A little micromanagement stuff

[Osvaldo Manso]

As everybody knows, when a city is about to complete the production of a unit, city improvement or wonder of the world, any excess of production is wasted. For example, if you need just 1 shield to finish the production of an item and that city produces 4 shields per turn, the remaining 3 shields are lost. So, it is wise to remove some of your labour force from the productive squares (those which give you shields) to the trade squares (like an ocean square with fish). Even wiser, especially in the first turns, is to carefully plan ahead the squares worked by your labour force 3 or 4 turns before finishing the production of an item in order to reduce production waste to none.

However, when we look at the mechanics of science discoveries, the process is not so linear. I have noticed that during the first science discoveries there is waste of light bulbs, but after some time any excess is not lost and instead is used for the next discovery.

For example, imagine your civilization is about to complete the first technology. If your civilization produces 2 light bulbs each turn and you just need 1 ligh bulb to complete the discovery, you better adjust your tax rate or that extra light bulb will be lost (just check your science advisor in the next turn and you will notice that the science roster is empty). However, after a couple of discoveries (I don't know if there is an exact number) you don't have to worry about adjusting your tax rate because any extra light bulbs will be stored for the next discovery (go check your science advisor...).

Can anyone throw a little light on this? What are the rules for wasting/saving the extra light bulbs?

 

[Whelkman]

Only a single city's extra bulbs are wasted upon science discovery. If there are remaining cities to process, their bulbs will be attributed to the next discovery.

 

[Osvaldo Manso]

Thanks Whelkman! Now, it makes sense.

 

[Whelkman]

Don't take this as fact, but the game may also burn the subsequent city's set of bulbs bringing up the advancement dialog.

 

[Valen]

I have seen several instances where it appeared that the subsequent city's bulbs were wasted. After much trial and error, I found something else going on. A city cannot complete an improvement or unit and make a discovery in the same turn. If a discovery should have been made in city 1 but that city happened to complete its temple, the discovery passes to city 2. If city 2 completes a phalanx in the same turn, the discovery passes on to city 3, and so on until you get to a city that doesn't complete production of something. If you are in a phase of the game where you doing a lot of rush building, you could be losing a lot of those precious light bulbs.

 

[Whelkman]

Interesting theory. I have noticed differences in discovery times after reassigning construction, but I previously attributed such to some sort of randomization I hadn't identified.

If true, this information creates a dent in my mid-game strategy of Caravan-rushing mass Mfg. Plants. Previously, I had only considered the extra "burned" shields, but it's entirely plausible that discoveries could be passed over ten or more cities in a row as they build Caravans or Mfg. Plants.

 

[Valen]

Now we are starting to talk serious micromanagement.

To get the most out of your bulbs, you need to somehow figure out where your discoveries fall and hold up production for one turn in the discovery city.
If you are making multiple discoveries per turn, you have a lot of juggling to do.

One more detail to note: if you are using caravans to fill up the research box, the first city on the roster, once fully built up, must NEVER build anything else. My first city is home to the navy.

 

[Whelkman]

If you're interested in my attempts to stretch the game engine to its limit:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=217379

I put dozens of hours into that game over the course of two months or so and got a little burned out with replaying two hour turns five or six times, but I'll revisit it eventually. I currently reside at 1160BC, eight long turns to milestone 150. The current map bares little resemblance to 2000BC.

I'm reconciling the loss in bulb production in that Mfg. Plant rushing, while seemingly endless, consumes only 15-20 turns. After all, it's not long before 75 cities producing Caravans generate enough to cover the rest (though I'm sure you'd be mortified with the turn where I generated 40 settlers). After Mfg. Plant completion, rush building is relegated to cities without enough production to economically support Mfg. Plants (3 on the Asia super continent, 4 otherwise).

I have a shot at Future Tech 1600 in this game. I still think that my rush strategy is net effective despite the temporary drop in bulb production, but I'll have to be more careful in the future. Also, even way down the stretch, building 30 SDI Defense structures in a turn is going to wreak havoc with science. Maybe this is the cause of the invisible "science barrier" were I can't seem to discover more than 3 Future Techs in a turn despite geometric increases in bulb production. Also, the rate seems to remain static, despite growth in bulb requirements.

One more detail to note: if you are using caravans to fill up the research box, the first city on the roster, once fully built up, must NEVER build anything else. My first city is home to the navy.

I'm not following; what's the significance of the first city?

 

[Valen]

I was alluding to a technique for attaining research through every avenue possible.
Several years ago, I noticed that the bonus cash you get from establishing a trade route benefits not only the treasury but also the research box.
So I build a city best located for a profitable trade route and send every caravan from there to the distant foreigh city. Once the cities are built up, everything goes toward caravan production.
At first, it takes only 3 or 4 caravans to fill the research box. As the box grows faster than cities, it takes more as time goes on.

While you can use caravans to fill the research box, you don't get awarded a discovery when you fill it. Any additional caravans are for cash only - no more research credit.

So when you go into city check, the first city on the roster is the one to make the first discovery - every time. As long as you never build anything there, you save a few bulbs.

Back to the caravan trick. Lately I have noticed the Babylonians (one of my trade partners) using it. I kept an eye on them for a while with diplomats. They kept building caravans, but they only have one trace route - with London. In a couple instances when they built a ship instead of a caravan, their science slowed down.

 

[Valen]

I'm not following; what's the significance of the first city?

I was alluding to a technique for attaining research through every avenue possible.
Several years ago, I noticed that the bonus cash you get from establishing a trade route benefits not only the treasury but also the research box. If you get 200 gold for establishing a trade route, you also get 200 bulbs.
So most of my production goes to caravans. Find the most profitable route and send every caravan that way.
At first, it takes only 3 or 4 caravans to fill the research box. As the box grows faster than cities, it takes more as time goes on.

While you can use caravans to fill the research box, you don't get awarded a discovery right away when you fill it; that has to wait for city check mode. Any additional caravans are for cash only - no more research credit.

So when you go into city check, the first city on the roster is the one to make the first discovery - every time. As long as you never build anything there, you save a few bulbs.

Back to the caravan trick. I have noticed the AIs (Babylonians in this case) using it. I kept an eye on them for a while with diplomats. They kept building caravans, but they only have one trade route - with London. In a couple instances when they built a ship instead of a caravan, their science slowed down.

 

[Whelkman]

...I noticed that the bonus cash you get from establishing a trade route benefits not only the treasury but also the research box. If you get 200 gold for establishing a trade route, you also get 200 bulbs.

This information is unknown and valuable to me. Thank you; I will check it out.

With this new information in mind, I'll have to reconsider my late game strategy of using SDI Defense structures as a revenue base. Have you weighed mass Caravan production versus the ~15% loss in gross research due to tax increase when not selling structures?

EDIT: On second thought, I recall looking into this previously. I believe I determined that while Caravans generate bonuses equal to or greater than $50 (their cost) on average, SDI Defense was a better value due to reduced resource waste. However, with the obvious benefit of Caravans in mind I can gear cities toward producing around 50 shields per turn whenever possible. I'll likely still need SDI Defense structures due to unit limits, so a hybrid strategy is in order.

 

[Valen]

I play 90% science, 10% luxuries. Caravans alone carry the economy besides boosting research.

I'm sure if you pick the city farthest from your trade partner as the caravan home, you will get significant profit from caravans. I'm getting around $250 each for the Sidon to Babylon run (they don't have rail yet).

 

[Whelkman]

For now I'm stuck with internal trading, though it sounds like building up the enemy may be advantageous. I'd lose trade by giving up the real estate, though. Perhaps I can salvage the poorly managed American capital in my current game. I intended to capitalize on a supposed glitch where destroying a civilization before it founds a city makes the game unwinable by military conquest, but there is no glitch. Instead, I'm permitted to end the turn upon which the game announces that Barbarians have conquered the Chinese and I win.