A "fault" with diplomat system

[TheMarshmallowBear]

While I was putting books into the shelves during my Work Experience (or was that during lunch.. or.. unimportant)

I had a thought about Diplomats. Which probably truly affects Multiplayer anyway.

The one thing that Diplomats do is not only share intrigue, allow you to see what the AI is planning, but also spread propaganda which increases your tourism output in the rival city.. and while that is great there's is a little bit of a look-over, unless I'm missing something

As far as I can tell we can see what affects the Tourism output, i.e Open Borders, Wonders, etc. which can be seen from the Cultural Victory Screen, which compare Culture vs. Tourism.. but here's the fault, if Diplomat affects the Tourism output, then this should be displayed in the % section of the screen, and HERE is where it gets faulty. you can SEE other player's tourism/culture screen as well as yours (there is a drop down that changes the P.O.V so you can see how close and powerful they are culture/tourism-wise. which means you can see what affects THEIR Tourism output, which means you can SEE if they have a SPY in one of your cities...

That, or there is something I'm missing. But I'm bored so let's discuss. However, gotta admit thank god they came up with a useful use for advanced civs to use spies for.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

While I was putting books into the shelves during my Work Experience (or was that during lunch.. or.. unimportant)

I had a thought about Diplomats. Which probably truly affects Multiplayer anyway.

The one thing that Diplomats do is not only share intrigue, allow you to see what the AI is planning, but also spread propaganda which increases your tourism output in the rival city.. and while that is great there's is a little bit of a look-over, unless I'm missing something

As far as I can tell we can see what affects the Tourism output, i.e Open Borders, Wonders, etc. which can be seen from the Cultural Victory Screen, which compare Culture vs. Tourism.. but here's the fault, if Diplomat affects the Tourism output, then this should be displayed in the % section of the screen, and HERE is where it gets faulty. you can SEE other player's tourism/culture screen as well as yours (there is a drop down that changes the P.O.V so you can see how close and powerful they are culture/tourism-wise. which means you can see what affects THEIR Tourism output, which means you can SEE if they have a SPY in one of your cities...

That, or there is something I'm missing. But I'm bored so let's discuss. However, gotta admit thank god they came up with a useful use for advanced civs to use spies for.

You can't see if they have a Spy acting as Spy... you can see if they have a Spy acting as a Diplomat.

for a 'realism argument'. I Know the UK has diplomats in the US, I can find out their names, if I report to the CIA/FBI/NSA etc. that the UK has Diplomats in the US, they will probably shrug and say we know, they are allowed to do that.

I think that
1. putting a diplomat in a civ will not violate a "stop spying promise"
2. you will not be able to put a diplomat in a civ if you are at war (it may require an embassy).. declaring war will expel diplomats.

The diplomat Can't steal technology, they might not be able to receive Intrigue. (I'm sure they still give line of sight, but they can only be in the capital).. so they can't "do any harm"

 

[Alatan]

I think i read somewhere that diplomats require embassies and can onlz be put in capitals. Also, yes you know when you have a diplomat in your city, I just dont know will it be viable in multiplayer cause of embassies.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I think i read somewhere that diplomats require embassies and can onlz be put in capitals. Also, yes you know when you have a diplomat in your city, I just dont know will it be viable in multiplayer cause of embassies.

Well Embassies are required for certain other deals I believe, so you might be willing to risk a Diplomat from someone who isn't trying to Culture win or pressure you to a different Ideology.

And possibly they only require peace (and sight of the capital), not an embassy

 

[adwcta]

I don't get it... are we not supposed to know what diplomats are in what civ? I'm pretty sure that's all public info. Spies are separate. No reason you can't have a spy and a diplomat in a city. No one'll know you have a spy there.

The only information now is how many spies you are using vs diplomats you're using (e.g. if you only have 1 espionage unit, and you have 1 public diplomat, then clearly you are not spying on anyone; if you do NOT have a public diplomat, then you may be protecting your own civ, spying on others, rigging a CS... you still don't know what it's being used for exactly).

 

[HottiePippen]

Of course they'll know if you have a diplomat. You can only trade for congress votes if you have a diplomat in their capital, ergo, if you can trade for votes, they know you have a diplomat. Diplomats aren't supposed to be hidden.

 

[MadDjinn]

Of course they'll know if you have a diplomat. You can only trade for congress votes if you have a diplomat in their capital, ergo, if you can trade for votes, they know you have a diplomat. Diplomats aren't supposed to be hidden.

That would make the conversation really 'awkward'.

"We're not here you never saw anything, but uhm, can we discuss the upcoming World Congress vote?"

 

[aluelkdf]

Diplomats usually work at embassies and are publicly known. Although they might have off the record, top secret discussions. They may talk about how they can wage economic warfare against another country, how they can topple a foreign government, etc.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Although there is now an additional reason not to want a foreign diplomat.

not only the 25% tourism pressure against you but they get extra delegate(s) if they have the Globalization tech.

Seems like you may have to declare war on the Cultural and Diplomatic leaders (if they are not you... of course you may suffer for that)

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

I assume you get a notification when a diplomat is added to your capital?

Anyways, the diplomat system really will add a new layer of role playing to my games, among other things. I can just imagine me imagining my capital to be a diplomatic hub. Another question: does anyone know if you could expel a diplomat, by other means than war?

 

[Biologist]

I recently read about something similar to this in a book on 18th century espionage. A couple of relevant quotes:

"Diplomats, princes, and generals discreetly passed each other scraps of intelligence that eventually reached the ears of the various capitals. It... often took place over dinner."

"The espionage process evolved into a ritual... and was viewed as just part of the ancient game played by Great Powers".

So basically, diplomats represent respectable "agents" that should not incur the wrath of the civs they operate in. Spies (in the G&K sense) represent the hired, lowborn agents that were considered disreputable and typically jailed or executed if caught.