

 

[GeorgeF]

Chopping out first district wastes chop production unless you are really production poor. I use first worker for 3 improvements to get Agog to get your early army. After your holy district I generally find myself running 2-3 projects to get the prophet, and usually I have a settler and a couple of units out already. My first 200 gold generally buys my first builder unless I'm really gold poor and then I'll fit it in somewhere. Once you have your prophet you can hold it until you have several holy sites, AI does not take Choral or DoF in their first 2 beliefs so you can wait before founding.

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

I beat it on Deity Standard Pangea. Funny enough, I found the early game to be even easier than other the other difficulties. The build order was very straightforward. Slinger > slinger > slinger > slinger > slinger . . . > holy site. Got the religion, became unassailable. got a Medieval Heroic Age, all the Ai's that forward settled me got their lands flipped without war. Got hussars and wiped the nearest warmongering civ, and never stopped. wiped the west half of continent with WH. Finished them with Corps, started the east side with corps finished them with armies. I think the game got boring for me again

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I beat it on Deity Standard Pangea. Funny enough, I found the early game to be even easier than other the other difficulties. The build order was very straightforward. Slinger > slinger > slinger > slinger > slinger . . . > holy site. Got the religion, became unassailable. got a Medieval Heroic Age, all the Ai's that forward settled me got their lands flipped without war. Got hussars and wiped the nearest warmongering civ, and never stopped. wiped the west half of continent with WH. Finished them with Corps, started the east side with corps finished them with armies. I think the game got boring for me again

That is interesting. I will try that. No matter what I do I think the game gets boring once the early game is over. Many of these guys finish the game in 90-115 turns anyway so I don't think they have too much time to get bored because the game is over before it starts. My games generally go longer at 225-275 turns which makes the game slog a bit and you have enough time to get bored.

So what did you do with all the slingers? Did you take over a CS right away with slingers and a warrior? Did you upgrade them to archers and take out some of the AI cities? If you are going 5x slingers and holy site you have no time to build a second city or gain some other advantages with the builder/settler B.O. I used to always play 6x slinger and go crush but that kinda changed recently. I find the AI handling it better in some instances. How many cities did you found when you just went on a Culture Flip Rampage? Was your start average or great? I find that Poland doesn't have the best of Starts for the most part. I roll a lot of sub standard starts with them. I am going to mess with the all Slinger into Holy Site strategy though. How did you get your prophet up so fast building 5 Slingers from the Jump into Holy Site. What was your first Government Choice. Were you able to get to the +2 prophet policy card fast enough? Perhaps the AI didn't focus on Religion on that game you played? Sometimes I find the AI either not investing in the Religion early and other times they are pushing hard for it and I have to chop in a Prophet.

These guys are saying they buy a worker with gold but I have always bought Monuments. How did you use your gold. Did you have a lot of trading power? The game is easier if you have 2 Luxes and Horses to trade but for the many starts where you have only 1 lux and nothing else I find it to be more difficult.

Sorry that you got bored and that you found Deity easier than Emperor!?
I guess you are just Too Good!

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Well that worked really good but I had a start surrounded by a bunch of CS's. So I got a lot of Free Culture, Faith and Gold and after that I rolled them all into my empire. This wasn't a difficult strategy because it was basically just roll the CS's and go on from there. I will have to mess with it some more but it does seem easier since you can scout with the Slingers and 5 Slingers plus 1 Warrior can take out CS's pretty easily. Upgrading them into archers is nice as well. I could see some problems when you spawn next to Horse Barbs though and perhaps some aggressive AI that is left untouched.

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

TL;DR Key points
Don't waste time building Monuments and granaries. focus on expansion and protecting them. Don't take mysticism, just work on getting HS out faster while having a military to DEFEND the INEVITABLE AI attack.
=======================================
Here are some details from my Deity run and some explanation of my previous statements:

1. I found Deity easier than Emperor?
> This is because my build order is pretty much fixed into slingers until I can start the first settler then > holy site >
|_> Second city takes over slinger production. Always preplace districts btw.

On emperor, I can be more relaxed about my early defense, but on Deity, it is just not possible. I'm forced to build a bunch of slingers. I do not waste time warring with a CS, as they are valuable trading partners when you need gold in the mid game, and the bonus they provide early is awesome. I focus my first 20-ish turns on getting the 2nd city and a HS out ASAP. I waste time on exploration on lower difficulties. On deity I must be focused on the strategy.

2. What did I do with all my slingers? What about early builders?

Initially, just use them to scout about a 5 tile radius and intercept barb scouts. The large amount that I build is used to raise my Military Score to deter a DoW (they usually do it anyways).
My first builder is either found in a goody hut or sniped from an AI. I will always jump on the chance to steal a worker early. They send in their troops to die, and you either have a free reign to pillage or capture a city. or a sweet peace deal, meaning safe time to move your settler unaccompanied. Don't go overboard on the first war. The AI bonuses are too high still and you don't have any boosts.
If all went reasonably well, I have 2 cities 1 builder, a few slingers/archers, and a holy site. I don't build monuments unless loyalty is an issue. seriously, monuments are a waste early as are granaries. The satellite cities need their first builds to be settlers NOT holy sites (still preplace though).

3. How do I get my prophet up so fast?

Slinger > slinger > settler > slingers(until HS available) / builder if its safe enough to do so > HS
Do NOT rush for the prophet card. Take god king until a pantheon. Use Barbarian Card if you have even 1 camp to clear, +1 hammer card if the barbs are far. Rather than rush Mysticism. Take Agoge and use the last charge of a builder to chop out a military unit and overflow into the HS or settler. once the first HS is up. !!!Start running holy site prayers, and faith buy the prophet if you have to!!!. You can afford to do this because you built so many slingers. Turtle up.
Don't found your religion if it won't cause you to go into a classical GA (it usually won't). Use your prophet as an immortal scout in the meantime. Focus on expansion, put cities even if no fresh water. you will need around 5 - 6 of them for the holy sites (rush them out with magnus).When classical era comes around, take exodus of the evangelist and found your religion once your HS are built. You will auto convert your cities and gain a massive spike in era score.

4. Early Government.

The code of laws era is straightforward. Don't get mysticism on deity its a trap. Agoge or craftmenship is more worth it since you can overflow chop your HS.
Choose Autocracy for the flexibility of having up to 3 yellow or red cards.

5. How do I deal with Poland's tendency to spawn in bad locations?

I often find that poland starts in jungle plains. if you don't have a mining resource it can be awkward beelining bronze. but if you can time bronze to finish around the same time as Astrology, and have some builder charges ready, you can chop out a lot of value from jungle. the extra food helps get settlers out. and the hammers well, its burst production.

6. What do I do with my Archers once I have a few cities and holy sites?

I park them on my borders. Explore the world with generals. Great People don't die when they are "captured", they just conveniently warp back to your nearest. Just play smart and don't get side tracked and don't overcommit on a counter attack if declared against. Their time will come.

7. Builders?

My land stays rather undeveloped for a good portion of the early game. Wait for serfdom, and gold/faith buy workers in a city with Liang. They will catch up. Also, the AI loves giving me free builders.

8. War?

Don't forget to pillage. free yields, and after peace, the AI creates more builders for you to steal.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Nice Write Up TheGreatSleepyOne!
I like that idea of not founding the Religion but using the GP to scout.
You explained the strategy very well of how to go about getting up your core cities.
As usual it seems most strategies do better when you can steal from the AI.
You detour quite a bit from the Original Post.
It seems you follow the shopping list but switch many things around on how to go about things.
What do you like to do with your Gold?
Almost every strategy I have seen or Top Players always buy Monuments with Early Gold.
It seems to me that you are saying to bypass monuments and focus on HS/Shrines.
When do you like to get Monuments online?
What is your normal Tech Path? Do you ever Research Astrology First?
If you stated your Tech Path already I missed it.
Do you like to start with other Governments first to get the Era Score from switching?

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

Nice Write Up TheGreatSleepyOne!
I like that idea of not founding the Religion but using the GP to scout.
You explained the strategy very well of how to go about getting up your core cities.
As usual it seems most strategies do better when you can steal from the AI.
You detour quite a bit from the Original Post.
It seems you follow the shopping list but switch many things around on how to go about things.
What do you like to do with your Gold?
Almost every strategy I have seen or Top Players always buy Monuments with Early Gold.
It seems to me that you are saying to bypass monuments and focus on HS/Shrines.
When do you like to get Monuments online?
What is your normal Tech Path? Do you ever Research Astrology First?
If you stated your Tech Path already I missed it.
Do you like to start with other Governments first to get the Era Score from switching?

Thank you. I will now attempt to briefly answer your questions.
I do detour away from the original post. However, the core of the strategy boils down to having an efficient district in the form of Holy Sites that produce Culture and Faith. With one district taking care of these, you allow yourself flexibility in how you choose to manage your production-economy. Faith lets you buy Great People regardless of intended VC. I detour away from monuments because my shrines are delayed monuments EDIT: that don't require me to be at full loyalty. I spend my gold on civilian units (settler, builder, caravan). I don't like mysticism because I'd rather run God King for the pantheon (map dependent). Monuments are less needed if you miss out on Goddess of Harvest and have to choose a culture pantheon instead. Monuments come online when there is nothing better to spend the hammers or gold on really, would you rather have +2 culture or an other 3 builder charges? Normal tech path is to get mining/AH (resource dependent), research half of astrology, if jungle then bronze else finish astrology. get out an encampment (generals make defending against the ai a little less harrowing).

Did not know about the Era Score from switching! It could fit my gameplay with Poland because they get 1 red card swapped for a wildcard in any gov't.
But thinking about it, I probably wouldn't do it because I chose that gov't for a reason.

 

[GeorgeF]

With this thread reopening I played another time yesterday (Deity). I got a super poor start, no food and nothing much to chop, with Shaka close at hand. I did have Matterhorn 5 tiles away and that saved my bacon. Settled second city on plains hill next to Matterhorn (no fresh water). No food (all plains, tundra, and a sheep in first city) except a 2nd ring rice in second city. I didn't get 4 pop in either city until well into Classical age. I built lots of warriors and slingers/archers. Nowhere else to settle and no second distrcit in either city for a long time. Harvest, Earth Goddess, Forge, and Aurora were all gone so I had to settle for Divine Spark, and that helped because I didn't have to run any projects to get my religion, got my prophet the same turn Shaka showed up with archers and horsemen. DoF and Matterhorn bonuses saved the bacon, was able to hold Shaka off until I got Iron and took 3 cities from Shaka (couldn't push any farther). In a big decision I chose to keep Kabul. Tough decision but it had Harbor/CH/city center triangle all set up and I had no gold, no CHs yet (see no food in first 2 cities). With cash settlement from Shaka was able to turtle to Hussars and am now sweeping the world. With the horrible start Egypt and Persia had musket corps before I had either. I got Hussars the last turn of Medieval, and I cash-bought one for the Reniassance golden age, because the gov building was still 2-3 turns away. But I had about 2000 faith by then and that was enough. I don't know if I'll finish the game, I'm just getting Infantry Armies now and Tank armies are still 20-30 turns away, so its a bit of a slog, I haven't tackled either Egypt or Cyrus yet, have Georgia and a very far behind Nubia too.

Verdict is - a very poor start, not much of a pantheon, no colleseum, still a winning position.

Its very satisifying to having Polish Cavalry sweeping through Germany, taking a city every couple turns, and converting all of them to Judaism.

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

I've been playing a lot of games using the macro build described in this thread i.e. Choral Music + Defender of Faith, and I've found Choral Music to be super strong. I never have to build theatre squares ever. It never feels bad to build holy sites to me. The faith equates to a quick army

 

[Mr. Shadows]

I feel sorry I've been out of the loop, things got extremely busy for me but the expansion announcement brought back the Civ itch for me I'm glad to see so many people having fun with this. By now some of are probably better at it than I am. I admit that I feel vindicated that so many of you are able to use it reliably.

 

[playshogi]

This is a really nice strategy that highlights the holy site, theocracy and the grandmaster chapel. I got my attack rolling on turn 123, so late, but effective. I had a good map, room to expand, not too threatening neighbors and a NW nearby.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

This is a really nice strategy that highlights the holy site, theocracy and the grandmaster chapel. I got my attack rolling on turn 123, so late, but effective. I had a good map, room to expand, not too threatening neighbors and a NW nearby.

I played that game pretty bad for this strategy.
I delayed Religion too long and didn't get it up.
Barbs were all over the NW so I found it too late.

I found the Map/Game to be easy enough for Knight Rush.
That isn't the point though since we are supposed to be going for Religion and Faith Buying Hussars.
However with this land I think top players will get up a Knight Rush very quick compared to Faith Buying Hussars.
I gave it up once I realized I was going to miss a Religion.
That was a lot of Holy Sites and Locked In Holy Sites that weren't going to be very Musical

For some reason I couldn't coordinate my Holy Sites and Campuses next to one another.
Must of settled my first expo too close to the Capital/Mountain hindering tiles or something.

 

[playshogi]

Yes, I noticed a knight rush would be faster, but been there done that. In this game I never built a campus. Holy site first, civic to mysticism first, run GP card. What was weird was when I got my prophet there were only 3 religions founded, but when I founded the religion (on that very turn), it was the last religion.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Yes, I noticed a knight rush would be faster, but been there done that. In this game I never built a campus. Holy site first, civic to mysticism first, run GP card. What was weird was when I got my prophet there were only 3 religions founded, but when I founded the religion (on that very turn), it was the last religion.

It has been awhile since I played this strategy!
I forgot your not supposed to build any campuses LOL