A Guide to Terrain and Improvements

[abj9562]

Great review!

 

[Manteuffel]

awesome guide, thanks a lot!!!

 

[André Alfenaar]

The other advantage/disadvantage to building on a floodplain is the very rapid growth. In the early game, this will lead to unhealthiness and unhappiness very quickly. Consider not building farms on floodplains right away in order to control your growth. In the later game, these cities will make great GP generators.

In the early game the rapid growth is an advantage instead of a disadvantage. Cities close to flood plains are perfect for the production (by food that is) of settlers and workers. I love it when my first city is amidst flood plains. Unfortunately flood plains mean often that there is unproductive desert close by. And that is the real disadvantage (in the late game). But in the early game flood plain are very strong!

 

[Stuporstar]

I made sure I mentioned that building on a floodplain is both an advantage and disadvantage. I think the point being that you sometimes need to do some balancing when you find your cities growing beyond your capacity to keep them healthy and happy.

Great overview!!! Really.

I'd like to point out some aspects I observed:
1- Your Guide is absolutely useful. However, I think it might be more useful a "terrain-type approach" rather than a "process approach". Actually, when I play I ask myrself "which improvement can I build here?" rather than "Where can I build this (any) improvement?".

2- As pointed out in the fine brokguitars's photo guide to terrain, improvements and city placement (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...&page=1&pp=20), buildin cities DO actually grant some boni (one extra commerce or one extra food or one or two extra hammers!!!). This may represent a significant production boost...I didn't analysed it yet, but there may be a resource whose improvement is not rentable (in FPC terms)/available and therefore justify the foundation of a city in its tile...any suggestions?

3- The chopped-forests hammer bonus varies indipendently of (or at least does not depend only on) the game speed setting. I've only played normal speed so far and I've experienced juicy 56 hammers boni!

4- In my last game I wasn't able to build a watermill on a floodplain...quite strange..and annoying


Thanks a lot and comments are highly welcomed!!

Thanks for some of the insights Kalder!
1. I decided to approach the improvements this way because when you click on a worker and (I forget, I think it's a left-click and drag) hover the mouse over a tile without moving him there, it displays a list of all the potential improvements the worker can build there. Since that info was readily available in the game, I decided to take the other approach in my guide.

2. I've added some of Brokguitar's info about settling on resources to the guide, with due credit and a link.

3. I've experienced varying numbers of hammers from chopping, but so far haven't figured out the modifiers yet. Perhaps this will become clearer as everyone has a chance to play the game more. Perhaps a thread about it should be started in the parent strategy forum.

4. That is quite strange. I haven't experienced that myself.

Have you found proof of a health bonus from oasis? I was unable to get a health bonus in testing city placements.

I haven't yet figured this out myself. I'm really not sure if there is a health bonus.

 

[kalder]

I've read the interesting thread "Worker first, then settler" in Civ4 Strategy & tip, in particular post #33 by woundedknight. He thinks that the chop bonus depends on the total production boni granted to the city where the bonus goes.
Ex.: If you have organized religion you get +25% to building production; if you have stone/marble you get +100% on some wonder production. Those increases should reflect on your hammer bonus...
Unfortunately I'm at work and I can't test this solution in the game...

 

[I3lack]

Amazing, thank you

 

[CiverDan]

The Guide mentioned Floodplain Wheat. I have yet to see a Floodplain Wheat. I assumed that was taken out. Can anyone confirm that?

 

[Stuporstar]

I've never seen wheat on a floodplain. I think they've rigged the map generator so that you don't get food on a floodplain because it's too overpowered.

 

[Prince David]

I haven't been able to really check, but do you get the bonus production if you build a farm (for example) on a forested tile? The improvement makes the forest go away, but is that the same as chopping it down then building the improvement?

If not, then this is a critical thing to keep in mind. I've gotten into the habit of just building over jungles, but chop-building over forests.

 

[Stuporstar]

You get the bonus production from chopping a forest if you build any kind of improvement over a forest that replaces it. You are probably just wasting turns chopping before you build the improvement.

 

[Stuporstar]

I just wanted to mention that yes, you DO get a +2 health bonus for building a city next to an Oasis. I just checked this and found out. However, the +2 bonus from fresh water is not cumulative as it is with forests, so if you build near a river and have an oasis somewhere on the other side of your city you still only get a total of +2 health from a fresh water source.

 

[Aminor]

Thanks for all the information, discussion and refinement. In reading along I double-checked in a saved game so can also confirm that cities by an Oasis get +2 heath.

 

[Grogs]

You get the bonus production from chopping a forest if you build any kind of improvement over a forest that replaces it. You are probably just wasting turns chopping before you build the improvement.

I'd have to check, but I thought the # of turns was the same whether you chopped then farmed, or just hit 'farm' while the forest was still there. Also, when do you get the hammers when you go straight to farm? Is it at the very end when the farm is built, or after 3 turns like a normal forest chop?

...

On a slightly different note, does anyone understand exactly how irrigation is chained? Sometimes it seems to pass through a city, and sometimes not. What I mean is this: If you've got 3 tiles, the first is a farm beside a river, the second is a farm that has been chained, and the 3rd is a city. Sometimes it seems I can farm the tile on the far side of the city, but other times I can't.

I also had an instance when I swore that a windmill was passing the irrigation along. There were simply no other fresh water sources around the square. I haven't been able to reproduce that in later games though.

 

[Stuporstar]

I found out the same thing in another thread somewhere, and so must retract my previous statement about chopping first being a waste of time. When you build an improvement on a forest you only get the chopped forest production after you finish the improvement, so it is well worth chopping the forest first in order to get the hammers faster.

I'm going to have to further look into how (or if) irrigation is chained through cities. I'm currently working on a pdf version of this guide now that most of the info has been corrected and verified.

 

[Stuporstar]

I've just figured out that farms should be chained (not sure if there's a bug that makes it not work sometimes) through cities no matter what. The only exception is on Tundra which cannot benefit from irrigation.

I'm now almost finished a complete pdf version of the guide, which conatains a lot more info and pictures. Though I'm having a problem getting the file size down to under 500K so I can attach it from the CivFanatics server. I may wait for the patch before I post it anyway.

Edit: 100th post!

 

[KazumaQB]

Can someone sticky this?

I need this as a reference guide.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Actually, I have figured that out, and the extra 1P on a hill has nothing to do with railroads or mines. You get an extra 1P for building a city on a Plains/Hill and it has nothing to do with tech, civics, resources or anything else. This extra 1P is inexplicable, it just is. I think it could have do with the fact that a Plains/Hill has the greatest amount of natural production that a bare tile can have, but why other types of terrain wouldn't have modifiers as well is beyond me. Perhaps it is a bug? Anyway, I have added this note to the guide in the City Placement section.

It's not "inexplicable" or "bug". It's just like previous versions of Civ. Your city center gets the basic production of the underlying tile (not including any forest, which is removed when you settle), except that it always gets at least 1 hammer. Most non-forested tile types only have 0 or 1 hammer when unimproved, so the city center gets 1 hammer. The plains/hill starts with 2 hammers so it still has 2 hammers when you build the city.

I believe that a city on floodplains should generate 3 food in the center, for the same reason. And a city on an oasis should generate 3 food and 2 commerce in the center. I haven't checked those yet, though. Most often, it would be more useful to build the city in the desert next to the floodplains or oasis, rather than on it.

 

[Stuporstar]

Thanks DaviddesJ, what you said made something finally click into place for me!

Actually, it does not generate 3 food on a floodplain or oasis. I was originally confused by this myself, which is why at first thought the plains/hill bonus "inexplicable" because it didn't work that way for floodplains and such (and this was also before I figured out you got a bonus for settling on resources as well). But since that last post you quoted I've figured it out. This seems a little counter-intuitive at first, but it makes a kind of sense; Because floodplain and oasis are terrain features, like forests and jungles, they are removed when you settle on top of them and are left with the base tile of desert. They have made a special case for hills which, is the only terrain feature type that remains when you settle. Your theory is indeed correct.

 

[DaviddesJ]

I confirmed that if you build a city on floodplains/desert, the floodplains feature is removed. So that explains why you don't get 3 food.

The situation with the oasis is different: you can't build a city on an oasis, at all! I guess the game considers it water, and doesn't allow cities on water (even though you can walk there).

By the way, something else that surprised me is that oasis/desert costs 2 movement points to enter.

 

[Allanon]

I believe you get +2 health for having access to fresh water in the city radius. So the +2 health from rivers + 2 from Oasis would not be cumualtive. +2 the from oasis would only be noticed if there wasn't a river or lakes in the city radius.