A mod-mod: "Dune Wars Reduced"

[Ahriman]

Further comments in post 159 (edit was ninja'ed).

 

[keldath]

ok...
well i get it that you cant describe each tech and its purpose.

but,
where in dune universe you can find 90 techs that you can actually give meaning to?
its hard enough adapting dune into civ4.

as i stated on my very first post, some alteration and fiction additions will be made to the game, and logic wont be there sometimes.

in my opinion, theres way too much demand on realism here on the mod from the time i started it.

i agree that some renaming is needed,
but to tell the truth,
ive grown tired of changing and changing every version that we release...ive edited the tech tree so many times over the versions it seems it never ends.

we need to lock down this part of the mod already, along with unit classes.

ahriram, i would appreciate if you can help me "locking" the tech tree, if you can go over the tree, see what tech needs which preqeq and renaming, so i can go over the tree once and for all, so everyone will be happy with it, so me and the rest, can move on building v 1.4.

really hope you can help, as i said, i dont know dune enough to the details so i can know what logical or not on the tree.

thanks for all the stuff your writing.

 

[davidlallen]

"More units" is at best a partial solution; as long as the AI is building lots of 1-move infantry units then it will still tend to have very very slow movement for much of its army.

I think getting the limited terrain roads would be the best long-term solution, though I understand that will take a while to get coded.

I tried a few things. I got limited terrain roads to work in python but it slows the game down by about 20%, so that is probably not useful. I added a "Home Ground" promotion as suggested earlier. This seems to be working. It gives +1 movement to any unit of guardsman unitclass which starts the turn inside its own cultural borders.

So in "my" next release I will add this, and take away roads again.

 

[Ahriman]

It gives +1 movement to any unit of guardsman unitclass which starts the turn inside its own cultural borders.

Ok, this sounds like it should be quite helpful. With this, I would eliminate having 2-move AT/AA units, just leave infantry as those specialists. But I would add some kind of tier1 mechanized unit like a Quad, it takes way too long to get to the "light scorpion" as first mechanized unit in the current setup.

I'd also make sure that mechanized units also get the promotion, so that infantry go to 2 moves and scorpions/vehicles go to three moves within friendly territory. Why build a (lower strength) scorpion if it doesn't have a mobility advantage?

 

[Deliverator]

We should have Trikes or Quads anyway as a nod to Dune 2.

 

[Ahriman]

We should have Trikes or Quads anyway as a nod to Dune 2.

Agreed. I like the idea of a Trike as an extra fast or bonus withdraw chance Ordos Quad UU.

I'd also like to see Sonic Tanks as an Atreides medium scorpion UU, and Devastators as a Harkonnen Heavy scorpion UU (should be the highest strength unit in the game, but only 1 move).

On that thought.... the only Dune game I ever actually played was Dune2 (when it first came out, man I feel old). Was there anythnig in Dune2000 or the other Dune game that came later that we should consider making references to?

 

[davidlallen]

This discussion of UU is a good idea, I just hope keldath does not get too excited and start adding them into 1.4.6

Shall we have a separate thread to store up these ideas?

 

[keldath]

davidlallen...you know me too well hehehe.

yeah make a new thread.

most of the names you mentioned above i made for 1.3 as you know.

lets start with at least 1 for each civ, and this one - needs to be a very good unit to last

 

[Anathema]

Hello Dune Wars creators,

I'm having an issue with Dune Wars Reduced; I get a crash every game, generally within the first ~100 turns, which is reproducible - that is to say, it happens every time at the same turn no matter what previous save I try loading. So I might start one game, get to year 10237 and that game crashes on year 10237 every time with any save; the next game I start it might not crash until year 10245, but that particular game will crash every time at 10245. Needless to say this ruins the mod for me, as while the occasional bug or crash doesn't bother me, this prevents me from ever finishing a game.

-I'm running BTS 3.19
-I've tried Dune Wars Reduced 1.4 and 1.4.4, I get the same crash issue either way.
-I can run Dune Wars 1.3, 1.3.8, and other mods (ex., FFH2, FF, etc) no problem, finishing games without ever getting a similar crash.
-I've tried reinstalling Dune Wars 1.4, then starting some new games, then reinstalling the 1.4.4 patch and trying some new games, every single Dune Wars Reduced game reliably crashes within the first 100ish turns.
-I run custom games with as much of the "optional" stuff turned off that I can, such as the Revolutions mod options, since I've heard that can cause problems.
-The crash always occurs after hitting "end turn".

Attached is a sample autosave, the crash occurs two turns after the save (I tried manually saving on the next turn, just one button push away from the crash, but that save instantly crashes when I try to load it).

I also attached a .txt copy of my PythonErr2.log file, I'm not sure what it means or if it's helpful, but I figure that couldn't hurt.

 

[Deliverator]

It has not been clearly communicated, but to get around this you need to start a game via the Custom Game option and uncheck all the Revolutions game options (Barbarian Civ, etc) before you start the game. Playing with these options on causes the crash. If you turn them off, you should be able to play a full game.

This has come about because of the extensive overhaul of the mod we have been undertaking through this modmod. We are planning to either fix this, or remove these components.

 

[davidlallen]

@ Deliverator, could you add information about the several standard installation problems to the first post in your installation thread? I have just PM'd one of the moderators to sticky the thread.

Also, in 1.4.7, I have locally edited the game options screen so that these options are invisible, and off by default.

 

[keldath]

Anathema hi,

and welcome,

what map script are you using?


@ Deliverator, could you add information about the several standard installation problems to the first post in your installation thread? I have just PM'd one of the moderators to sticky the thread.

Also, in 1.4.7, I have locally edited the game options screen so that these options are invisible, and off by default.

good one david, ive been planing to do this my self later on.

 

[Anathema]

It has not been clearly communicated, but to get around this you need to start a game via the Custom Game option and uncheck all the Revolutions game options (Barbarian Civ, etc) before you start the game. Playing with these options on causes the crash. If you turn them off, you should be able to play a full game.

This has come about because of the extensive overhaul of the mod we have been undertaking through this modmod. We are planning to either fix this, or remove these components.

Yeah, I have unchecked those options, tried to make that clear above.

I'm running Archipelago, keldath.

 

[davidlallen]

I downloaded your save file and ran with python logging turned on. I can reproduce the crash. There is no python log entry. It is possible there was a python log entry several turns previous. The file PythonErr2.log is not as useful as PythonErr.log, but this file will only be generated if you edit your CivilizationIV.ini file to set these options:

LoggingEnabled = 1
MessageLog = 1

This file is in My Documents/My Games/Beyond The Sword. Search for the options, which will have value "0" in your file, and change them to "1". Also, I usually recommend setting HidePythonExceptions to 0, so that if there is a python problem, at least you will know about it due to a popup.

Once you make these 2 or 3 changes, please start a new game, verify that you do not have the four Revolutions related options turned on by accident, and then play till the crash. The autosave file is helpful but I am particularly interested in the PythonErr.log file. If you do enable python exceptions and you see one, the same information will appear in PythonErr.log, so there is no need to separately screenshot or write down the on-screen exception text.

 

[Anathema]

Well, this is odd. I made those changes to the CivilizationIV.ini file you suggested David, and tried a new game, same options/map/etc as before, making sure the revolutions options are unchecked as always. Now this game has crashed a couple times (no error popups, and nothing in the PythonErr.log file) - but this time the crashes are not reproducible. So I just load up my last autosave and I'm able to keep playing another 50-100 turns before I get a crash, which is irritating but playable at least. Anyway thanks for the help, I'm enjoying the modmod and it looks like I'll finally be able to finish a game (one way or another).

 

[davidlallen]

Well, this is odd. I made those changes to the CivilizationIV.ini file you suggested David, and tried a new game, same options/map/etc as before, making sure the revolutions options are unchecked as always. Now this game has crashed a couple times (no error popups, and nothing in the PythonErr.log file) - but this time the crashes are not reproducible. So I just load up my last autosave and I'm able to keep playing another 50-100 turns before I get a crash, which is irritating but playable at least. Anyway thanks for the help, I'm enjoying the modmod and it looks like I'll finally be able to finish a game (one way or another).

Thanks for the additional details. This kind of random crashing is not acceptable. I am not sure how to track it down, but we need to try something. The number of changes between 1.3.x and 1.4 is pretty huge, but it mostly has to do with units/buildings being removed.

I do not have this problem with crashes on my machine. Are you willing to try a few experiments where I give you instructions on editing one of your local python files to see if we can track it down further?

 

[Anathema]

Thanks for the additional details. This kind of random crashing is not acceptable. I am not sure how to track it down, but we need to try something. The number of changes between 1.3.x and 1.4 is pretty huge, but it mostly has to do with units/buildings being removed.

I do not have this problem with crashes on my machine. Are you willing to try a few experiments where I give you instructions on editing one of your local python files to see if we can track it down further?

Sure, anything I can do to help. Although - I take back what I said in my last post, now I've got another reproducible crash. I was able to finish the game I mentioned before, crashing two or three times during it, and being able to continue each time after loading an autosave. No idea why I was actually able to finish that one game, but the next game - with the same options basically, same map type - gave me a reproducible crash very early. I've attached the save file, it crashes exactly two turns after that save (I can't save one turn before the crash or it instantly crashes upon trying to load the save, just like before). Unfortunately there was no error popup and my PythonErr.log file is empty.

Edit: Interestingly enough, if I go back to the "initial" autosave and replay that same game from the start (the game that the autosave below is from), I don't get a crash. I purposely played a little differently, so the game has not turned out exactly like before, and I'm ~150 turns into it so far with no problems. I'm no modder, but it seems like if I can play the exact same game start twice and get a reproducible crash one time and no problems the next time, it can't be anything in the initial game options/map script/etc, must be something that happens during the game?

 

[davidlallen]

Thank you for your patience. I have found the problem and here is a temporary solution. The Atreides have a special ability like drafting, where free units appear in their cities automatically. There is mixed reaction to this ability even existing. However, in both your save games, this is causing the crash. I would have expected a python alert to come when there is a python problem.

Please use your plain text editor to edit file .../dune reduced/assets/python/dunewars.py. Search for the line "self.AtreidesDraft()" and delete it. That is all you need to do.

I will try to find specifically what about this function is causing the problem. But, by successively deleting lines out of this file, I was able to make the crash stop happening.

 

[Anathema]

That's odd, I tried playing Atreides before, and the automatic draft seemed to work - but perhaps I was playing 1.3 at the time and not Dune Reduced. Anyway thanks for the help, I changed dunwars.py as you suggested and my old saves no longer crash, a temporary fix is much better than crashing.. although I did like the Atreides draft mechanic, I look forward to a future version of the Dune Reduced where it can work without causing problems.

 

[Deliverator]

Yeah, I have unchecked those options, tried to make that clear above.

Sorry, I should have read more carefully. Apologies.