A New series: PYL I (Pick Your Leader)

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Went back to my original game.

Spoiler :

Ok, it wasn't as bad as I thought. Teched to industrialism, took 2 of darius's cities and vassalized him. His capital was a great haul, including the pentagon, the kremlin, and about 4 settled GGs.

When I attacked Darius he or Liz(who darius had a defensive pact with) bribed willem to attack me. Willem never did much beyond sending a lone cavalry or two, but immediately after taking care of Darius i moved on to Willem. Could have vassalized him, but i needed the land and pop for domination so i took him out.

Pacal is next on the chopping block, and he doesn't have infantry yet. After that is liz.

Though i'm debating taking out hannibal. His power is higher than mine, but he doesn't have infantry or artillery yet. just cannons and rifles vs my tanks. he does have some gigantic stacks though. I saw about 60 rifles in 1 stack. But bombers and tanks shouldn't have too much problem taking them out.

update

Spoiler :

So that huge stack i saw earlier, i found it. It was in a city he took from Darius or Mansa behind my borders. This was too good an opportunity to passup so i dowed and wiped the stack out.

Wiped out Mansa while I was at it. Now I'm moving on to Hannibal's main lands. I considered taking peace and going after pacal because the war weariness is intense, had to switch to police state, but I doubt hannibal will give me open borders. I'm at 40% pop and land for domination, so looks like the game is in the bag unless pacal and liz manage to get mech infantry before i finish up with hannibal.

 

[Bleys]

I started a new game and I just noticed a huge problem with this scenario.

Spoiler :

I just warrior rushed mansa. on emperor. Unlike normal emperor and even monarch games, the AIs here don't start with any archers so stuff like this is possible. Makes an early rush just too hard to resist and too damn easy. Almost feels like cheating. Should I even bother to keep playing this game?

Hmm, I thought rolo had this problem worked out. We had the same problem with the LHCs not getting their proper starting bonuses. I will look into it.

 

[Bleys]

It appears that we are still missing an element in the WB saves that gives the AIs Archery at the levels that they should get it free. I think the first level the AI starts with Archery is Emperor (IIRC, please correct me if I am wrong, someone), so Monarch and below are correct. They are getting the proper number of bonus starting Units, but since they dont know Archery at Emp, Immortal and Diety, the units end up being Warriors, not Archers.

Rolo and I are working on the problem. Thanks for discovering this BB. The Nobles Club are mostly played at Prince and Noble, with a sprinkling of Monarch players, so I dont think those games are affected by this. The AIs do tech and produce at the proper % bonus, are given the correct number of starting Units, like a worker and 2 "base" units, either Warriors or Scouts, etc etc. Emperor games are slightly compromised though.

Its kind of wierd, because I tried to rush Liz in my game, and she had Archers, lots of them, and I only played it at Monarch. I ended up taking (and razing) 2 outlying cities from her, London had 4 Archers in it by the time I got there. I know the AIs put a higher emphasis on Archery than many Human players, especially the Monarch and below players like myself.

 

[Sleepless]

Elizabeth Epic Immortal - 1600BC

Spoiler :

Map as at 1600BC

First thoughts: As I've just played a game in the immortal university thread I felt duty bound to try immortal again . After seeing start I want to change my mind about the level but I won't.

Second thoughts: I thought Liz would be a strong leader to play. The plan was to start off peacefully. If food rich go for an early philosophical route and look to bulb philosophy early. If riverside grasslands get some early cottages down and try to expand with the cottages paying the high upkeep.

Third thoughts: Start game and thought 1 and 2 go out of the window . Very low on food for a capital. No river for cottages either. Plus side there is a lot of forest to chop. I'm just hoping for iron (nice gap in the forest usually means some sort of resource) in the BFC and paying Pascal a visit.
Have to see how it goes from here.

Regarding scenario at start.

Spoiler :

Pacal started of with warriors instead of archers. Not that I mind of course

 

[Sleepless]

Pretty certain its monarch where the AI start with archery and archers/free worker? What units and how many archers/workers etc I haven't got a clue.

 

[r_rolo1]

Prince AI starts with a archer... Monarch AI starts with a archer and with archery.....

The problem is that the WB is not working as it should be.... I'm not sure if it my mistake or a Bug of the game ( 3.13 introduced another WB related bugs, so I would not be as surprised as that )..... but I'm betting more at the first one

 

[patagonia]

I didn't look at any of the start positions, but took Willem (hadn't had a game as him for a while and I love creative) and played to the end on Emperor (normal speed).

Spoiler :

Turns out that's one seriously strong starting position. With furs and marble in the capital initial research augmented by an Oracle sling for ultra-early monarchy made for a powerful opening.

My early scouting left a bit to be desired as my warrior got eaten pretty quickly and although I'd beelined archery (hunting as a first tech made sense here), I was mainly concerned with finding locations for cities 2 and 3. I actually thought I was isolated for the first 20 turns or so. Had I got the lay of the land sussed earlier, I could have easily boxed in Hannibal with city 3, leaving a ridiculous amount of land free to settle. As it was, I was able to peacefully expand to 10 cities, cutting off the English to the east, Koreans to the west and leaving the north to Carthage. With that amount of land to cottage and the Dutch UB, a space win was never in doubt from there.

Diplomatically, the main task was to get Hannibal to friendly status, since he's the only one of those AI that can warmonger respectably. Once I had DP with Hannibal and Darius (who was teching very quickly despite only having 6 cities due to being part of a Jewish lovefest with Mansa), I could safely forget about military for the rest of the game and focus on getting the ship built. Diplo was straightforward enough with a bunch of peacemongers who love FR and FM as civics. There wasn't a war between anyone all game.

Once I'd won the races to radio and computers, Mansa went cultural dropping out of contention with Darius the closest rival having only 2 spaceship parts built when the Dutch vessel landed in 1906 for my earliest BtS Emperor space win.

On the WB topic (bonuses being applied etc):

Spoiler :

The barbs seemed to be operating at Emperor intensity in my game, but any cities they settled were defended with warriors initially (allowing for some abuse by scouting chariots). I assume that's related to the archery tech not being properly applied?

Thanks to rolo and Bleys for setting this up - it was a fun game.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

Final checkpoint

Spoiler :

Success!

Got Hannibal to capitulate then moved on to liz. Pacal might have been easier, but I demanded some gold from him and I didn't feel like waiting 10 turns to attack him. Liz was too stubborn. I had to take 3 cities from her before she gave up. I also noticed something weird. Her capital was size 1, and multiple other cities were also very low in population.

Pretty sure she was suffering from overzealously building production buildings like in this thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=266173

Glad I stuck with it, and made me realize things are never as bad as they seem. Regarding protective, it's not a bad trait in the late game. CG3 infantry are tough as hell to take down. I got lazy with my garrisons, leaving only 2 or 3 units in captured cities because the AI just had no chance of taking them down. They ate cavalry and other infantry up, and the AI didn't seem to like the low odds they had so they rarely even tried attacking.

 

[Bleys]

On the WB topic (bonuses being applied etc):

Spoiler :

The barbs seemed to be operating at Emperor intensity in my game, but any cities they settled were defended with warriors initially (allowing for some abuse by scouting chariots). I assume that's related to the archery tech not being properly applied?

Thanks to rolo and Bleys for setting this up - it was a fun game.

Spoiler :

You are correct patagonia. We have an issue with the AIs, including the Barbarian AI, I assume, not being given its proper bonuses as the difficulty scales up. They get the correct number of units, but the XML gives it out as "best available unit" and without the Archery tech, thats a Warrior. We are working on it with a WB file expert, Dale from the C&C forums. Hope to have some answers soon, but it doesnt look good. I will update (openly) here. Thanks for spoilering that little tid-bit, if some of these players see the Barb Cities are only populated by Warriors, they will probably run right over with 2 Axes instead of waiting for 4, LOL. No worries though, its all about the fun anyway.

 

[r_rolo1]

@Bleys

Spoiler :

In fact if you give to the AI Rifling and Robotics in the scenario definition and the AI does not start with hunting, the AI will start with Mechs ,regardless of the level ( just tried it )

 

[PreLynMax]

Me.
Protective, Expansive
The All Mighty PreLynMax Empire
Starting Technologies: The Wheel, Mining
Unique Unit: Ballista Catapult (Catapult)
Unique Building: Dark Palace (Palace)
Favorite Civic: Police State

Ballista Catapult Unique Unit for The All Mighty PreLynMax Empire
5, 1, 40
Doesn't receive defensive bonuses
Can withdraw from combat (25% chance)
Causes collateral damage
Can bombard city defenses (-15%/turn)
Starts with Barrage III

Dark Palace Unique Building for The All Mighty PreLynMax Empire
160
+2; +1 per population score, +1; +50% Emergence of Great Generals; Marks the Capitol city of a Civilization

 

[Jerrymander]

Uh, maybe you should actually read at least the first post before you post in a topic. Good job.

 

[PreLynMax]

Uh, maybe you should actually read at least the first post before you post in a topic. Good job.

I know... I was trying to add some humor to this post.

Here's my REAL leader-- Zara Yaqob, Ethiopia (UU: Ottomo Warrior (Musketman); UB: Steele (Monument), Favorite Civic Theorcy

Sorry for the bad spelling, I don't have enough time to spell check, I'm in a little hurry here.

 

[Jerrymander]

Oh wow. You didn't read the first post in this thread. Read it, then realize why what you've posted is completely off topic.

 

[Bleys]

I know... I was trying to add some humor to this post.

Here's my REAL leader-- Zara Yaqob, Ethiopia (UU: Ottomo Warrior (Musketman); UB: Steele (Monument), Favorite Civic Theorcy

Sorry for the bad spelling, I don't have enough time to spell check, I'm in a little hurry here.

What he meant by "read the OP" is that this is an RPC type game that already has a list of leaders you can choose from for this game. In this case, its a choice of 7 FIN leaders, on a Fractal map, each having its own individual starting location on a common map.

If we get the bugs worked out of the WB saves that are currently plaguing us with the higher levels then you are welcome to suggest your favorite leaders for future games of this nature. If we cant work out the bugs . . . well, I am not sure this series will be continued, getting it "right" for every level may just require having a WB save for every level . . . and even THAT isnt the end.

And rolo:

Spoiler :

LOL that is funny.

I dont want you getting frustrated on my account though. I know you want to get the LHCs working properly, and I think that will prove easier than this, maybe a few WB saves, one for Prince and Under, and one for Monarch and above, giving the AIs all Archery in advance, so they start with the proper units. Dont know, still trying to figure out a back-way in using the XML files, but its not looking good, I am pretty clueless when it comes to that stuff.

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

It's still early but I have a suggestion for a game in the future. How about a game with all the American civs?

Roosevelt
Washington
Lincoln
Montezuma
Sitting Bull
Pacal
HC

That's all of them right?

 

[Bleys]

That would be fun, but I can tell you from experience that having multiple AIs with the same civ is a royal PITA. The "Catfight" game had the 2 English ladies, and every now and then Izzy would demand I stop trading with those vile English! I kept shouting "WHICH ONE!!", then laugh hysterically, and my girlfriend was about ready to call the White Coat guys, heh.

 

[Gocho]

Willem update , only had a bit to play it sadly. About 300AD

Spoiler :

After killing Hannibal and looking around wow do I have a lot of land to settle!

Got the build 8 Swordsman event so now I have a large amount of cr3 5xp swords to upgrade when I need them, can't imagine going to war right now though I have a slight tech lead over Mansa and a ton of great land to settle down on first.

The moved capital and it's selected wonders.

My Hannibal's old capital is going to make a good GP farm!

Might not continue this game as it's pretty much over at this point. If I do continue it will be a beeline to Steam Power for the UU then go nuts with my production/great land to take over the world.

 

[siggboy]

The game was the expected cakewalk. Willem really has an amazing starting position on this map. Recommended if you want to step up in difficulty and have an easy practice game!

Some highlights:

Spoiler :

After the "Ouch" event reported earlier I decided to get that city of mine back from the Korean (he left my precious city standing around undefended!) and vassalized him while I was at it , leaving him four crappy cities in a nice buffer zone between me and Mali/Persian to the west. Nothing happened on that front any more, except for several hundred years later when I gifted back one city, which kept revolting, to the Korean.

After that I built up my economy and went to a few wars with the Maya later on, who was a great victim since nobody liked him and I could declare war at will without messing up my relations with others. He would have been a pain in the neck for the entire game, so I ended up vassalizing him as well.

To give you an impression how popular he was with everybody:

BTW this dogpile didn't profit anybody except me, since he became my vassal before any of the other civs could take any city of his.

The wars against him were faught with Maces/Trebs/Knights, and later Cavalry/Rifles/Trebs, and SPIES! God I love espionage to take down city defenses, it makes those wars so much shorter -- no silly bombarding while the AI moves in reinforcements. (When I had to take the Korean capital it was at 125% defense, since the Korean did have Chichen Itza; not a problem with a spy and some planning ahead).

Well, to cut a long story short, from this point on pretty much every victory condition was possible, but I decided to go for Space and give the United Nations a shot on on the way, and to cut a long story short:



for a final score of 83999. (Could have been higher, even, had I really focused on building the UN ASAP and taking the vote home.)

Demographics:

I've learned a lot on this map, finally managed to lead some decent wars without wasting too many resources. Taking those CR Axes into the later eras to have a nice stack of CR III rifles really pays off.

Actually I probably got a tad lucky, with the diplomatic situation developing very much in favour of me. I had an absolute majority for the AP vote all the time, so that was not a problem. My initial tactic of

Spoiler :

• leaping for stone/marble early and going wonder happy
• taking out Hannie at the first possible opportunity
• then keeping wars to a minimum and taking things step by step

worked out really well.

I imagine that some of the other civs will have a much harder time here, since Willem simply gets the best land and best possibilities for expansion, leaving room for error even.

My opponents were teching really fast, as expected, but I never feared a space loss since everybody had obviously a lot less production power than myself. It's quite mindboggling how much synergy I got with this leader production wise, during endgame (Dike + whathaveyou with lots of rivers and coasts = hammer paradise).

Thanks for the map, looking forward to join the next round.

 

[siggboy]

Might not continue this game as it's pretty much over at this point. If I do continue it will be a beeline to Steam Power for the UU then go nuts with my production/great land to take over the world.

Impressive how quickly you claimed that land. Probably I should have played it that way as well. You even have the Great Wall so barbs are not a problem at all.

I agree that it's pretty much over at that point you've shown. Maybe you should finish and try for a really high score. There will be others to compare to, after all.