A review of the Happiness System

It definitely makes Order much more viable. My 30th city contributed no unhappiness upon founding.
Spoiler :


AI unhappiness situation is also better, instead of all of them being in negatives, only some of them are.
Spoiler :
 
Strigvir said:
It definitely makes Order much more viable. My 30th city contributed no unhappiness upon founding.
Spoiler :


AI unhappiness situation is also better, instead of all of them being in negatives, only some of them are.
Spoiler :
Click to expand...

Good to hear it is scaling a little more cleanly.

G
 
What I don't like about that picture is what I see in all games now: One World mentality. I assume the AI has been taught to be very rational with the Ideology selection, but sometimes too much rationality detracts from the experience, doesn't it? I miss the struggle between ideologies from vanilla and older CBP versions... all games now seem to converge to the ideology that is dominant in the beginning of the selection process, which is utterly boring and destroys the entire ideology system by rendering it irrelevant (the One True Choice syndrome...).

Can we have a little more irrationality here? Ideology has as much sentimentalism as rationalism... if it were only a rational choice, communism would not exist now would it? ;)
 
Aristos said:
What I don't like about that picture is what I see in all games now: One World mentality. I assume the AI has been taught to be very rational with the Ideology selection, but sometimes too much rationality detracts from the experience, doesn't it? I miss the struggle between ideologies from vanilla and older CBP versions... all games now seem to converge to the ideology that is dominant in the beginning of the selection process, which is utterly boring and destroys the entire ideology system by rendering it irrelevant (the One True Choice syndrome...).

Can we have a little more irrationality here? Ideology has as much sentimentalism as rationalism... if it were only a rational choice, communism would not exist now would it? ;)
Click to expand...
Not saying anything against your point, but probably the wrong thread
 
Aristos said:
What I don't like about that picture is what I see in all games now: One World mentality. I assume the AI has been taught to be very rational with the Ideology selection, but sometimes too much rationality detracts from the experience, doesn't it? I miss the struggle between ideologies from vanilla and older CBP versions... all games now seem to converge to the ideology that is dominant in the beginning of the selection process, which is utterly boring and destroys the entire ideology system by rendering it irrelevant (the One True Choice syndrome...).

Can we have a little more irrationality here? Ideology has as much sentimentalism as rationalism... if it were only a rational choice, communism would not exist now would it? ;)
Click to expand...
It's less about irrationality and more about penalties from tourism dominance. In my case the world started as autocracy/order/freedom. But once Dido took the order, and she had the highest tourism output, all autocracy and freedom civs immediately switched to order.
IMO ideology happiness penalty should apply later (like only after choosing a world ideology) or at higher tourism dominance levels.
Apostremo said:
Not saying anything against your point, but probably the wrong thread
Click to expand...
It's quite on point, Ideologies are the part of the happiness system.
 
Strigvir said:
It's less about irrationality and more about penalties from tourism dominance. In my case the world started as autocracy/order/freedom. But once Dido took the order, and she had the highest tourism output, all autocracy and freedom civs immediately switched to order.
Click to expand...

That sounds like it is working-as-designed to me. If I changed anything in that scenario I'd start seeing complaints along the lines of 'why is the AI not changing to my ideology after all these steps?!'

G
 
The thing is Dido wasn't THAT influential over them. Like some basic influence was enough to flip them over.
 
Gazebo said:
I'll make it a little more stringent, but I don't see this situation as too wildly off-mark.

G
Click to expand...

Well, yes and no... ideology is a "stubbornness-driven" thing. The read bear commies didn't say, at any point, "hey, look, Coca Cola has really strong advertisements, no way our RedCola will resist that influence, let's change to Capitalism comrades!!!"... it was more in the lines of "capitalist pigs, let's force them to see the light of our ideas or else!!!"... even if it was not rational.

Vanilla is like that, and I for one like it. In that way, every side really tries to force the others into their ways up to the last minute (and some even to death). CBP right now is more like an ON-OFF switch regarding ideologies, and again, that renders the whole system irrelevant from my POV.
 
It should be modified by flavor and/or some RNG, then. I can imagine some leaders should pick whatever keeps their citizens happiest, while others would struggle to keep their ideology alive to the bitter end. Others still might prefer to have no ideological allies so they can fight more enemies, while some would want to join the cool kids so they don't get bullied around. As for RNG, I doubt you as a human always make the same choices, and sometimes you let whimsy decide. Predictable, 100% calculated play is boring.
 
Aristos said:
Well, yes and no... ideology is a "stubbornness-driven" thing. The read bear commies didn't say, at any point, "hey, look, Coca Cola has really strong advertisements, no way our RedCola will resist that influence, let's change to Capitalism comrades!!!"... it was more in the lines of "capitalist pigs, let's force them to see the light of our ideas or else!!!"... even if it was not rational.

Vanilla is like that, and I for one like it. In that way, every side really tries to force the others into their ways up to the last minute (and some even to death). CBP right now is more like an ON-OFF switch regarding ideologies, and again, that renders the whole system irrelevant from my POV.
Click to expand...

You are asking for 'realistic' behavior from a moderately-complex computer AI. I wouldn't hold your breath. :)

G
 
Small question about the extra happiness based on population;
does it scale with number of cities ?
with eras ?

I have about 14 cities, and 340 citizens, and each luxury grants me a "huge" +2.33 happiness total... That's not a lot :)

Also, since the population almost doesn't decrease upon conquering cities, having to wait 40 turns of revolution for a 43 pop city is really long in normal speed... I think that the length of revolution should be divided by 2, or that some policies / tenets would help speeding up the process.

Autocracy tenets looked very weak in my last game imo. No at lot of help concerning happiness. (only Prora and courthouses). I was really struggling to keep my empire almost happy. (emperor difficulty), I had to constantly max out my science / culture / gold production in all my cities.

But in general, I really enjoy your system.
TLDR: decrease the length of revolution please!
 
Just make that revolution duration scale with influence directly, so 70% influence will mean 70% decrease.
As of right now the duration completely goes away only at 200%, which, for most of the time, happens after the conquest.
 
I agree. Revolutions should be much shorter.

And yes, I think that there should be tenet in Autocracy for further reduction. That would be fitting and useful.

Tourism could modify it too (along with pop loss reduction).
 
Imho, just put a max number of turns on it, maybe 20.

Or just have the revolutions gets shorter as eras progress.
 
I've just started playing a marathon game on huge size.

My initial impressions is that the happiness revamp is very cool. The happiness being broken down into different parts is very new and exciting.

However I'm nearing the Medieval era now, and I find that my happiness is tanking hard. (Wide empire, 9 luxuries, -12 unhappiness)

I have a lot of luxuries, but they aren't as effective anymore. My only option is to build buildings in my cities. All of the types.

This breaks the strategic layer of choosing which cities are for which purpose (production/gold/science/etc..)

Now I'm forced to build the same buildings in every single city to curb unhappiness. I have walls and castles built in every city just for the sake of happiness, even though they have no intended strategic value (defence).

Are there other ways of dealing with happiness I don't know about?

Apart from policies/religion/wonders, etc, as they should be enhancers to the civilization, not basic musts.
 
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