A few bugs

[Balzemon]

I've played a few games of the latest version of the mod and really like it so far. I've encountered a few bugs and thought I would pass them along here. If there is somewhere else this should be, please move it as necessary.

While playing one game things seemed to spiral out of control when the Tileans went from near the bottom of the point standings to pass me. There was one turn in particular when it said several dozen Great Generals spawned at once:

About twenty or so turns later I come across two Condotteri Battalions. One has about eight promotions and the other had about fifteen. Eventually I was able to wear them down and eliminate them. Not long after I destroy the first unit I notice my treasury has swollen to new heights:

The turn after I destroy the second (weaker) unit I see this in the event box:

I also noticed that several Great Merchants were being created each round and a veritable stream of them were coming out of the Border Princes area through my southern borders (I was playing Empire). Curiosity send me investigating. Here's what I found:

Well at least that explained the Tilean's skyrocketing score! Between the Tileans getting multiple Great Merchants each turn and my gigantic treasury I decided to table this particular game session.

One other thing I noticed is that there are a LOT of trolls in the Kislev area. I cleared it but there were about twenty of the beasts all told which seems a bit excessive IMO. I assume they spawn every so often, perhaps randomly. Whatever the case, you might want to tone them down a bit. I did find what I suspect must be another bug however when I cleared them out. Every time I eliminated the last Rivertroll in a square and moved into it I "captured" a light cavalry for my trouble:

My next game I got well into the lead tech-wise and was able to build all eight magical colleges. After playing with the various wizards I got to say some seem a lot better than others. Gold, Fire, and Celestial wizards are all extremely useful, while Heirophants seem pretty useless. Half the heirophant spells seem uncastable and the two attack spells don't seem to do anything. The summoned guardian light is handy, but since you can summon an unlimited number at a rate of one per turn per heirophant, the spell quickly loses its value.

I have been unable to promote any of my Amber wizards to the Lord level. The promotion simply does not appear. It's the only wizard lord of the eight colleges I was unable to upgrade. The Lord Master of Chamon (Gold Wizard Lord) has a bug that pops up a python exception every time he is selected or directed to do something. If you move him one space at a time using the keyboard (for example) it comes up after every move:

I finally got so annoyed that I deleted my first Gold Lord thinking it was a fluke bug, but later when I promoted two more Gold Lords they each had the same bug.

I hope you find these helpful and if there's anything I can do or if you need more information I'll do my best to help out however I can.

 

[Ahriman]

What version are you using?

There was an old bug with the Insane trait that sometimes gave massive numbers of great people, and the killing units giving resources in nearby cities was old.

The Kislev trolls are a known issue, there are too many spawners.

Heirophants are light magic mages? From memory they have some pretty good healnig spells. I thought the healing light was suposed to be capped at 1 per mage.

Gold lord bug noted.

 

[Balzemon]

Version 1.5 with Patch A as linked from the first post of the download thread. Is there a newer one?

I thought at one time I had more healing lights than heirophants, but I might be wrong. Perhaps I wasn't taking the Heirophant Lords into account. Two of their spells mention blinding the enemy but they don't seem to do anything when I use them. At least one of the two mentions doing damage, but I don't see any actual damage being done.

The Heirophant Lord might have some better spells, I'm not sure. I have so many wizards running around (54 unless one gets killed) that I just parked a lot of them after the end of the last war on my homeland. I think all of my Wizard Lords are there chilling until I need them to defend my home continent.

The Witchhunt is listed in the Fanaticism tech description and it is buildable, but it is not in the Civipedia and seems to have no effect in game when built.

Are you going to include the naval units from Man O' War? I hope so, I really loved that game. Right now all the navies are rather homogenous since they use the same ships.

Is there a bug with the Amber Wizard Lord or did I overlook something? I can't seem to get any of my five Amber Wizards to upgrade -- the option just does not appear. Does the Amber Academy need to be built in a city with a Breeding Grounds in order to upgrade to the Lord?

The Sisters of Shallaya wonder Civipedia entry says it gives a free healing promotion to units built in that city, but that isn't what it does in game.

The Astronomy tech provides the Observatory building. It seems to come awful late in the tech tree for what it does -- by the time I got the tech there were only a handful of techs left, but perhaps that was more due to my order of tech development than a problem with the tech tree.

I'm still enjoying the mod immensely, so a hearty thank you to everyone who's been involved in the design and development process.

 

[Ahriman]

There are several bugs with magic.

For one thing, you aren't supposed to be able to build all the Mage colleges as a single civ

So you'll have many fewer mages to work with, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were like and metal magic bugs.

We'll eventually redo naval units, but thats a loooong way in the future. The mod is really about land combat.

Sisters is bugged.

We're tweaking the tech tree and will include some expensive high end "future techs" that have high costs but provide superior upgrades for your units.

 

[Balzemon]

Both the Steam Tank and the Juggernaut of Khorne accumulate experience, but they have no promotions available to them.

When you cut a forest to build a workshop it generates 20 hammers in the nearest city -- since it doesn't do this with other building types, I assume it is a bug.

Trails are bugged. Even though I have both the road and trail technologies (as Norsca) and can build both, within a turn or two any road I build changes back to a trail. The +1 trail movement bonus for the Tracking technology does not seem to work.

There is an event where a resource square that needs a plantation to use it is improved to have a plantation for free. If you decline it comes back every turn until you accept it. I declined it for about ten straight turns before I gave up and accepted it to get rid of it. I farmed over the neighboring sugar to the one that was giving me fits only to have the same thing happen again. It's quite annoying.

Still having loads of fun.

p.s. Forget what I said about Astrology. It's fine, I guess I just didn't research it until very late but it is available much earlier which makes the Observatory very helpful.

 

[Ahriman]

Both the Steam Tank and the Juggernaut of Khorne accumulate experience, but they have no promotions available to them.

Yup, known issue, its because they're armored units which have no promotions defined.

When you cut a forest to build a workshop it generates 20 hammers in the nearest city -- since it doesn't do this with other building types, I assume it is a bug.

Are you sure? Chopping forest is supposed to give the same kind of hammer bonuses as in vanilla civ to any kind of construction, though much smaller hammer yields.

Trails are bugged. Even though I have both the road and trail technologies (as Norsca) and can build both, within a turn or two any road I build changes back to a trail. The +1 trail movement bonus for the Tracking technology does not seem to work.

Trails actually aren't bugged. The bugs are:
a) some civs (like norsca) can access both techs; they shouldn't be able to, each civ should only ever be able to get one or the other; norsca shouldn't be able to get the roads tech.
b) +1 movement AFAIK works as intended but isn't quite the same as roads. trails aren't as good as roads, the +1 movement rate won't let 1 movement units move 3 tiles, but it will help units with 2 or more moves.

There is an event where a resource square that needs a plantation to use it is improved to have a plantation for free. If you decline it comes back every turn until you accept it. I declined it for about ten straight turns before I gave up and accepted it to get rid of it. I farmed over the neighboring sugar to the one that was giving me fits only to have the same thing happen again. It's quite annoying.

These events were put in to help the AI mostly, which was having trouble over-riding some of its old buildings to get the new improvements. The AI always chooses to upgrade. We could hopefully remove the repetition though for the human player, since the AI only ever needs it once per tile.

Glad you're having fun; you'll probably even have more fun once we get a fix in that removes the AI tendency to destroy its economy by spamming watchtowers everywhere.

 

[Balzemon]

According to the on screen info chopping forests yields nothing but cleared land. Here's a pic showing the expected results from building a cottage, a farm, and a workshop.

To be sure I took a city that was just started and had 31 turns to complete a building and chopped a forest next to it -- no change in production time (other than the expected change due to time passing).

Slaanesh mages are also bugged. They don't seem to get their spells. Here's a pic.

What is the time limit on the scenarios? In both of my games I've hit the end of the tech tree and lead in points but am looking at several long, tedious wars before I hit any of the victory conditions.

 

[Ahriman]

To be sure I took a city that was just started and had 31 turns to complete a building and chopped a forest next to it -- no change in production time (other than the expected change due to time passing).

Ah yes, now I recall this was removed as part of some experimentation to reduce forestlock; when forests required bronze working (which was several techs down) to clear forests to build improvements, AIs would perform very badly because they could get stuck in forest and unable to produce farms and cottages.
So we tried making forests choppable earlier, but with no hammer yield.
I forget the final thing - do later techs (bronze and iron) increase the forest chop yield to something positive?
In any case, I don't think its terribly important.

Part of why we don't want big yields is that there are treespinging spells that can create forests, and that could be exploitable.

Slaanesh mages are also bugged. They don't seem to get their spells. Here's a pic.

Not *quite* a bug; I think Slaanesh currently only gives level 3 spells, there aren't any level 1 or 2 spells coded. Look at the details (and mouseover?) of the Mark of Slaanesh promotion.
We're intending to redo the chaos magics and make them function more like the other magics; so rather than chaos magic 1, 2 and 3 and marks of tzeentch/slaanesh/nurgle, we'll have tzeentch magic 1, 2, 3 promotions and nurgle magic 1, 2, 3 and slaanesh magic 1, 2, 3.

What is the time limit on the scenarios? In both of my games I've hit the end of the tech tree and lead in points but am looking at several long, tedious wars before I hit any of the victory conditions.

Time limit is like 500 turns? Honestly though I've never completed a game; its always play until I get bored. But I hardly ever finish civ games, particularly on standard maps or larger. We are intending to address this in two ways:
a) the top end of the tech tree will be more expensive
b) there will be a series of very expensive "future tech" type things that give access to new military doctrines and standards, and provide superior promotions to your units.
c) there will be some new victory conditions. Chaos can bring about the End Times and build 5 massive gateway wonders to win. Not sure about salvation civs.
d) In the loooong distant future we're still hoping to get an adapted Rhyes-style game on a Warhammer World map, where each faction will have specific historic victory conditions. Eg: high and dark elves could have to wipe each other out and be first to circumnavigate the globe.
Dwarves or Goblins or Skaven could have to have certain areas of mountain all within their cultural borders.
Empire could have to wipe out all the Chaos civs.
etc.

 

[BR1M5T0NE]

Tileans would also screw up for me, guess it's the insane trait. All buildings would give tons of happiness, civic upkeep costs increased by a few million, great people popped up every turn just about, and production for wonders would either be over a million or negative. I ended up going into the editor and removing them at the start.

Also I just wasn't able to play those huge maps with all the civs, after 100-200 turns the amount of time for each tick became unreasonable. Or else the game would crash because it took too much memory to run. I ended up submerging the continent on the left and moving the Druchii to Tilean's starting spot. Also would run that worldcities scenario with no city razing, no settlers, and no vassals to keep everyone from getting too big and possibly having civs die off instead of lingering on as vassals. And with the event that can turn your town into a settler you can still place a couple key cities. So far I've gotten over 250-300 turns in or so before restarting and it hasn't slowed down too much or crashed on me yet.

And I'm glad you're working on adding more higher end techs. I also think you should increase the costs for those higher end techs by 2-3 times. Playing epic you start spending 20-40 turns per tech but then after you get the initial techs and a few cities the rest of the techs only take 1-5 turns usually. So you fly through all techs until you have nothing left, and then all those buildings and GP that produce research are useless. Flying through those higher techs that fast also mean you don't really use some of those middle tier units, because in a couple more turns you'll be able to get the best. Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to edit the tech tree myself....