A few thoughts of the Mazatl

[Cyrusfan]

Actually all of the agnostic civs probably need a look on those bonuses for state religion. I'm trying to figure the Scions out currently and it seems like a civ that's specifically a cult for one of their leaders ought to be getting it (the bonus from God-King is actually what I'm concerned with since it applies earlier when it matters more).

OTOH I'm waiting to try the new Grigori, but can they even run God-King? Seems a little wierd given that Cassiel is suggesting that they not get caught up in religions. And the Mechanos are kind of a militant anti-theistic cult.

A sort of related question-With Ordo being removed, what's going to happen to its music?

 

[Valkrionn]

uhhh.... God King doesn't require religion in anyway.

Scions also get a boost for Theocracy. The "Incite Fervor" spell can be used by them, and gives them several of their Legates.

There is a big difference between the Scion version of Agnostic and the Grigori version. Cult, vs no religion. The Mazatl aren't really either... Their gods (Kalshekk and Omorr) are simply Kilmorph and Oghma. The closest religion for Oghma would be Empy, whereas Kilmorph is obviously RoK.


Edit: As for the Ordo music... It will be used for Airandamar. All I'll say.

 

[Cyrusfan]

Bah, you're right. I'm thinking of the +1 from Religion under Culture Values for each city with your state religion. Anyway the question I was trying to as k is

"Shouldn't civs that functionally have a(n exclusive) state religion (temples and disciple units, like the Scion and Mazatl, to a lesser extent the new Mechanos, and not at all the Grigori) qualify for civic effects (looks like just Theocracy and Religion, which I think the Mazatl have by default) that grant bonuses in cities which have the state religion (in all of their cities)?"

 

[Valkrionn]

Bah, you're right. I'm thinking of the +1 from Religion under Culture Values for each city with your state religion. Anyway the question I was trying to as k is

"Shouldn't civs that functionally have a(n exclusive) state religion (temples and disciple units, like the Scion and Mazatl, to a lesser extent the new Mechanos, and not at all the Grigori) qualify for civic effects (looks like just Theocracy and Religion, which I think the Mazatl have by default) that grant bonuses in cities which have the state religion (in all of their cities)?"

For Cultist leaders, yes. Agnostic, no. Wait for 1.4, basically, as that distinction will be required for another feature anyway.

Though the Mazatl won't qualify....

 

[Valkrionn]

Aaaaand this is why the Mazatl won't qualify. Will leave you all to puzzle it out.

Edit: Eh. No point even trying.

The Mazatl are no longer agnostic. Kalshekk represented Kilmorph; It's temple and priest are now replacements for the RoK items, and stats have been tweaked accordingly. Also added a High Priest of Kalshekk unit. Omorr represented Oghma; The closest religion for that is Empy, so it's temple and priests now fall into that religion. As with Kalshekk, stats have been adjusted and a High Priest has been added. Check the wiki for details. In both cases, the unique spells were preserved.

For the other religions, there is nothing unique; Just the standard religion. However, the priests will come in lizard form, as you can see in that screenshot. Basically, I took the standard Kalshekk/Omorr priest (identical other than color and embossing on the cape that you can barely see anyway), and tweaked it to get three levels of unit.

1. Disciple - Just sword.
2. Priest - Sword + Shoulders
3. High Priest - Sword, Shoulders, Cape

I then recolored the sword/shoulders/cape for all religions, as follows (same order as in the screenie):

• RoK - Brown - Kalshekk
• Empy - Yellow - Omorr
• Order - Red
• AV - Purple
• FoL - Green
• OO - Blue
• WH - White

Obvious colors, aside from Order/AV (both are actually red, so I made one light red and the other a dark reddish purple).

 

[BiffQJ]

My question with this is will the Mazatl still be able to utilize both Sacellums of Kalshekk and Omorr (and their priest units) like they currently can? I thought that they kind of worshipped both (hence the Pantheon building). Will that be worked in somehow?

 

[legowarrior]

That is awesome, and it fits perfectly with their theme. They are religious, but if you pick the right religion, you get some cool units. This is exactly what I think the Mazatl should be. Will the other lizardman race have a similar mechanic?

 

[Valkrionn]

My question with this is will the Mazatl still be able to utilize both Sacellums of Kalshekk and Omorr (and their priest units) like they currently can? I thought that they kind of worshipped both (hence the Pantheon building). Will that be worked in somehow?

Yes and no. As with all other civs, you'll be able to build both temples if you have both religions in the city; However, the priests ARE limited to the state religion. And the high priests will abandon if you switch religions.

They do worship both. All non-agnostic civs worship (or at least recognize the divinity of) all the gods. The state religion is simply focusing on one of those gods. They may call them by a different name, but ultimately they are still the same gods.

The only thing I'm tempted to do is make Omorr stand-alone, as it used to be. It represents Oghma, not Lugus, but the two have related spheres (Knowledge and Truth, respectively) so it's still a good fit.

The Pantheon building itself will be left alone.

That is awesome, and it fits perfectly with their theme. They are religious, but if you pick the right religion, you get some cool units. This is exactly what I think the Mazatl should be. Will the other lizardman race have a similar mechanic?

The other lizards will remain agnostic. They'll get a nice mechanic, but not in 1.3, and it won't involve religions. In fact, I plan to make them Cultists, not simply Agnostic, but that's a distinction without meaning just yet.

 

[isthmus]

Actually, when I saw this...

And the Coutl, which are not part of the mythology at all would make awesome mini heroes, since the Mazatl lack them without religion.

for some reason I thought of the Cuotl in Rise of Legends. Those constructs were damn cool

Whether it fits with the lore and flavour is another matter, but if possible to model and animate they'd make cool late game mazatl units.

 

[Valkrionn]

......Damnit.

I have a program that supposedly rips art from games, have that game, the game is supposedly supported... But it doesn't work. I've tried, for the Mechanos (Vinci FTW... Where do you think Lenora came from? )

 

[legowarrior]

NO! First the dutch lose the finals and now this? It is a cruel world.

 

[Sjru]

If Mazatl can worship a religion, like RoK, they would be able to build that religion heroes? I don't see how a dwarf hero will fit to them.-

Also I hope you add another leader for the mazatl, then...

 

[Valkrionn]

If Mazatl can worship a religion, like RoK, they would be able to build that religion heroes? I don't see how a dwarf hero will fit to them.-

Also I hope you add another leader for the mazatl, then...

Yes, they'll be able to build their heroes. Really though... If elves can build a dwarven hero, lizards can too.

IIRC, the Mazatl have at least three new leaders coming with 1.4. At least 40 new leaders in all in that version.

 

[Segolenus]

Apologies for the necro.

Are you planning on distinguishing between the Couatl and the Quetzals? If not, then since the Couatl are supposed to be the servants of Amathaon, do you have a reason as to why Coatlann would be serving Kilmorph instead? Just wondering.

(I guess it would make sense if Amathaon is also important in Mazatl mythology, such that he sent Coatlann to protect the Mazatl. Does their palace give creation mana?)

 

[Valkrionn]

Not really, honestly was not aware that Amathaon used the creature already. Just replaced the word "Wyvern" with "Quetzal" in the pedia entry, making it seem fairly generic, not limited to one god.

 

[Cyrusfan]

Good Mornin' Valk.

 

[Valkrionn]

Not morning, nearly 8pm.

 

[Cyrusfan]

Well yes, I just figured you'd earned a good sleep-in, giving the timestamp I saw on some of last night's comments.

 

[Valkrionn]

Heh. Not at all, only slept about 5 hours.

Sleep is for the weak. And the weekend.