a good MMOPG?

[cardgame]

Runescape is something to at least try, since it does have a free version. The quests are far superior to all existing MMORPGs, which seem to be "slay x of this mob" or "collect x items and report back".

It was actually pretty fun until they ruined it in summer '08 by adding the uber-rare items that generated all the gold farming bots, which in turn led to the end of free trade and the wilderness.

Might be fun for a new player though.

 

[Cull]

 

[Akka]

WoW has a very enthralling gameplay, but it seriously got far too casual and formulaic for my tastes in the last expansion.
I had played it fanatically and faithfully for years at ends, but paused it for several monthes last year, and stopped again my subscription some weeks ago.

If you're casual and only want to have a bit of fun and get everything quickly and easily, and spend as much time chatting with your friend than actually playing it's still a great game, with unrivaled details and gameplay.

But if you are a bit more hardcore and you want to involve yourself or feel like you're part of a world and you have to progress in... Just forget it. There is no progression nor variety anymore in the game, it's become ruled by a single formula of "the last raid tier is everything, and everyone HAVE to see it in its entirety during the pre-determined time frame, before it's made obsolete and the cycle begin anew".

A shame.

 

[MobBoss]

With the games that are coming out... and some that already are out, I suspect WoW to begin to dwindle just due to better games being out there.

Yeah, but we have been hearing this for about 2 years now. Hasnt happened yet smply because the new games that are supposed to make WoW 'dwindle' have themselves fallen way short of the hype.

Top this off with the amount of people I am seeing leaving WoW for good due to account hacks and hacks in general and I suspect the community to disapate into other games soon.

Now this comment does indeed have relevance. Just in the past month I have had 2 friends get their accounts hacked (supposedly by keylogger/trojans they got somehow) and getting their stuff back after the fact has been a huge pita for them. Its gotten to the point where the hackers are getting more and more sophisticated. I get stuff in my junkmail that looks like it is from Blizzard, but its not - the most recent one saying my account email had been reset and to please click on this link to verify the change. Amazing. You also end up reporting a lot of in game spam due to hackers trying to trick you there as well with offers of free mounts, items, etc. Heck, one of the phish attempts was saying you were picked to participate in the Catacylsm beta, please go to a link and log in.

But there are things that you can do to mitigate this. After this last hack of a friends account, I elected to purchase the battle.net codekey device. Its a small keyring device with a button and screen. Essentially, once you activate and link it to your account, it creates a specific random number thats only good for 4 mins, that you have to type in addition to your user name/password. It essentially makes your account hackproof and only costs $6.50. Bear in mind that this is a battle.net account tool, not just WoW, so it covers you for all blizzard games (I have to enter it in for SCII as well).

There are better games out there now depending on what you are looking for. (PvE, PvP, RP, Exploration, etc.)

Well, I am not sure I would agree here. The thing with WoW is that it does all of those things better than the rest, not one particular niche/facet. Out of all the more recent games over the last couple of years, about the only one I would say that comes close to WoW would be Warhammer Online. I played that one until I got high enough level to recognize some significant class balancing issues and lack of end game content - and thats a killer for a PVP oriented game like that. I am sure they have made some changes/updates since I left it, but I am not sure how well it was done. I did hear that then ended up having to merge servers due to participation, and thats never a good thing in an MMO.

WoW has a very enthralling gameplay, but it seriously got far too casual and formulaic for my tastes in the last expansion.

I think thats the first time I have ever seen someone complain that an MMO was 'too casual'....

It being casual is what I like about it. I can drop in, run a random dungeon or two, have fun and then call it good, all in just an hour or so.

If you're casual and only want to have a bit of fun and get everything quickly and easily, and spend as much time chatting with your friend than actually playing it's still a great game, with unrivaled details and gameplay.

Well, since the vast majority of gamers are indeed 'casual' I think you just made my case for me.

But if you are a bit more hardcore and you want to involve yourself or feel like you're part of a world and you have to progress in... Just forget it. There is no progression nor variety anymore in the game, it's become ruled by a single formula of "the last raid tier is everything, and everyone HAVE to see it in its entirety during the pre-determined time frame, before it's made obsolete and the cycle begin anew".

Well, all I can say to that is I dont agree. Being in a smaller guild, we have a core of about 10 to 15 folks that put together a weekly 10 man ICC run, and we are only able to get about halfway through (6 of 12 bosses) on a run. So far, its been a lot of fun and challenging progressing at a more casual pace than seeing it as 'hardcore'.

If anything, 'hardcore' players tend to veer away from the PvE end of things, and simply engage in never-ending PvP in the battlegrounds and Winters Grasp event. Nothing wrong with that either, and the cool thing about WoW is that it caters to both mindsets fairly equally.

I have no doubt we will eventually get a WoW-killer, and WoW will end up like many of the other great MMOs of years past that were still hugely fun and lasted a very long time, like EQ, and Dark Age of Camelot. The genre will continue to be improved and evolve and I for one, look forward to it.

 

[Akka]

It being casual is what I like about it. I can drop in, run a random dungeon or two, have fun and then call it good, all in just an hour or so.

Well, since the vast majority of gamers are indeed 'casual' I think you just made my case for me.

Be lucky that WoW is adapted to your taste then, and by all means enjoy it.

Well, all I can say to that is I dont agree. Being in a smaller guild, we have a core of about 10 to 15 folks that put together a weekly 10 man ICC run, and we are only able to get about halfway through (6 of 12 bosses) on a run. So far, its been a lot of fun and challenging progressing at a more casual pace than seeing it as 'hardcore'.

Err... My point is precisely that if you're not casual, WoW has become utterly boring.
You answer by saying "I disagree, it's fun when you're casual". What are you disagreeing about, then ?

If anything, 'hardcore' players tend to veer away from the PvE end of things, and simply engage in never-ending PvP in the battlegrounds and Winters Grasp event. Nothing wrong with that either, and the cool thing about WoW is that it caters to both mindsets fairly equally.

Actually, no, WoW doesn't caters to both mindset anymore. That's why many old-timers are quitting it. And if hardcore players tend to abandon PvE to go PvP, it's simply because PvE has become an utter bore.
WoW caters now nearly exclusively to casuals, by removing any form of PvE progression and allowing everyone to see the entire content in matter of days/weeks.
They thrown a bone with the "hard mode" (for those wondering what it is : it's the same raid as usual, but with harder bosses), but it's just gimmicky and is far to please everyone - people who want an organic progression in the game are simply faced with "99 % of the game is a boring faceroll, up to the moment you see the last percent which is incredibly hard".
Additionnally, everything being made osbolete each patch, it tends to make it pointless to even do anything in the long term. Pretty disheartening, and kills any desire to involve yourself deep in the game.

I have no doubt we will eventually get a WoW-killer, and WoW will end up like many of the other great MMOs of years past that were still hugely fun and lasted a very long time, like EQ, and Dark Age of Camelot. The genre will continue to be improved and evolve and I for one, look forward to it.

The WoW-killer for me has been WoW itself. I would still be there if not for the stupid choices made by Blizzard - well, stupid for me anyway.

 

[MobBoss]

Well, the OP is a question. If you wouldnt recommend WoW, what MMORPG would you recommend?

 

[Cull]

I would recommend Runescape. For a free game, its quite good.

If you're going to pay though, WoW.

 

[truckingpete]

WoW I heard is very addicting and a lot of people play it yes. and it does look pretty cheap monthly actually. Star Trek online could be better I say too.

Runescape I use to play A LOT, but it got old after awhile. I believed I played it for like 2 months straight, then I came back a few months later and played it again for another 3 months, but that was like before they came out with the new graphics, plus I never payed to play it though.

the EVE demo was interesting, but I dont think I'm going to get that. City of Heroes demo was pretty good actually, but i dont know yet. I here there are a few coming out in the next year that looked interesting...the LotR game looks interesting tho! plus I like something that isnt simple either, I like a challenge

by the way guys, thanks for all the input!!

 

[Akka]

Well, the OP is a question. If you wouldnt recommend WoW, what MMORPG would you recommend?

Read again.
I said I recommend WoW for superficial/casual game.
I don't recommend it if you're a gamer that crave some depth and long-term accomplishment. It depends on what he prefers.

For VERY hardcore, VERY involved players, I would recommand EVE Online, but I think that if someone is hardcore enough to like this game, he would know about it already ^^

The problem for the rest is that WoW had shaken the MMO world to its core, and set some pretty high standards when it comes to interface, gameplay, game-feeling and polish.
It took all the place, and now that it's abandonning the "gamer" territority, there is not a lot left to fill the void appropriately.
Most MMO are either trying to copy WoW (and failing), or simply have flaws that make them nearly unplayable in comparison, even if their overall design is more in line with what some people would like.
Despite their definite slide into money-grabbing, Blizzard has still a LOT of talent and know-how, and is still extremely hard to challenge.

 

[GoodGame]

why do they keep increasing it at all? Imo, it's really bad game design.

ditto.

 

[Rub'Rum]

A bit like Akka, in WoW, I often found myself soloing boring PvE while waiting to reach the end of the game where most guilds seem to hang out (raiding the last 5% of the game). I am an explorer. I tremendously enjoyed my first character in WoW, as the game was amazing to explore, even when soloing or playing with my gf. But now, after I've seen it, the only appeal is the social interaction, and most of it happens towards the end, or in PvP. So yeah.

However, this is the lot of most MMORPGs... Almost all of them fail at making the whole world interesting past the first playthrough, and focus on end-game content. I know a lot of people don't want to let go of their characters and end up playing those epic characters for years... But I think that the MMORPGs won't have solve its own riddle until it finds a way to make the progression as appealing to everyone as the end-game is.

 

[King Flevance]

Most of what I know about WoW has more to do with friends of mine that play and their views on it. I don't like WoW, and never have. I got one of those 14 day trials at Wal-Mart once since alot of my friends played. I quit on day 8ish. The PvE is why. As the game went on I watched WoW pull the same stunts as an old MMO I used to play called Anarchy Online. Where new expansions are more about having your run laps around the game to get the new loot again. Of which you will probably be finishing up in time to have the new expansion have you start over again perhaps in a new dungeon or two. But for any new player this rules out the purpose for doing old dungeons (as it's loot is now obsoleted) thus the content amount is relatively the same.

Personally, I am among the Guild Wars players. In the ongoing feud between the two it seems like Star Trek vs. Star Wars. You will usually like one and dislike the other. Or at best you will much prefer one over the other. I didn't like WoW, but I like Guild Wars. PvE in Guild Wars is much better than in WoW. Also Guild Wars is grind free almost. The only thing is if you can't get past having an arbitrary number showing your progress as a level. There are only 20 levels in guild wars and this is the main complaint GW haters have. But the content is good. Guild Wars 2 has already said that there will be a max level of 80. However, there will be no experience progression in levels. Meaning it will take the same amount of experience to go from lvl 1 to lvl 2 as it will to go from 79-80.

I now have no friends that play WoW anymore. My last friend to quit (One who used to play AO with me) says "Cataclysm is a good idea for an expansion. However, the expansions should have came out differently. It should have been Cataclysm, then Lich King, then Crusade. Cursade is [like] Shadowlands (AO expansion), all it does is offer a new plane completely seperate from the rest of the game."
FFXI also "pulled a shadowlands" and their expansion was even more of a rip off as not only did it have a seperate plane but as well it had the borders of said plane "crumblin". In AO this was called the brink. Monsters called hecklers would form here and were tough but gave great power leveling ability. This expansion also made any pre-Shadowland gear obsolete.

 

[Mango Elephant]

WoW is amazing in my opinion. No other MMO I've played (Runescape, Guild Wars, Age of Conan) have come close to it.

 

[PhroX]

Most of what I know about WoW has more to do with friends of mine that play and their views on it. I don't like WoW, and never have. I got one of those 14 day trials at Wal-Mart once since alot of my friends played. I quit on day 8ish. The PvE is why. As the game went on I watched WoW pull the same stunts as an old MMO I used to play called Anarchy Online. Where new expansions are more about having your run laps around the game to get the new loot again. Of which you will probably be finishing up in time to have the new expansion have you start over again perhaps in a new dungeon or two. But for any new player this rules out the purpose for doing old dungeons (as it's loot is now obsoleted) thus the content amount is relatively the same.

Yep, this is the massive flaw with increasing level caps and character power, and the reason it amazes me how many games do it. Vertical expansion means that old stuff (equipment, content etc) becomes obsolete instantly. On top of this, it further striates the playerbase. Just because EQ did it, doesn't mean that every damn MMO since has to (well, actually, fortunately not every MMO does, but the vast majority do).

Horizontal expansion is a far better idea. Adding new content at the same level. Giving players more abilities without significantly increasing their total power.

 

[cardgame]

How good are WoW's quests?

 

[Rub'Rum]

How good are WoW's quests?

Big blocks of typical fantasy text that basically tells you to get 5 gnoll paws and 10 bird livers. Somehow only one gnoll out of 10 has legs and most birds seem to live without livers.

Oh yeah, also escort that really slow guy that isn't there right now because someone else is already escorting him.

There's also the "collect these shiny objects" around while killing mobs that wander into your aggro field. Or click on things to make them light up while killing mobs that wander into your aggro field.

None of it involves multiplayer.

Except for instances.

 

[Mango Elephant]

Some quests are like that, but a lot are really cool. Most quests like that are in the old world, and when Cata comes out the old world will be redone so better quests are to be expected.

 

[cardgame]

Runescape's quests are actually quests. And are fun.

 

[Thrawn]

Vertical expansion means that old stuff (equipment, content etc) becomes obsolete instantly.

That's kind of the point, especially for any PvP side of the game. Level the playing field so that everyone's got the same level of gear available to them, otherwise new players simply will be so far behind that they won't stand a chance.

And from what I've heard out of the Cataclysm beta, the new quests are a massive step up, even from WoTlk, which itself was a pretty big improvement over BC and Vanilla. The difference between Cata and the old vanilla quests(which are pretty much all being revamped/removed/replaced), is night and day.

 

[Akka]

That's kind of the point, especially for any PvP side of the game. Level the playing field so that everyone's got the same level of gear available to them, otherwise new players simply will be so far behind that they won't stand a chance.

The problem is that, when you do it too often, it makes progression and involvement useless, as everyone is auto-leveled to the last tier automatically : why bother to bust your butt just to be there some weeks before others ?