a great problem: Persians are not arabs!

[War Chicken]

Yep, there are plenty of flaws in the spoken languages. As a German I always facepalm, when I negotiate with Bismark and he says "gehen sie weiter" (continue moving) instead of "fahren sie fort" (proceed, go on). This could have been avoided if Firaxis would have just got one native speaker per language to speak (and be able to correct the script if necessary).

But the real horrors for me lie in the localization. I often avoid playing games in German because of bad translation, but I thought "yeah - Bismark has only one big flaw, so why not try the German localized version" so I switched to German. And the first thing I see:

The Barbarian brute is translated with "Bestie". That means "Beast" or "Monster" meaning an animal. Damn, don't you have localization testers Firaxis? "Schläger" or even "Grobian" would have been fitting translations... When I saw this, I instantly thought "Ah, there we go again" and switched back to English.

 

[Tee Kay]

Heh, it's like they're not even trying.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Hey why is it called Persia, shouldn't it be called Iran? That is the name of the place right?

You'll hear several different answers here, but the simple fact is the name Persia is used in the west for the historical empire because that's what the Greeks called them. It's the same reason we have Germany (Deutschland), the Iroquois (Haudenosaunee), and Egypt (Kemet). Actually, come to think of it, it's the same reason we have Greeks (Hellas - Greece was what the Romans called them).

In the context of a western historical game (which the Civilization series undoubtedly is), Persia makes sense. If the goal were to keep everything in perspective, it might make sense to call it Iran to emphasize the surprising degree of continuity, but that's not the context that the game is in. Of course, if the goal were to avoid confusion, the best name would be Achaemenid Persia or the Achaemenid Empire and continue to break it down like this until the revolution when the name Iran began to take hold in the west for political considerations.

 

[MadRat]

I realize the Persia referred to hear was the Persia of antiquity, but wasn't the region we call Iran today called Persia even from the sixteenth to early 20th century??

Rat

 

[anti_strunt]

You'll hear several different answers here, but the simple fact is the name Persia is used in the west for the historical empire because that's what the Greeks called them. It's the same reason we have Germany (Deutschland), the Iroquois (Haudenosaunee), and Egypt (Kemet). Actually, come to think of it, it's the same reason we have Greeks (Hellas - Greece was what the Romans called them).

In the context of a western historical game (which the Civilization series undoubtedly is), Persia makes sense. If the goal were to keep everything in perspective, it might make sense to call it Iran to emphasize the surprising degree of continuity, but that's not the context that the game is in. Of course, if the goal were to avoid confusion, the best name would be Achaemenid Persia or the Achaemenid Empire and continue to break it down like this until the revolution when the name Iran began to take hold in the west for political considerations.

Localisation issues aside... Well, Persians are Iranians, but not all Iranians are Persians... "Persian" is not just a Greek invention either. The Achaemenids were Persians and began their career as rulers of the region of Persia/Fars. Ethnic Persians played a very important role in the empire. It makes as much sense as calling Rome "Rome" rather than "Italy". I'm quite sure the first "Persian" imperial dynasty to refer to their whole empire as "Iran" was the Sassanid.

I realize the Persia referred to hear was the Persia of antiquity, but wasn't the region we call Iran today called Persia even from the sixteenth to early 20th century??

Rat

Iran is a far greater geographical concept than geographical Persia which is essentially the modern province of Fars (in Iran).

 

[Tee Kay]

I realize the Persia referred to hear was the Persia of antiquity, but wasn't the region we call Iran today called Persia even from the sixteenth to early 20th century??

Rat

Only in the West.

Also, what anti strunt said.

 

[Great Cyrus]

Persia is fairly well designed. The architecture behind Darius and the inscriptions are pretty close, he looks close to his inscriptions, and he speaks a language that was the main language of the Empire.

The biggest problem I have with Persia is making a Satrap Court a Bank makes no sense. Aside from that, Firaxis was very fair with Persia. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's not inaccurate either. They did not have Darius speak Aramaic for bad reasons, they did it for historical accuracy for this very specific period of Persian history.

It seems that you work on FRX
So add a sassanid king such as khosro parviz. Khosro=shah, king
Wait I explain some about my family
My family is a great family in iran. We were the king of the southern east state of iran until khomeini government.

 

[daunt]

Can anyone tell me what Ceasar says because it always sounds to me like "f**k off, fellow"

I think he says "hoc offero", "I offer this"

 

[Great Cyrus]

Persia is fairly well designed. The architecture behind Darius and the inscriptions are pretty close, he looks close to his inscriptions, and he speaks a language that was the main language of the Empire.

The biggest problem I have with Persia is making a Satrap Court a Bank makes no sense. Aside from that, Firaxis was very fair with Persia. It's not perfectly accurate, but it's not inaccurate either. They did not have Darius speak Aramaic for bad reasons, they did it for historical accuracy for this very specific period of Persian history.

It seems that you work on FRX
So add a sassanid king such as khosro parviz. Khosro=shah, king
Wait I explain some about my family
My family is a great family in iran. We were the king of the southern east state of iran until khomeini government.

 

[daunt]

It seems that you work on FRX
So add a sassanid king such as khosro parviz. Khosro=shah, king

it makes sense, but we should be realistic: this game is mostly for western market. Western people mostly know Darius and Xerses for the wars against Greece, and Cyrus. If you put less famous rulers, people will say "who is he? where is Darius?".

It's a fact, western world mostly know Persia for the wars against Greece, and ignore much of the rest: Firaxis just gives people what they're familiar with. But it doesn't only regard Iran. People from every nation could complain about something. For example, an italian could complain that he's represented by an ancient warmongering empire while his country (although divided) had been an unmatched centre of arts, literature and science for centuries during renaissance. Or Greece, the cradle of democracy and philosphy, represented by a man who only made war (and was from Macedonia and not Greece!)!

So you see, everyone could feel "offended" in some ways, and that's the reason why nationalism should be avoided at all costs.Firaxis is not putting any civilization under a bad light.

 

[Great Cyrus]

Persia is from Fars, which is a specific region of Iran where Cyrus and his successors came from. The term Iran dates from the Sassanid period.

the arabs sais fars. we say pars so fars is not true.
persians are in right or arabs?

 

[Reginleif]

it makes sense, but we should be realistic: this game is mostly for western market. Western people mostly know Darius and Xerses for the wars against Greece, and Cyrus. If you put less famous rulers, people will say "who is he? where is Darius?".

This is a problem for the entire game. If a civilization isn't Western, they associate it with the west in every possible way. Persia is only important because of Greece, Aztecs because of the Spanish, and Japan because of WWII.

 

[Great Cyrus]

You'll hear several different answers here, but the simple fact is the name Persia is used in the west for the historical empire because that's what the Greeks called them. It's the same reason we have Germany (Deutschland), the Iroquois (Haudenosaunee), and Egypt (Kemet). Actually, come to think of it, it's the same reason we have Greeks (Hellas - Greece was what the Romans called them).

In the context of a western historical game (which the Civilization series undoubtedly is), Persia makes sense. If the goal were to keep everything in perspective, it might make sense to call it Iran to emphasize the surprising degree of continuity, but that's not the context that the game is in. Of course, if the goal were to avoid confusion, the best name would be Achaemenid Persia or the Achaemenid Empire and continue to break it down like this until the revolution when the name Iran began to take hold in the west for political considerations.

excuse me. i think that you are very wise but your your view is not true
the persia is the old name of iran. persians say "Pars" and persia is greek not pars
but iran is the new name of this land
iran= arian's land in which mean that iran is land of persians and parthians and medeans.

 

[daunt]

iran= arian's land in which mean that iran is land of persians and parthians and medeans.

yes, but the empire in Civilization 5 refers to a time when the place was not called Iran, so the old name was used. It would be like calling the Sukhotai empire "Thailand", or the aztecs "Mexico". Empires are considered at a precise point of their history

 

[Reginleif]

yes, but the empire in Civilization 5 refers to a time when the place was not called Iran, so the old name was used. It would be like calling the Sukhotai empire "Thailand", or the aztecs "Mexico". Empires are considered at a precise point of their history

Not to Firaxis. Germanic tribes + HRE + German Empire + Nazi`s = German Civilization

 

[Harrumph]

excuse me. i think that you are very wise but your your view is not true
the persia is the old name of iran. persians say "Pars" and persia is greek not pars
but iran is the new name of this land
iran= arian's land in which mean that iran is land of persians and parthians and medeans.

Sigh...

This game is in the english language first and foremost. What a "nation", civilization or cultural region would be called in whatever "original" language is of no importance.

Also, to digress, your original post has really nothing to do with whether firaxis screwed up languages or not, and is merely reflecting iranian self-image problems. (I'm reading between the lines here, also including your further posts in this thread)

It's a shame that the entire (official) culture in Iran is based around the concept of national identity, pride and martyrship for the nation. This is a very dangerous cocktail, as nationalism (aside from religion and trade/economy) is one of the main reasons for wars and genocides throughout history.

Now, I don't wanna center on Iranians here, I've seen enough other stupid threads on this forum from people "defending" other "truths" about "their" civilization (greeks/makedonians for example) and i'm damn fed up with it.

I think it would be a great idea if moderators created a section for "nationalistic ramblings" and then I could avoid this for future.

 

[Elenhil]

Amen to that.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Nice last words for a thread...
Everyone in here knows that it has completely gone of topic and that any further discussion will only lead to raging about *whatever* in here, so i close this thread now before it happens.

If someone is convinced, that there later another good discussion could go on, then feel free to PM one of the assigned mods here to reopen it, but at the current state it will stay closed.