A small step for this mod...

[Thunderbrd]

Ok, Faustmouse, I need to know, very concisely, what it is you would need in the dll. I'd be willing to help provided that it isn't like at the level of implementing multimaps as a whole yet.

 

[Faustmouse]

I'd need a a machanism that will allow units to only found a city on lunar terrain, IF on the excact same plot is the improvement "Habitation Complex" (yet to make). An alternative approach could be to create a mission that allows only said improvement as a target for the "launch to moon" mission for Space Settlers. If such a mission is possible without dll work than this should work as well.

There is the problem with coordinates on special maps, like a map with both earth and the moon, or a map of only europe.
Is there a way to tell a map file where it should "split" and threat the two maps seperatly regarding coordinates?

A new tag for buildings in the "local" "area" and "global" line. The first two should stay as they are (same city only and continents), but global should be changed to "all cities on this celestial body". And then we could use a new tag for "ALL cities".

I THINK this should be all for now, where number 3 is probably the most important one. Is it clear what I mean?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'd need a a machanism that will allow units to only found a city on lunar terrain, IF on the excact same plot is the improvement "Habitation Complex" (yet to make). An alternative approach could be to create a mission that allows only said improvement as a target for the "launch to moon" mission for Space Settlers. If such a mission is possible without dll work than this should work as well.

This wouldn't be TOO hard BUT how do you get the initial units to the moon to build that Habitation Complex? That initial explorative landing would take another mission entirely wouldn't it?

Would it be enough to make some units that can found cities only capable of founding them on Habitation Complexes (or some other specifiable improvement so that you can specify differing types of the same sort of 'tagged for settlement' improvements) in general?

There is the problem with coordinates on special maps, like a map with both earth and the moon, or a map of only europe.
Is there a way to tell a map file where it should "split" and threat the two maps seperatly regarding coordinates?

This is really what multimaps is for. Having two separate maps. You cannot do that any other way really.

A new tag for buildings in the "local" "area" and "global" line. The first two should stay as they are (same city only and continents), but global should be changed to "all cities on this celestial body". And then we could use a new tag for "ALL cities".

Not that I'm 100% sure what the tag is supposed to be... perhaps a prerequisite for the building? But work in this area could easily conflict with the larger plan for multimaps so would have to be taken very carefully. So a lot more exact details would be needed here.

 

[Faustmouse]

This wouldn't be TOO hard BUT how do you get the initial units to the moon to build that Habitation Complex? That initial explorative landing would take another mission entirely wouldn't it?

Would it be enough to make some units that can found cities only capable of founding them on Habitation Complexes (or some other specifiable improvement so that you can specify differing types of the same sort of 'tagged for settlement' improvements) in general?

Yes, in the first case you'd need two seperate missions.

The only unit that can found cities on other bodies is the Space Settler. Normal Settlers have no way in going there. Is it possible to restrict a unit that it can only found cities on certain improvements? That would be extremely handy then!

This is really what multimaps is for. Having two separate maps. You cannot do that any other way really.

That's too bad, but as I said, nothing too crucial. An updated animal spawn script should fix most of the issues with that.

Not that I'm 100% sure what the tag is supposed to be... perhaps a prerequisite for the building? But work in this area could easily conflict with the larger plan for multimaps so would have to be taken very carefully. So a lot more exact details would be needed here.

My bad. I'm a bit rusty on building tags and I thought it would exist for wonders so their effect is applied in all cities, not only the one they are build in. Like this:

<iHealth>
<iAreaHealth>
<iGlobalHealth>

The first gives the health only in the city where the building is built in.
The second gives it to every city on the continent, the last one to every city.

I found it overpowered for a lunar colony when they start of with all the free buildings from various wonders, as well as tons of free specialists.

I just saw this tag exists for specialists as well:
<iFreeSpecialist>
<iAreaFreeSpecialist>
<iGlobalFreeSpecialist>

The "FreeBuilding" tag doesn't have that area and global thingy. It is just global.
Since there is no wonder in game that would place something on every celestial body (yet), I think for it's perfectly ok if the global tag and the FreeBuldings tag is changed so that they only work on the same body (which is with an almost 100% chance earth).

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes, in the first case you'd need two seperate missions.

The only unit that can found cities on other bodies is the Space Settler. Normal Settlers have no way in going there. Is it possible to restrict a unit that it can only found cities on certain improvements? That would be extremely handy then!

I suppose the first mission would be to make it so you could transport a unit from the city to any of a particular revealed type of specified terrain(s).

The second then would make it so you could transport a unit from the city to any of a particular type of improvement on a friendly or neutral plot.

Wouldn't be TOO hard. Then the question on the first one would be how do we 'reveal' the plots so they can be launched to? Would this mean we'd need another mission? Like having new stationary units like observatories that can perform recon missions on any plot within certain longitudes? This, of course, would only work for singular map arrangements and would have to somehow be adjusted if we were working with multi-maps.

My bad. I'm a bit rusty on building tags and I thought it would exist for wonders so their effect is applied in all cities, not only the one they are build in. Like this:

<iHealth>
<iAreaHealth>
<iGlobalHealth>

The first gives the health only in the city where the building is built in.
The second gives it to every city on the continent, the last one to every city.

I found it overpowered for a lunar colony when they start of with all the free buildings from various wonders, as well as tons of free specialists.

I just saw this tag exists for specialists as well:
<iFreeSpecialist>
<iAreaFreeSpecialist>
<iGlobalFreeSpecialist>

The "FreeBuilding" tag doesn't have that area and global thingy. It is just global.
Since there is no wonder in game that would place something on every celestial body (yet), I think for it's perfectly ok if the global tag and the FreeBuldings tag is changed so that they only work on the same body (which is with an almost 100% chance earth).

So this is an issue because not only are we talking about a major project with so many tags to consider but we're also talking about a major project that would differ in nature between the way it must be handled on multi-maps and on a singular map. The way to identify one world from the next on a singular map would be... very difficult to define for the code. Area definitions are already tough to work with. Then to have the code be adaptive to whether we're working with one map or many for multiple worlds... ugh. I'd think it easier to start with working out multi-maps entirely as then the differentiation between maps is already code defined.

And multi-maps, at least for me to work out the rest of the details on, would take a very long and dedicated effort that could span many releases with the cycle length being similar to our last.

The FreeBuilding tag, if I'm not mistaken, does check some prerequisites for the building to ensure it's valid to go into the city (though this may only work for property autobuilds - I've noticed that the free Irrigation Canals from the Pyramids goes into all cities without checking to ensure that the tech prereq for Irrigation Canals is fulfilled, though I don't think they WORK until it is.) So theoretically, you could put some prereqs on the 'free' buildings themselves that could restrict which map they work on.

 

[Toffer90]

I've noticed that the free Irrigation Canals from the Pyramids goes into all cities without checking to ensure that the tech prereq for Irrigation Canals is fulfilled, though I don't think they WORK until it is.)

Oh, they do work alright, getting 1 food per river plot almost an era before others is a bit OP in my opinion. It even works for cities not founded by a river, which is another of the buildings prerequisite.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Oh, they do work alright, getting 1 food per river plot almost an era before others is a bit OP in my opinion. It even works for cities not founded by a river, which is another of the buildings prerequisite.

That is the point of this wonder. Remove it and it is not a wonder. Next you will be asking for the Great Bath not to give an extra pop to new cities because it is two eras before Colonisation! Wonders are wonders they are supposed to be OP or else they are not much use are they - and we have a lot of those at the moment.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It occurs to me that the building prereqs of max and min lattitudes may be very capable of handling some of the requests here.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Oh, they do work alright, getting 1 food per river plot almost an era before others is a bit OP in my opinion. It even works for cities not founded by a river, which is another of the buildings prerequisite.

Depending on your research path, you could get access to the canals before the pyramids if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Noriad2]

That is the point of this wonder. Remove it and it is not a wonder. Next you will be asking for the Great Bath not to give an extra pop to new cities because it is two eras before Colonisation! Wonders are wonders they are supposed to be OP or else they are not much use are they - and we have a lot of those at the moment.

At the risk of going off-topic in this thread, I always wondered why in C2C, Pyramids give free irrigation canals. As far as I know, the main purpose of a pyramid was to help elevate a Pharaoh to Living Godhood. So I'd expect pyramids to give some kind of major political/religious bonus, instead of just improving watersupply. For example, removing the anarchy time from civic and religious change would be a more fitting bonus for Pyramids, although it would trespass on the Golden Age mechanic. There are several other wonders that fit better with water engineering.

 

[Toffer90]

That is the point of this wonder. Remove it and it is not a wonder. Next you will be asking for the Great Bath not to give an extra pop to new cities because it is two eras before Colonisation! Wonders are wonders they are supposed to be OP or else they are not much use are they - and we have a lot of those at the moment.

I was not suggesting a change (although I would personally prefer a change in what the pyramids do); I was informing TB about a game mechanic.

 

[Faustmouse]

I suppose the first mission would be to make it so you could transport a unit from the city to any of a particular revealed type of specified terrain(s).

The second then would make it so you could transport a unit from the city to any of a particular type of improvement on a friendly or neutral plot.

Wouldn't be TOO hard. Then the question on the first one would be how do we 'reveal' the plots so they can be launched to? Would this mean we'd need another mission? Like having new stationary units like observatories that can perform recon missions on any plot within certain longitudes? This, of course, would only work for singular map arrangements and would have to somehow be adjusted if we were working with multi-maps.

The two missions sound alright.
Aren't ALL plots revealed when you research Satellites? If not, then we still have the Apollo Program, which should reveal all lunar tiles.
An alternative would be to have one-shot recon units. They are stationated in an earth city and can perform a recon mission, aka flying to the moon and softland in an area. Revealed in this meaning would be to fully cartography a terrain, so you know where slopes etc are. "Later", you could do this with cameras and scanners on satellites as well, so a single satellite could reveal all lunar plots within a month (1 turn).

Or the whole moon is revealed from the beginning on, but in order to find resources, you have to land a rover there and let it "discover" them. But this sounds like something harder to program...

So this is an issue because not only are we talking about a major project with so many tags to consider but we're also talking about a major project that would differ in nature between the way it must be handled on multi-maps and on a singular map. The way to identify one world from the next on a singular map would be... very difficult to define for the code. Area definitions are already tough to work with. Then to have the code be adaptive to whether we're working with one map or many for multiple worlds... ugh. I'd think it easier to start with working out multi-maps entirely as then the differentiation between maps is already code defined.

And multi-maps, at least for me to work out the rest of the details on, would take a very long and dedicated effort that could span many releases with the cycle length being similar to our last.

The FreeBuilding tag, if I'm not mistaken, does check some prerequisites for the building to ensure it's valid to go into the city (though this may only work for property autobuilds - I've noticed that the free Irrigation Canals from the Pyramids goes into all cities without checking to ensure that the tech prereq for Irrigation Canals is fulfilled, though I don't think they WORK until it is.) So theoretically, you could put some prereqs on the 'free' buildings themselves that could restrict which map they work on.

That are some bad news... The free specialists shouldn't be too bad. After all, wonders are supposed to be powerful and giving your colonists a head start with them is ok.
The buildings are a bigger problem. For example the Irrigation Channels from Pyramides. They don't make ANY sense on the moon. So it would come down to one tag that might need to be changed instead of many.
I was hoping that defining a planet just as "it is surrounded by space terrain" would be enough, but... yeah :/
Maybe a simple solution would be to make a list of all wonders and their relevant free buildings and then have a look on how good they fit and if not find a way to obsolete them at the right time or otherwise prevent them from being on the moon.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You can do missions in XML. They are fairly flexible. Missions in the Missions file basically link text and button. Outcomes in the Outcomes file allow one to replace another due to tech and has some limiting ability. Action/Outcomes are on the unit meaning you only define the missions to the units you want.

With the new Mormon custom religion Camber wants missionaries to upgrade but that would obsolete them and stop you making new missionaries when you get the techs for the new units. The solution is to give them "Upgrade" Missions.

 

[Faustmouse]

Is it possible to have a unit with a mission that will instandly upgrade an improvement?
I was thinking of a Gatherer clone that can construct the upgraded improvment in 1 turn, but will be consumed in the process and it could only be built on the original improvment.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Slaves do that now

 

[Faustmouse]

Perfect

I'll have a look at missions later, thought. I have to make the units first.

 

[Faustmouse]

Currently working on improvments.

1) Is there a way to make an improvment require a bonus to be build?

2) Can you have an improvment with multiple tech requirements?

3) Can you have the text for improvments in your modular folder, the same way that you can do it with buildings?

4) Where do you have to put the graphics? If I want to test them and just use any graphic of an existing improvment, can I just copy the gaphic path over like

<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_IMPROVEMENT_GRAIN_GATHERER</ArtDefineTag>

?

5) I have buildings that require a resource in the city vicinity. I know there was an issue with Stone on Quarries don't qualify as "in vicinity", eventhough it was connected to the trade network. Is there a special tag for this? Or is it just:

<BonusTypeStructs>
				<BonusTypeStruct>
					<BonusType>BONUS_TITANIUM_ORE</BonusType>
					<bBonusMakesValid>1</bBonusMakesValid>
					[COLOR="Red"]<bBonusTrade>1</bBonusTrade>[/COLOR]
					<iDiscoverRand>0</iDiscoverRand>
					<iDepletionRand>0</iDepletionRand>
					<YieldChanges>
						<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
						<iYieldChange>1</iYieldChange>
						<iYieldChange>0</iYieldChange>
					</YieldChanges>
				</BonusTypeStruct>
			</BonusTypeStructs>

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The things to look at are the improvement and build XML.

1. No. Only routes have this.

2. No Yes but only 2 by having one on the improvement and another on the build.

3. Yes

4. If doing it modular you put them in an art folder in the module. I would use the same structure as in the core art folder that way it is easy to move it into core later.

I would copy an existing one to start and give it a new Art Define. Look in the XML/Art folder the file with "improvement" in its name.

5) just that.

 

[Sparth]

4. If doing it modular you put them in an art folder in the module. I would use the same structure as in the core art folder that way it is easy to move it into core later.

Yea, please stick with core paths in your module directory. Much easier to move them to core XML files and to FPK.

 

[Nevets_]

Currently working on improvments.

1) Is there a way to make an improvment require a bonus to be build?

You could get around this by having the improvement be built by a gatherer type unit that requires the resource to be built. And it makes sense that the unit would be consumed once built. Most of the resources that go into setting up a greenhouse or a mine on the moon would be pre-fabricated pressure domes, solar panels, and other infrastructure that gets used up. Simple stuff like plowing roads could still be done by non-consumable units that don't require special resources. And once proper lunar trade gets researched a spaceport building could allow worker type units to built since a constant flow of supplies has been established.