A real try at some new traits.

[Antilogic]

From a gameplay perspective, I don't think Diplomatic, Entertaining, or Corporate would work all that well.

Diplomatic really doesn't have a noteworthy effect (open up the hidden attitude modifiers SDK and check out that some Civs start with an automatic hidden -2). It would have to be +2 or +3 to have a considerable effect. Getting a production bonus on a single wonder is not worth having.

You can set the sliders to 5% (I did for my mod) in the GlobalDefines XML file. I'm not sure about tying so much of the bonus to colosseums, though. And again--extra production on just a couple wonders steps on Industrious and is a very minor benefit.

Corporate is only relevant in the late-game; I would never pick it because I have only founded a corporation in 1 of my last 5 games. I think that all traits should have some relevance throughout the game--it can gain or lose influence or relative strength, but all traits should be usable from a fairly early point and remain usable until the late game.

To avoid the (potential) brokenness of the Scientific trait and monasteries, I humbly suggest one of my old creations on the I&S forums that never got much press:

Academic
+1 per population point
Double Production on Observatories, Research Labs

It would need serious playtesting, and I'm guessing that beaker would go down to 3/4 and be fine. Early game, this would help you immensely because even your production cities would generate a few extra beakers. It also gives an incentive to avoid whipping (after all, you are losing extra research with each whip as well). This bonus will lose its punch as the game progresses: after all, Representation + Scientist will produce 6 beakers to the 7 produced by the Academic guy, and a comparison with a town producing 7 commerce with Free Speech and Printing Press is similarly close. To make sure you still feel like you have something later in the game, you get a production bonus on Observatories and Research Labs.

 

[TheLazyHase]

+1 per population point is BIG, especially since it's more +2 or +3 per pop because of buildings. In mid game it would still be pretty potent. The oxford city would gain by itself something like +30 beaker per turn (12 pop, +150%), that's quite a lot in my opinion.

But, the main flaw of the idea, it's that the best way to use it is to conquer the world, since you need a big population. So, academic may not be the good name ; for an "academics" civ I would better see a bonus that help the core city. Maybe something like +20% science on 3 biggest city (number map depend, like representation bonus)

 

[toll_booth]

From a gameplay perspective, I don't think Diplomatic, Entertaining, or Corporate would work all that well.

Diplomatic really doesn't have a noteworthy effect (open up the hidden attitude modifiers SDK and check out that some Civs start with an automatic hidden -2). It would have to be +2 or +3 to have a considerable effect. Getting a production bonus on a single wonder is not worth having.

You can set the sliders to 5% (I did for my mod) in the GlobalDefines XML file. I'm not sure about tying so much of the bonus to colosseums, though. And again--extra production on just a couple wonders steps on Industrious and is a very minor benefit.

Corporate is only relevant in the late-game; I would never pick it because I have only founded a corporation in 1 of my last 5 games. I think that all traits should have some relevance throughout the game--it can gain or lose influence or relative strength, but all traits should be usable from a fairly early point and remain usable until the late game.

To avoid the (potential) brokenness of the Scientific trait and monasteries, I humbly suggest one of my old creations on the I&S forums that never got much press:

Academic
+1 per population point
Double Production on Observatories, Research Labs

It would need serious playtesting, and I'm guessing that beaker would go down to 3/4 and be fine. Early game, this would help you immensely because even your production cities would generate a few extra beakers. It also gives an incentive to avoid whipping (after all, you are losing extra research with each whip as well). This bonus will lose its punch as the game progresses: after all, Representation + Scientist will produce 6 beakers to the 7 produced by the Academic guy, and a comparison with a town producing 7 commerce with Free Speech and Printing Press is similarly close. To make sure you still feel like you have something later in the game, you get a production bonus on Observatories and Research Labs.

+1 per population point is BIG, especially since it's more +2 or +3 per pop because of buildings. In mid game it would still be pretty potent. The oxford city would gain by itself something like +30 beaker per turn (12 pop, +150%), that's quite a lot in my opinion.

But, the main flaw of the idea, it's that the best way to use it is to conquer the world, since you need a big population. So, academic may not be the good name ; for an "academics" civ I would better see a bonus that help the core city. Maybe something like +20% science on 3 biggest city (number map depend, like representation bonus)

+0.5 per pop, then?

Also, I'm thinking that Agricultural's bonus should expire with Biology. Otherwise one could basically have an entire empire of GP farms.

 

[HappyFunPal]

I would like to see a "scientific" Civ like Germany of Civ 3 or Zarkov of SMAC

 

[Antilogic]

+1 per population point is BIG, especially since it's more +2 or +3 per pop because of buildings. In mid game it would still be pretty potent. The oxford city would gain by itself something like +30 beaker per turn (12 pop, +150%), that's quite a lot in my opinion.

Yeah, I acknowledge that completely. I gave that number just as a nice round value for postings' sake...I am guessing 3/4 or 2/3 wouldn't be terribly imbalanced. Of course, the disclaimer is play-testing--I've yet to see this modded in, so we can't know for certain.

The adjective 'Academic' was picked because it sounds more like a personality trait than 'Scientific'--it seemed to me like the old Civ3 traits were more like civilization adjectives and not personal adjectives, if that makes any sense.

 

[MazeMouse]

Some of these are actually in the Rise of Mankind mod. Good stuff!
Spying is called "Deceptive" and gives 2 in each city IIRC.

I do hope we get a lot of these things in Civ V (WHEN it comes) because I've found it to be fun times to see how different traits combine together.
Financial/Scientific combo anyone?
Or Philo/Agricultural?

 

[toll_booth]

From a gameplay perspective, I don't think Diplomatic, Entertaining, or Corporate would work all that well.

Diplomatic really doesn't have a noteworthy effect (open up the hidden attitude modifiers SDK and check out that some Civs start with an automatic hidden -2). It would have to be +2 or +3 to have a considerable effect. Getting a production bonus on a single wonder is not worth having.

You honestly don't think that +2 relations wouldn't be a serious boost early-game, thus allowing for more pleased/friendly relations?

You can set the sliders to 5% (I did for my mod) in the GlobalDefines XML file. I'm not sure about tying so much of the bonus to colosseums, though. And again--extra production on just a couple wonders steps on Industrious and is a very minor benefit.

Corporate is only relevant in the late-game; I would never pick it because I have only founded a corporation in 1 of my last 5 games. I think that all traits should have some relevance throughout the game--it can gain or lose influence or relative strength, but all traits should be usable from a fairly early point and remain usable until the late game.

Unless I can find a way to fix it, I may have to get rid of Corporate. Somebody suggested doing something with Guilds.

Or...I have an idea: With Corporate, mercantilism does not shut off foreign trade routes. And/or, perhaps markets give an additional bonus, say, 10% extra.

 

[ICNP]

Of all of these the only 2 I really like are Enlightened (really cool phungus), and Spying (which should be paranoid to fit with the current naming scheme) For example Stalin being Spying/Industrious sounds weird, but Paranoid/Industrious fits.

 

[Antilogic]

You honestly don't think that +2 relations wouldn't be a serious boost early-game, thus allowing for more pleased/friendly relations?

In a word? No. You aren't getting Friendly relations at the beginning of the game. And usually, not everybody's favorite civic is available yet, so that bonus isn't reliable. The big factor early game is religion and the formation of religious blocs, and given that leaders can have anywhere from an average of +/- 4 all the way to +/-8 or so for sharing or not sharing a state religion, I don't think +2 is a big deal.

Unless I can find a way to fix it, I may have to get rid of Corporate. Somebody suggested doing something with Guilds.

Or...I have an idea: With Corporate, mercantilism does not shut off foreign trade routes. And/or, perhaps markets give an additional bonus, say, 10% extra.

Another alternative is a flat gold boost, kind of like the flat science boost from the science-y traits. In a similar vein to the Charismatic +1 per building, you could examine +2 per market, grocer, and bank as an alternative.

 

[toll_booth]

In a word? No. You aren't getting Friendly relations at the beginning of the game. And usually, not everybody's favorite civic is available yet, so that bonus isn't reliable. The big factor early game is religion and the formation of religious blocs, and given that leaders can have anywhere from an average of +/- 4 all the way to +/-8 or so for sharing or not sharing a state religion, I don't think +2 is a big deal.

Fair enough. But what about the +25% boost for missionaries?

Another alternative is a flat gold boost, kind of like the flat science boost from the science-y traits. In a similar vein to the Charismatic +1 per building, you could examine +2 per market, grocer, and bank as an alternative.

Yeah. Corporate may just have to go--too many other traits related to its long-term effects.

 

[Antilogic]

Fair enough. But what about the +25% boost for missionaries?

I can see that helping, especially if you stay in Organized Religion for a longer period and don't go on Theocratic conquest mode, but that's also situational. I suppose you would value the trait more if you had an early holy city and were pumping out missionaries to get the shrine income up. I might actually increase it to +50% so it matches the Imperialistic production bonus (also since I think the diplomatic effect of the trait is not as strong, I would boost it).

It strikes me as a good secondary bonus that might be appropriate for a revised Spiritual trait as well, although I think Spiritual is fine as-is.

 

[starmanbeta]

Add a watered down version of spying to the traits of protective so that protective isn't such a bad trait.

 

[TheLazyHase]

Add a watered down version of spying to the traits of protective so that protective isn't such a bad trait.

Beware, protective is already a really good trait. It's far better than aggressive once gunpowder is out, because the drill line can be really be nasty. Quarter price castle in the good spot is also something that can be a little broken.

Protective is a underestimated trait. I certainly put it before thing like imperialistic, and it's one of the reason why Tokugawa can be so strong once he attain mid game, if he's not too much outteched

 

[Willem]

Aggricultral & Scientific make sense since they were in Civ3

No they don't make sense, Civ 3 traits were different than the ones in Civ 4. In Civ 3 they described a civ's abilities and focus, in Civ 4 they describe a leader's personality. What personality profile would Agricultural fit in to?

 

[Antilogic]

Protective is a underestimated trait. I certainly put it before thing like imperialistic, and it's one of the reason why Tokugawa can be so strong once he attain mid game, if he's not too much outteched

Tokugawa is always out-teched because he doesn't trade, although that's more of a failing of the AI and not of the traits themselves.

No they don't make sense, Civ 3 traits were different than the ones in Civ 4. In Civ 3 they described a civ's abilities and focus, in Civ 4 they describe a leader's personality. What personality profile would Agricultural fit in to?

I agree 100%.