A plea for a different form of Copy Protection.

[SonicX]

And if it does, even MORE people will pirate it. Trust me.

Yup,
StarForce 3 = I'm not buying but downloading
Reasonable protection = Here you got my 50 bucks

 

[Goombaz]

If the game has annoying copy protection, though, I'll HAVE to get a crack in addition to the original game

You might be surprised...

You don't always need a crack. There are catch all gamebooters and such that deal with many forms of copy protection in a generic way.

Also, sometimes a good enough duplicate can be made that it is a non-issue. Not often but it happens.

 

[FireZ]

My main point is, there are several thousands of people that will not pay for the game. There are several thousands that will buy the game just because its Civ 4 and they are supporting the company that brought them this great game. There are also a couple thousand people that will buy that game just due to the fact that they do not want to mess with the copy protection. There are only a few hundred that will not buy the game because they have to be hindered by the cd in the drive.

Civ 4 has a vast community that will only play single player. There are thousands that will only play the single player, thus rendering your "CD Key" methode good for MP but worthless in this situation.

-edit-
I'm just wondering when having a cd in the drive became such a hinderance that people would go out of their way to pirate the game rather than pay for it? CD key...makes sense. Cd required to play, not that big of a deal. I'll just make an image.

Starforce 3 - crap - won't buy it either. Thats just over eccessive.

 

[Akka]

You might be surprised...

You don't always need a crack. There are catch all gamebooters and such that deal with many forms of copy protection in a generic way.

Also, sometimes a good enough duplicate can be made that it is a non-issue. Not often but it happens.

If the protection doesn't require me to constantly put the CD when I want to play, nor install virus-like crap in my computer, then it's not an "annoying protection" and I don't need to get a crack, as I already said.

If the protection requires my to put my CD each time I play, it's annoying, and I'll get a crack, as I already said.

If the protection put crap into my computer, then I'll refuse to buy the game just out of principle, as I also already said.

 

[oldStatesman]

My main point is, there are several thousands of people that will not pay for the game. There are several thousands that will buy the game just because its Civ 4 and they are supporting the company that brought them this great game. There are also a couple thousand people that will buy that game just due to the fact that they do not want to mess with the copy protection. There are only a few hundred that will not buy the game because they have to be hindered by the cd in the drive.

Civ 4 has a vast community that will only play single player. There are thousands that will only play the single player, thus rendering your "CD Key" methode good for MP but worthless in this situation.

-edit-
I'm just wondering when having a cd in the drive became such a hinderance that people would go out of their way to pirate the game rather than pay for it? CD key...makes sense. Cd required to play, not that big of a deal. I'll just make an image.

Starforce 3 - crap - won't buy it either. Thats just over eccessive.

Can you present links to these studies where you got the numbers...or are they just your estimations? I find it hard to believe so many would buy the game to avoid copy protection...besides it being a fallacious argument. (Buy a product with copy protection to avoid copy protection? Huh? )

Again, the problem has been defined by the big businesses runnning the show...and by arguing for extreme copy protection methods you are playing by their rules. But don't forget consumerism is a partnership...open to negotiation by both parties ... and as a consumer we should have a big say in defining the problem and rectifying it.

If companies designed a 21st century marketing system then copy protection would be no big issue. Instead, they are trying to hold onto the old fashioned ways of doing business. Rather than use a stick, they should use a carrot. Provide great web service, free playable demos, on-demand downloads that must be registered online to activiate, and most important great customer service to keep their customers happy after the sale to provide an incentive to buy so as to get that support; frequent and accurate patches of glitches and bugs....if the price includes true full service, that IS an incentive to buy. Obtrusive copy protection is just an incentive to cause hard feelings, and eventually drive a good number of people into looking for solutions, i.e cracks; a lot of whom would never even be aware such a black market existed if their games or software worked as advertised out of the box and they were able to get real support from the distributor.

The argument that not all are always online is also a straw man. Just about everyone who plays a game or uses their pc's in this day have some form of internet access. How hard is it to dial up for a few minutes to go through an online process - one that is permanent, does not require special disks or software that one does not want on their pc...heck, everyone spends time to download fixes....

I do advocate a mild forms of copy protection...ones that work, are not invasive to the user, and require no additional hardware or software. But we consumers MUST let the distributors know, give us a good product and after market support and we will pay for it ....give us crappy methods, poor support and stomp all over us and we will look to other markets instead.

 

[Leprechaune]

My main point is, there are several thousands of people that will not pay for the game. There are several thousands that will buy the game just because its Civ 4 and they are supporting the company that brought them this great game. There are also a couple thousand people that will buy that game just due to the fact that they do not want to mess with the copy protection. There are only a few hundred that will not buy the game because they have to be hindered by the cd in the drive.

Civ 4 has a vast community that will only play single player. There are thousands that will only play the single player, thus rendering your "CD Key" methode good for MP but worthless in this situation.

-edit-
I'm just wondering when having a cd in the drive became such a hinderance that people would go out of their way to pirate the game rather than pay for it? CD key...makes sense. Cd required to play, not that big of a deal. I'll just make an image.

Starforce 3 - crap - won't buy it either. Thats just over eccessive.

Regarding your edit... The initial post covers the "when it became such a hinderance" but I'll repeat it here for you.

1) I play my copy of the game in multiple locations and it IS a pain to have to cart my disc with me where ever I may be playing the game that day.

2) The disc shattered in my drive.... Publisher does NOT replace broken discs according to their web site. Pain in my ass? Yes.

 

[bt_oz]

I like buying original games such as civ 1,2,3 and 4 not only for the manual which is soooo important. But its good to support firaxis in creating a wonderful series,
however i do agree with 2 points ,
1)cd key with the game
2)A nocd.exe patch, simply because the games now are expensive and its true some cd/dvd drives scratch straightaway on in some instances destroy the disk.

bt_oz

 

[Goombaz]

Can you present links to these studies where you got the numbers...or are they just your estimations? I find it hard to believe so many would buy the game to avoid copy protection...besides it being a fallacious argument. (Buy a product with copy protection to avoid copy protection? Huh? )

Again, the problem has been defined by the big businesses runnning the show...and by arguing for extreme copy protection methods you are playing by their rules. But don't forget consumerism is a partnership...open to negotiation by both parties ... and as a consumer we should have a big say in defining the problem and rectifying it.

If companies designed a 21st century marketing system then copy protection would be no big issue. Instead, they are trying to hold onto the old fashioned ways of doing business. Rather than use a stick, they should use a carrot. Provide great web service, free playable demos, on-demand downloads that must be registered online to activiate, and most important great customer service to keep their customers happy after the sale to provide an incentive to buy so as to get that support; frequent and accurate patches of glitches and bugs....if the price includes true full service, that IS an incentive to buy. Obtrusive copy protection is just an incentive to cause hard feelings, and eventually drive a good number of people into looking for solutions, i.e cracks; a lot of whom would never even be aware such a black market existed if their games or software worked as advertised out of the box and they were able to get real support from the distributor.

The argument that not all are always online is also a straw man. Just about everyone who plays a game or uses their pc's in this day have some form of internet access. How hard is it to dial up for a few minutes to go through an online process - one that is permanent, does not require special disks or software that one does not want on their pc...heck, everyone spends time to download fixes....

I do advocate a mild forms of copy protection...ones that work, are not invasive to the user, and require no additional hardware or software. But we consumers MUST let the distributors know, give us a good product and after market support and we will pay for it ....give us crappy methods, poor support and stomp all over us and we will look to other markets instead.

I won't even pretend to understand all the subtle parts of a "21ST Century" marketing system, but I tell you one thing, at the rate of bandwidth a lot of us cable users have(and we ain't rich folk in most cases), something as clunky as a disc in a box is almost comical. Think Steam, Guildwars, Direct2Drive, etc.

 

[Milan's Warrior]

A plea for a different form of Copy Protection.

I second. I opened a thread about it more than one year ago. It is crazy that in the era of laptops one has to bring the disk around everywhere. ANd untra-light laptops often have only external CD-driver

 

[Nobody]

could they make it so when you log on with a fake IP your game dies?

 

[deo]

what country is that ?

That's not even a country. (Quick tip, it's in europe)

Have you tried building a couple of courthouses and connecting your outtermost cities to a couple of neighbors?

I don't have the gold, tech and resources to trade

Maybe a drill platform over the Atlantic?

You mean this , nope.

 

[civmod19]

I am going to buy Civ IV, but that´s the first game I will be going to buy in years, I don´t know this is valid as an excuse, but, you pay 50 dollars for a game, I pay 150 reais, in the case of the preorder, I will pay 255 reais because of all the taxes both countries have, and yes, I am the only brazilian I know that will actually buy the copy, not only of civilization, but of any game that isn´t a MMORPG. Would you pay 255 dollars for a game?
Not blaming you for the crappy economy in my country, just saying that most of the times I don´t have the choice to buy the game, CIV is worth a little more then a week salary for me and I am actually eating less and going out less so I can buy it, but I am just doing it because I´m a hopless addict, no other game deserves such a blow in my pocket.
(point of this post: Protect all you want, no protection all these years stopped me from downloading a game 2 days after its release, if all, it just annoyed the people who actually bought the thing as for crack sites are more then ready to deal with protection)

Let's do some corrections here.

255 reais is 100 dollars, not 255 dollars.
The mininum wage in Brazil is 300 reais, in the US I think is 1000 dollars (from what someone told me).
150 reais is the default price for registered games in Brazil. You pay half a minimum wage for a game. Most brazilians that work receive two to three minimum wages per month, that is, 600 to 900 reais per month, or 4 to 6 registered games per month. These people dont buy the game, because they want to pay bills, food, clothes and such, then they're not part of the market. But when they take a pirated copy, some big businesses man go crazy about "losing customers", and go putting starforces and other annoying devices in the games. But the truth is: he is not losing customers, he is not losing sellings, because these people, as I say, will not buy the game anyway. Thus, I dont see any reason for this fight against piracy.

 

[fishlore]

Whether or not to purchase this game will become an extremely simple decision if they use StarForce. I simply won't buy it.

 

[m15a]

just for reader's information, can someone summarize what starforce does, exactly? i looked at the page but didn't understand what exactly the hinderances are. also, is this a commonly used copy protection scheme? that is, do we really have to worry about it being used with civilization 4?

 

[Akka]

It prevents the game to run as long as you have installed a program that allows to simulate a CD-ROM. So to play the game, you have to desactivate programs such as Daemon Tools.
It's a kind of virus, plain and simple.

 

[citizen001]

I've learnt thru my long history of computing that no matter what type of protection they invent there will always be a way around it.

 

[Why0Why]

When Conquests came out, I immediately ran to the store, purchased it, installed it and boom!, the disc is not inserted! Put it in another machine, works fine. My Expensive DVD drive would not work with the protection. I had to wait for a crack to come out so I could play a LEGALLY purchased game.

 

[Lahdoz]

I just use drive emulation, no disks to swap, no disks to carry around, just a few clicks and the disk is mounted. It's really handy when disks have data that needs to be loaded intermittantly. The old Myst series comes to mind. It is way faster for the data to be loaded off of an emulated disk (hard drive in reality) than off of a CD or DVD. I use Alcohol software.

Starforce upsets the emulation though, so it may be a problem. I'll wait and see what protection it's got, and probably rage if it's Starforce.

 

[jmk7]

I just use drive emulation, no disks to swap, no disks to carry around, just a few clicks and the disk is mounted. It's really handy when disks have data that needs to be loaded intermittantly. The old Myst series comes to mind. It is way faster for the data to be loaded off of an emulated disk (hard drive in reality) than off of a CD or DVD. I use Alcohol software.

Starforce upsets the emulation though, so it may be a problem. I'll wait and see what protection it's got, and probably rage if it's Starforce.

Starforce is a nightmare to crack. Just try to download and apply a crack and play Splinter Cell: Choas Theory. Almost impossible, unless you have and external DVD-drive and disconnect all your internal optical drives. It's just insane!

People who buy this (CIV4) game, and wish to play this game on a backup-disk/image have the right to do so I think. In this case they need to apply cracks. In some countries this is legal, in some not, in other countries they run lawsuits to prevent this from being legal.
When starforce is being applied on Civ4 people won't be given any choice.

I will pay for this game and will play from an image if possible.

 

[Djc]

Just as a warning, this site has a strict non-piracy talk rule. They can and will ban you.