A Reflection on Movement Costs

CGPanama

Warlord
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Sep 22, 2010
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Although mentioned in several of the individual posts, I thought this feature was worth a wider discussion on its strategic impact...

To me, one of the subtler but more intriguing changes that has come out of the gameplay videos was the change to how movement costs are used up. My understanding is that you can no longer enter a tile, unless you have enough available movement points to enter. So as Marbozir showed, a scout with 2 out of 3 movement points cannot move first to a grasslands (1 cost) then into hills (2 cost).

First, I think it is important to note that the scout's base movement was increased. This means that in many cases he will still be able to move twice per turn, but not if both tiles have a 2 cost movement. Other base units that I noticed included warrior and builder (2 movement points) and horseman (4). So now units like the warrior will only be able to enter the hills if they start the turn next to the hills. I think as a base, this requires better planning and strategy in the movement of units than the current system.

Now for some speculation... I can see how this can add more layers to the gameplay than the 1 point allows all movement. For example, what if certain units (i.e. trebuchet) can only have 1 movement point. Heck those things are pretty hard to push up into the hills. But then you attach a melee unit as support and suddenly they can push it up into the hills, at maybe the cost of any melee strength. They can then unattached and move on leaving the trebuchet atop a hill. Further you can have previously impassable areas like mountains that now require, say 5 movement points. Only later units might have that ability to enter since it requires the full points. Then there are particular movements that generate penalties, i.e. crossing a river, disembarking.

Also, this allows the promotions and roads to reduce movement costs to 1 under certain circumstances. For example a woodsman bonus reduces costs when entering a forest. Amphibious promotion can reduce the penalty for disembarking, etc.

Finally, I can see this enhancing the combat system. Perhaps requiring a full, or certain amount of movement points to attack, with a penalty if previously moved. You can't quick march your infantry to the front lines and expect it to be fresh for combat compared to a unit that has been fortified on a position since the previous turn.

In many ways, I believe this change evolves the current movement system in a way that allows more nuance to the cost/bonus structure than the existing system.
 
Well, I hope they do something with it, because at the moment I can only think about negative consequences:

- You'll end up in situations where you have 1 Movement left and must hit Space/the Wait Button (not the end of the world but I imagine that could be annoying, especially if you don't realize it immediately)
- It will increase the chance that, if you send multiple units towards a destination they stand in each others way as they try to avoid the now significantly slower terrain
- The AI will get serious problems if it's not improved in a way that makes it "think ahead" instead of moving its units one after the other
- And (as Thormodr said in another thread) it could increase the general risk of traffic jams

On the neutral side of things from what we've seen in the screenshots and gameplay footage the terrain seems to be more open in general, so maybe all of these things are less of a problem overall.

I definitely see the potential for more strategic play int he new system - and I really hope they make use of it, because I think that's a lot of critical negatives that they need to make up for to really make it worth the annoyances that may occur.
 
What about tiles with both forest and hills, do these require 3 movement points or just 2? In civ V it would require 3 afaik, but if that is the case in civ vi too it would be a problem for all those 2mp-units.
 
What about tiles with both forest and hills, do these require 3 movement points or just 2? In civ V it would require 3 afaik, but if that is the case in civ vi too it would be a problem for all those 2mp-units.

I didn't think of that, but this might make sense if done properly. I can see it possible that melee units would IRL rather travel around a forested hill than through it without proper training.

Likewise, I wondered if jungle tiles would be harder than forest; I would rather walk through the forests of New England than the jungles of the Amazon. Also I always thought that it was too easy to travel through deserts and arctic regions in the early game. Creating a greater variety of movement experience would be nice and matches up with their goals of allowing gameplay to be more situational and less by rote.
 
It is just a continuation on why they went with tiles shaped as hexagons instead of squares.

With squares, if you made a diagonal move you basically made two moves in one move.

In civilization V some terrains cost two or more moves but you can enter them if you have only one move left, this mean you can get a free move. Like if you are next to a hill you can enter the hill and thats your move. If have a grassland tile between you and the hill you can still enter the hill and thats your move but here you did get a free move.
 
That's how units in Warlock Master of the Arcane move. Generally it's not a big problem.

One additional consequence I could think of is - normally you can't attack a tile where you can't move. If that's the case, ranged units on hills can't be attacked by most melee units unless they are already nearby. This would alter tactics and probably make it easier for AI to manage ranged units.
 
That's how units in Warlock Master of the Arcane move. Generally it's not a big problem.

One additional consequence I could think of is - normally you can't attack a tile where you can't move. If that's the case, ranged units on hills can't be attacked by most melee units unless they are already nearby. This would alter tactics and probably make it easier for AI to manage ranged units.

Good catch. I didn't think of that one. It certainly increases the value of setting up ranged units on sheltered/high ground. It also raises the importance of promotions that focus on movement costs. I tend to go generic with promotions up the Drill and Shock chains. But this will make these decisions more important.
 
Good catch. I didn't think of that one. It certainly increases the value of setting up ranged units on sheltered/high ground. It also raises the importance of promotions that focus on movement costs. I tend to go generic with promotions up the Drill and Shock chains. But this will make these decisions more important.

I don't think we'll have promotions in Civ6, much less likely the Civ5-style ones with rough/plain terrain. In the videos we didn't see anything about promotions and they don't fit well into corps/army mechanic.
 
That's how units in Warlock Master of the Arcane move. Generally it's not a big problem.

And, IIRC, this is how things were on Civ I and Civ II at least, too.

It's an interesting discussion why they are going back to this system, and both pros (need to think ahead, potentially opening unit capabilities like "move costs 1 less in X terrain") and cons (AI management, frustration when you miss the aditional move point...) have been discussed in this article. I'm holding my opinión until I know more on this subject (final movement values and so on) - what it is clear is it is an added complexity to movement. Whether it is an added tactical value or an annoyance is to be seen.
 
I don't think we'll have promotions in Civ6, much less likely the Civ5-style ones with rough/plain terrain. In the videos we didn't see anything about promotions and they don't fit well into corps/army mechanic.

I am not sure that is correct. Here are a couple of screen captures from the game play video:

1Warrior.jpg


2Warrior.jpg


I think it looks like the second shot has received a promotion. There also appears to be an experience progress bar wrapped around the left side of the unit image.
 
It is good that promotions are not removed. But I expect them to get a major change from civ V. Not as dumbed down as in BE, but such that the AI would benefit equally from it as the player does.
 
I am not sure that is correct. Here are a couple of screen captures from the game play video:

1Warrior.jpg


2Warrior.jpg


I think it looks like the second shot has received a promotion. There also appears to be an experience progress bar wrapped around the left side of the unit image.

I'd say the left green bar is health, not experience.

But the green ribbon like thing seems like a promotion.
 
And down the ribbon, there is a small, additional interface with a bar labeled 'XP'. Didn't notice it at the beginning, so I guess it's easy to miss for others as well.

Wonder why the first unit does not have any of this. Maybe XP gain is triggered by an action? (Killing the first unit or being built with a barracks, maybe?)
 
And down the ribbon, there is a small, additional interface with a bar labeled 'XP'. Didn't notice it at the beginning, so I guess it's easy to miss for others as well.

Wonder why the first unit does not have any of this. Maybe XP gain is triggered by an action? (Killing the first unit or being built with a barracks, maybe?)

The XP bar probably doesn't show up until you have XP to show.

Also, it's tiny and looks tacked on. I suspect it's going to get some UI polish in the future.
 
And down the ribbon, there is a small, additional interface with a bar labeled 'XP'. Didn't notice it at the beginning, so I guess it's easy to miss for others as well.



Wonder why the first unit does not have any of this. Maybe XP gain is triggered by an action? (Killing the first unit or being built with a barracks, maybe?)



Man that is small. I missed it even when I was looking for it.
 
Another note for movement changes is I noticed a builder in the footage was able to cross a river and then build an improvement, so maybe rivers are no longer rough terrain.
 
Another note for movement changes is I noticed a builder in the footage was able to cross a river and then build an improvement, so maybe rivers are no longer rough terrain.

I think it was edited to not show the end of the turn after the Builder crossed the river. The Scout definitely couldn't cross the river without full movement.
 
Originally, I didn't want to be nitpicky (plus, I was too excited over all the other great stuff), but since it's displayed above: does that disjointed UI element bother anybody else? :twitch:

I wish it eliminated the empty space between the End-Turn button and the unit/city popup interface. Just run the popups to the right behind the End-Turn button, even the little decorative medallion can remain. It just looks really ugly floating there unanchored and slightly touching the main interface.

EDIT:

Here's what I'm talking about, did a quick n' dirty edit of it:

Civ6_UI_Connect.jpg
 
My guess is that the Rough Riders' special feature will be ignoring terrain cost penalties. It seems odd to me that the group famous for their charge of San Juan Hill can't actually charge hills very well in game without this.
 
My guess is that the Rough Riders' special feature will be ignoring terrain cost penalties. It seems odd to me that the group famous for their charge of San Juan Hill can't actually charge hills very well in game without this.

I'm expecting/hoping to see that it boosts adjacent units' combat strength like a Great General to show Teddy's charisma in battle.
 
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