A plea to all modders - think of the Mac users

[ejday]

Who are these "mac users" you keep talking about?

These mac users are... a bunch of folk that really, really appreciate what you're doing... both in helping us figure out how to use the modding aspect of this fantastic game – and in the bigger picture – for taking the time and making the awesome units that you do.

Thank you, Rabbit – and thank you to everybody here that's helping out your odd MacCivFanatic cousins.

 

[Rabbit, White]

If a mod contains a CustomAssets directory I could take the view that the mod designer knows what he's doing and has warned the user of the possibility of clashes, and I can go ahead and install it into CustomAssets, replacing whatever files it needs to. A graphics mod like BlueMarble would be fine to do this way, I guess. A mod that affects Python or XML files could overwrite an existing text file, deleting a previous CustomAssets mod, unless the mod maker has included the merged text for both mods.

That wouldn't work very well because most mods, even when they are small or just mod components, actually use the mod structure as oppose to the customassets structure (i.e. they go [mod name]/assets/... instead of CustomAssets/...). It's just better to work that way - even if the mod is really intended to go into customassets folder, it's easier to work on and test it as a dedicated mod because it's just more organized and has less potential for clashes with other stuff.
BlueMarble btw can work as a regular mod as well, but because of its nature, it's only natural (no pun intended ) to put it in customassets.

Still, I guess regardless of the form in which the mod comes you could still give the option to put it in custom assets and rely on the user to know what they're doing. Of course again, if the user knows what they're doing and they know that this mod needs to be merged with current CA content then they'll have to do it manually anyway.

It's really just a usability question - do you give an option that would make the program more robust but potentially more confusing, or do you leave it out relying on the fact that in most cases, when said option is needed, it's actually no needed because it's done manually.

I lean towards the latter implementation but this is not a critical application and the world will keep on turning whichever way you go.

 

[Rabbit, White]

These mac users are... a bunch of folk that really, really appreciate what you're doing... both in helping us figure out how to use the modding aspect of this fantastic game – and in the bigger picture – for taking the time and making the awesome units that you do.

Thank you, Rabbit – and thank you to everybody here that's helping out your odd MacCivFanatic cousins.

And thank you ejday

 

[AlanH]

My approach is to minimise the decisions in the installer. I am proposing that the mod maker packages the files up in a zip archive containing one or both of the two top level folders: \Mods\ and \CustomAssets\. My software would then place everything it finds in the \CustomAssets\ folder into the mac equivalent of \My Documents\...\CustomAssets\, and everything from the \Mods\ folder would go into \Program Files\...\Mods\. If the zip file only includes one of these then that's all that will be installed. Does that work?

 

[Rabbit, White]

My approach is to minimise the decisions in the installer. I am proposing that the mod maker packages the files up in a zip archive containing one or both of the two top level folders: \Mods\ and \CustomAssets\. My software would then place everything it finds in the \CustomAssets\ folder into the mac equivalent of \My Documents\...\CustomAssets\, and everything from the \Mods\ folder would go into \Program Files\...\Mods\. If the zip file only includes one of these then that's all that will be installed. Does that work?

Yep, I think that pretty much does it.

 

[Gaurav]

Does this mean SDK mods aren't compatible with mac? I didn't see any of the larger mods lately that didn't use dll files since they all start making use of the SDK.

This isn't the only compatibility issue. Anyone want to try updating Gillmer J. Derge's CvPath.py to be compatible with Macs? We need to calculate the path to where the mods are installed to read ini files. This is the case for most of the best python mods.

 

[Caesium]

I wanted to ask, if my infosrmations are correct, that there will be no possibility to use an SDK mod on Mac?

 

[AlanH]

This isn't the only compatibility issue. Anyone want to try updating Gillmer J. Derge's CvPath.py to be compatible with Macs? We need to calculate the path to where the mods are installed to read ini files. This is the case for most of the best python mods.

It should be possible to adapt that library to check the platform and return the correct paths for the various directories. I can't do it right now as I have other priorities, but if someone else doesn't get to it I'll have a crack at it in the next week or three.

Is that the same as Dr. Elmer Jiggle's library, or does Gillmer J. Derge have another version?

 

[Gaurav]

It should be possible to adapt that library to check the platform and return the correct paths for the various directories. I can't do it right now as I have other priorities, but if someone else doesn't get to it I'll have a crack at it in the next week or three.

Is that the same as Dr. Elmer Jiggle's library, or does Gillmer J. Derge have another version?

Yes, that is what Dr. Elmer Jiggle introduced in his Civ4lerts mod. Gillmer J. Derge is the author according to the file itself. I've often wondered if the two handles referred to the same person. Or if Gillmer J. Derge is the real name. Dr. Elmer Jiggle happens to be an anagram of Gillmer J. Derge.

It is not just detecting the platform. The file uses the Windows registry to find the game's install path and the current user home directory. The import _winreg statement will fail on a Mac. We need an alternate method of getting this information.

The good news is that the code is designed not to need Civ4 running to test it.

 

[AlanH]

I wanted to ask, if my infosrmations are correct, that there will be no possibility to use an SDK mod on Mac?

That's correct. The current version of Civ4 for Mac cannot talk to a separate CvGameCore.DLL file. It has the standard code from this file compiled into the game engine executable. Even if the mod were recompiled on a Mac the game would not read it or use it.

 

[Caesium]

This would mean, all the sdk-mod's advantages can't be achieved by Mac-users?
Thias makes me feel sad. Will there be a time in future, for that Mac-users can play with Windows&SDK-users?

 

[AlanH]

Only if Aspyr, the developers of the Mac version, choose to release a version that can talk to separate libraries. Even then I imagine it will be necessary to recompile the CvGameCore.dll for Mac OS, as I expect the SDK includes some Windows-specific system calls. So mod makers will have to provide their source code for someone with a Mac to recompile. Then there are all the issues to do with maintaining two versions of the mod and keeping them in sync ....

 

[Caesium]

That wouldn't be the problem. It would be just the SDK code.

 

[AlanH]

That wouldn't be the problem. It would be just the SDK code.

I've no idea how these things work, but I'm guessing some modders may not want to pass on their source code. For those that do, your single sentence glosses over a large area of work that has to be done to deliver and maintain the Mac versions.

Someone has to incorporate Mac-specific calls each time the code is updated, recompile it for the Mac, and make it available for download. Some testing will be required to ensure that it still runs with the Mac version of Civ4, and if the Mac version of Civ4 is updated there may be a need to regression test all the supported mods. Links to the Mac version need to be set up from the main site or thread where the mod is publicised and discussed. If a user has a problem there may be work required to determine whether it's due to the original mod or the Mac-ified version.

All of the above has to be done, probably by a rather small number of technically capable Mac enthusiasts, for multiple mods.

 

[Caesium]

If mac users want to play these mods, they'd have to do this, for being able to play with Win-users.
That's a little bit "easy said", but that'S the truth, and for the mods, I tested and played, there always is the source code deliviered.

 

[tdb]

I'm a Linux user myself, and I'm annoyed by the self-extracting exes as well. Some of them work with Cedega, but many do not.