A discussion of the dark side of Mythology

Kyriakos

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I often thought of the purpose of mythology. Arguably it is multi-faceted, and potentially all reasons for its existence have at times contributed to its formation, and subsequent multiplication. There are myths which are, at least on the surface, very clearly didactic (an example would be the parables of the new testament) while other myths seem to be about a negative quality, that of fear.

In Greek myths the tragic is almost always existent in the core of the story. For example in the labours of Heracles you see many entities being vanquished by the demigod, before his own suicide on the pyre. Through pain he lived, and through extreme pain he dies, to become immortal (Jesus perhaps can be seen as a parallel to that, although his suffering maybe was less).

The mythical tale of Heracles is soaked in blood, the blood of men, of monsters, of hybrids of men and monsters. I wonder how it appealed to the ancient Greek people. Nietzsche claims that every group of people creates heroes which are characteristically that which the group is not. Possibly this is due to the hero identity extinguishing all of the qualities which fire up inside it, with his tragic death, and the person hearing of the hero's story can feel that his own pathos has been cleaned, projected onto the vessel of catharsis, which is the hero figure.

It would seem that all of the main Greek heroes, Heracles, Achilles, Theseus, Perseas, Odysseus, are met in the end with their tragic fate. Heracles burns himself. Achilles becomes a ghost in the underworld. Perseus dies in exile, after involuntary manslaughter. Theseus is tricked to cause the death of his first son. Odysseus returns to his homeland only after a tempestuous journey.

In conclusion of this OP i would like to say that it seems important for people to be able to "live" another person's story, so as to acquire wisdom from this semi-identification with the sufferer, as in the myths. Thus the mythical figure, destined to suffer, is like the titan Atlas, holding on his shoulders the sky which is filled with a red glow, that of blood and despair. Even today we read books partly so as to enrich our own "experience" of life, other ways of life and thought being revealed to us through that reading. Could it be said that the need to communicate in such a way, flawed as it may be, fundamentally is due to our inextinguishable thirst for bettering our chances to prosper, on the material or spiritual level? And do heroes, and myths, help us in unconscious ways to achieve that?
 
It would seem to me that myths play different roles in human live by pointing out to something beyond the general human experience to something yet unmanifested but by no way less real - rather the contrary...
 
From my experience mythology always has a "good" side and a "bad" side and in the end there is some sort of a struggle between both sides in which the good side wins.

Since most myths exist to teach us some sort of a lesson or make some sort of a point, the "dark side" is sort of necessary.

What would the Bible be if there was no Satan or no sins? Myths need bad guys.
 
I think you cannot really draw this parallel between christian 'myths' and ancient greek ones, since in ancient greek mythology the gods are not exactly deemed as ethical. In fact they are often mischievous, and dangerous for humans, and they do not request humans to think of them as righteous instead.

They are more like normal people, or rather very lively, powerful, childish people. Maybe this speaks about the deep-seeded will to be entirely free, as no man can really be.
 
I think you cannot really draw this parallel between christian 'myths' and ancient greek ones, since in ancient greek mythology the gods are not exactly deemed as ethical. In fact they are often mischievous, and dangerous for humans, and they do not request humans to think of them as righteous instead.

They are more like normal people, or rather very lively, powerful, childish people. Maybe this speaks about the deep-seeded will to be entirely free, as no man can really be.

I think a lot of people think that God was a spoiled child with selfish desires and not at all righteous.
 
Well yeah, but the difference is that in Jewish myth you are expected to think of god as being right, only being thinking in mysterious ways. In greek myth you are not to think different of the god's than what their actions show: they are a danger for mortals, they should be worshipped and generally kept at a distance, else you might find yourself missing a few limbs ;)
 
I think you cannot really draw this parallel between christian 'myths' and ancient greek ones, since in ancient greek mythology the gods are not exactly deemed as ethical. In fact they are often mischievous, and dangerous for humans, and they do not request humans to think of them as righteous instead.

They are more like normal people, or rather very lively, powerful, childish people. Maybe this speaks about the deep-seeded will to be entirely free, as no man can really be.

This seems to be corect. The demigods or ancient greek gods are self-fulfiled beings who just pursue their own more or less divine goals as opposed to human beings who has to go through strugle against their own lower natures. They do represent some kind of intermediate step between Humanity and the Absolute.
They also represent the good side. The side which is more or less in harmony with the self-revealing Source or at least they arent in direct opposition to It. In power they are much more powerful then humans or say angels but compared to the Source they are mere toys.
 
This seems to be corect. The demigods or ancient greek gods are self-fulfiled beings who just pursue their own more or less divine goals as opposed to human beings who has to go through strugle against their own lower natures. They do represent some kind of intermediate step between Humanity and the Absolute.
They also represent the good side. The side which is more or less in harmony with the self-revealing Source or at least they arent in direct opposition to It. In power they are much more powerful then humans or say angels but compared to the Source they are mere toys.

If that were the case, are they not just merely stories to show human's darker side but on a more grandiose level? Seems to me that humans need to justify their existence be it for good or for evil.
 
If that were the case, are they not just merely stories to show human's darker side but on a more grandiose level? Seems to me that humans need to justify their existence be it for good or for evil.

In my opinion these powerful beings are quite real but they function on subtler level then gross physical. Sometimes they manifest on earth in human body like was the case with Napoleon, Shakespeare, and many others. You can even count Stalin or Hitler but these were of course hostile forces and in Hitlers case it was rather only a possesion by vital force...
Human beings are more or less consciously under influences by many greater Forces which existed before humanity and these myths are interpretentions of the nature of these Forces. But if you want to take them as stories of human nature that will also serve some purpose becouse ultimately human being is god in seed form and Humanity is continuously evolving...
 
I think you cannot really draw this parallel between christian 'myths' and ancient greek ones, since in ancient greek mythology the gods are not exactly deemed as ethical. In fact they are often mischievous, and dangerous for humans, and they do not request humans to think of them as righteous instead.

They are more like normal people, or rather very lively, powerful, childish people. Maybe this speaks about the deep-seeded will to be entirely free, as no man can really be.

Yeah, I realize they are quite different, but I'm most familiar with Christian mythology so I used that as an example.
 
In my opinion these powerful beings are quite real but they function on subtler level then gross physical. Sometimes they manifest on earth in human body like was the case with Napoleon, Shakespeare, and many others. You can even count Stalin or Hitler but these were of course hostile forces and in Hitlers case it was rather only a possesion by vital force...
Human beings are more or less consciously under influences by many greater Forces which existed before humanity and these myths are interpretentions of the nature of these Forces. But if you want to take them as stories of human nature that will also serve some purpose becouse ultimately human being is god in seed form and Humanity is continuously evolving...
One of my perspectives on this issue is that mythologies often manifest as Jungian archetypes. And they abound to this day. Flash Gordon immediately springs to mind. Once you start to see these things you see them everywhere. Please forgive me if this seems a little crazy. I am sincere.


{G I'm not at all surprised to see you here}
 
Isn't mythology basically a form of a folk knowledge repository/cautionary tale/a guide how to act in life/poetic answer to a problem people care about?

Take the Czech "birth of the nation" myth, with the forefather climbing a hill, surveying the surrounding land from the top and declaring it to be the new home of his tribe. Although this myth has been (ab)used by generations of nationalists, it is actually very very old. It seems that slavic-speaking people in Bohemia and Moravia were always aware of the fact that they came to this land from somewhere else and this awareness was passed down from generation to generation in the form of a myth. A form of it was eventually written down by chroniclers when the region became Christianized.

Darker myths in my opinion serve mainly as cautionary tales, or reminders that other people have suffered throughout history so that the present generation should just grin and bear it.
 
What can anyone tell me about fairy tales?

also demi-urges, elementals and the like
 
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