AA04: Victoria’s Aggressive Adventures

We can unload the GM somewhere on the other conty and shift-click on washington and see how much we get. We can start a GA from there too if we want it.

RE HE: I said somewhere I'd like to build it in athenes, as it is a decent cities that needs the culture. Berserkers mentionned starting it in dparta though.
 
Looked at the save, we are in a great position. Nice buildup from negy and berserks :thumbsup:! I am just wondering why Athens instead of Sparta or Shanghai is building the HE.
I had thought that Sparta would be a better HE city, but after food counting I was afraid that it wouldn't be able to support enough citizens to work all those hammers. So I went with Athens as mysty suggested.

@mysty: When I said Sparta, I meant Athens :p
 
Unexpected company arrived yesterday, expecting an afternoon/evening excursion on my boat. How could I refuse? Thus, I didn't get to the game until this morning. I apologize for the delay.

I've got some recommendations.

Domestic: We have lots of infrastructure builds going, mostly Stock Exchanges Universities, Courthouses and Markets. I see that the whipping has continued and in some places, it's been severe: BeiJing will carry anger for an additional 68 turns. The following wippings are currently available:

Argos -- Trebuchet(12) - 2 pop (9->7) - +1 for 15 turns or 240 :gold:
Beijing -- Stock Exchange(20) - 4 pop (13->9) - +1 for 83 turns or 720 :gold:
Canterbury -- Stock Exchange(53) - 5 pop (11->6) - +1 for 23 turns or 792 :gold:
Corinth -- Stock Exchange(53) - 5 pop (11->6) - +1 for 23 turns or 891 :gold:
Guangzhou -- Redcoat(25) - 4 pop (9->5) - +1 for 19 turns or 450 :gold:
Nottingham -- Market(15) - 4 pop (12->8) - +1 for 28 turns or 534 :gold:
Shanghai -- Redcoat(5) - 2 pop (14->12) - +1 for 39 turns or 255 :gold:
Sparta -- Redcoat(4) - 2 pop (11->9) - +1 for 27 turns or 204 :gold:
Verlamion -- Market(10) - 3 pop (11->8) - +1 for 38 turns or 420 :gold:
Xian -- Hindu Missionary(15) - 2 pop (6->4) - +1 for 29 turns or 270 :gold:
York -- Stock Exchange(11) - 2 pop (9->7) - +1 for 33 turns or 399 :gold:

I'm not recommending it, but rather than lose a total of 35 population points, we could buy all those builds for a 5175 :gold:. Currently, our economy can crank out 573 :gold:/turn with all sliders set to 0%.

I suggest we're ready for a major civics change. We need to wean ourselves from the crutch of slavery so our empire can grow. And it seems a little foolish to hold back the potential of THREE former capitals (Beijing, Athens & Bibracte) just to gain the 50% bonuses for London? I'm proposing we: 1) Perform all the whippings listed above after 1 more turn (to reduce the population loses a bit) and then 2) make the following civics changes in the turn after that:


4 turns of revolution is not what I relish for my turnset but I think it's time we bite the bullet and unleash the full potential of this giant empire our armies have secured for us.

Speaking of military, I considered whether to upgrade our stacks to Redcoats or reserve some of the Macemen to turn into city-raiding Grenadiers. While the Grennies have a 50% bonus against Riflemen, the Redcoats have a 25% bonus against all gunpowder units. Thus, I figured Redcoats will serve us for a longer time than the Grenadiers whose prominence fades when Infantry begin to appear on the scene.

Our current offensive force:


It would cost a total of 4450 :gold: to upgrade all our Macemen and Pikemen to Redcoats. (the spearman is our supermedic -- probably won't upgrade him). Additionally, we could upgrade all our Crossbows for 2695 which would provide greater protection for many cities while it would take a total of 8123 to upgrade all our Archery city garrisons defenders.

I make the following recommendation: 3) Upgrade all Macemen and Pikemen. Additionally, 4) maintain a gold reserve of at least 1000 for emergency upgrades of city garrisons as needed in case of invasion. That should help us avoid losing any cities when we declare war. It costs 404 :gold: to upgrade an Archer to Redcoat or 724 :gold: to rush buy a Redcoat in one turn.

We have sufficient gold to perform the upgrades above and leave us with approximately 2200 gold. We have a second Great Merchant approaching the other continent. That will provide us with sufficient cash for either additional upgrades (Galleys to Galleons) and for rush buying infrastructure and a minimum of 2 Redcoats in every coastal city along with a mobile defensive force positioned in the center of our continent.

I have a question:
I am worried abt Washy (or is it FDR :crazyeye:) having SciMeth already, thus GM may not fetch as good a money for trade mission.
I must have a gap in my knowledge-base. How does possession of SciMeth impact the value we get for a Great Merchant's trade mission?

I'm going to ask for some discussion or consensus on the 4 recommendations above because in total, they represent a significant turning point in this game. While this game is ours to lose (we can probably coast to an easy win), I believe the recommendations will permit us an elegant victory.

Meanwhile, I'm going to work on possible strategies for our invasion of the other continent.
 
I agree with all 4 recommendations. I'm a little hesitant with 4 turns of anarchy, but your reasons are sound. Plus we need to plan our attack route and build some galleons anyway.

Yeah, I'm a little confused about SciMethod bringing less gold from Trade Missions as well, but I just chalked it up as my inexperiences :p
 
Yeah, I'm a little confused about SciMethod bringing less gold from Trade Missions as well, but I just chalked it up as my inexperiences :p
If that city has ToA increasing trade income...
ToA expires with SciMethod IIRC.
 
Looks like you spent some time with the save frankcor :lol:

RE your suggestions:

1) :thumbsup:

2) I'd probabely stay in rep to boost the free merchants from merc even further. I'm not sure about US, I use it very rarely. I'd also switch to theocracy. Cost less upkeep (we really have a big empire) and we're building units now anyway.

3) :thumbsup:

4) sounds good too. I don't like rushbuying infrastructure. We generally have enought buildings anyway, I'd rather rushbuy units. I also prefer rushbuying a redcoat to upgrading one as we can use the redcoat still while the garrison needs to stay in the city. Does rushbuying also have a 50% penalty when applied on a build with no hammers invested? In this case we can consider keeping a redcoat in every city's queue to avoid the penalty should we need to buy it.

LKendter said:
If that city has ToA increasing trade income...
ToA expires with SciMethod IIRC.
... trade mission depends on trade route income of the city.
 
1,3,4 OK
2 :agree: on Theocracy and would consider holding off Free Speech if we want to get Nationalism (Nationhood for drafting) anytime soon.
Are we close to kick off a GA (how many GPerson needed for that)?
 
We can start a GA now but then won't have extra cash from a trade mission. On the other hand, 4 turns of anarchy would cost us at least 2200 gold that we could earn by shutting down research for 4 turns instead. Meanwhile we could continue building ships and Redcoats.

I'm almost inclined to go for the Golden Age instead of cashing in. I could land the Merchant right now, then hit Enter one time, then do the trick that Mystyfly suggests at the top of the page and check to see how much cash a trade mission will net us. And then report back?
 
Effects of SciMeth on ToA is answered, so I shall not repeat.

UniSuff is very powerful, but generally short term (apart from the hammer benefit). If we want to use GM for GAge, we could first whip all the markets/stock exchange, then get more money by going 0%, then trigger GAge and revolt as Frank suggested, rush buy all the infrastructure (focusing on research multipliers -- University/Observatories), then before the golden age ends, revolt back to representation.

Why do we want to go Caste? I would stay in slavery esp if we don't want to stay in Unisuff. Slavery is useful in war time for whipping newly captured cities.

Not sure abt Nationhood. While it is great to draft Redcoats, but we only have one candidate city for drafting center: the newly captured Greek city with 3 seafoods (speaking of which we need workboats there!). It will take a while for it to get the Globe up.
 
We can only draft our core cities as it needs to have around 10% English culture in city (if I'm remember well).
 
We need 10% culture and pop6 for redcoats. Thing is happiness will clearly be an issue when we draft as lots of cities have 50+ turns of :mad: from whipping. I think it was partly to avoid more whipping that frankcor suggested cs...
 
While I don't see a strong consensus on some points, I have enough to go with a plan. My original recommendations:
1) Perform all the whippings listed above after 1 more turn (to reduce the population loses a bit) and then
2) make the following civics changes in the turn after that:
3) Upgrade all Macemen and Pikemen.
4) maintain a gold reserve of at least 1000 for emergency upgrades of city garrisons as needed in case of invasion.

Now revised, based on your inputs:

1) I will wait one turn and whip the infrastructure builds as well as any units that make sense (no 1-pop whips). (and yes, my motivation for the change to Caste System was to stop the whipping and grow our cities -- we have lots of happiness potential)

2) Rather than cash in the GM, I will initiate a Golden age in turn 2, after the whippings. The following changes will be implemented:
-- Representation to Universal Sufferage
-- Bureacracy to Free Speech
-- Slavery to Caste (and watch happiness very very closely)
-- Decentralized to Mercantilism
-- Organized Religion to Theocracy (for experience points)

On the last turn of the Golden Age, I will return to Slavery

3) Upgrade as planned above, all Macemen and Pikemen, along with the 2 city raiding Swordsmen.

4) That'll leave us around 2000 gold for some Redcoat (and priority infrastructure) rush buying or for emergency upgrades of city garrisons. We can also lower the research slider if needed.

I'll play tonight and will post either tonight or early tomorrow. It won't be very exciting.

If I missed anything important, let me know.
 
Well, being compulsive is an entirely other topic ;). I see your point. I'lll skip the Caste part -- it'll give us some flexibility for controlling happiness that Caste won't despite the higher costs and flexibility in assigning specialists.

Playing now.
 
As expected, it was a quiet turn-set but not without setback and a blunder or two.

First of all, I did most of the whippings above. Waiting a turn caused a few population points to be lowered and one unit was not whipped. I also did all the upgrades I planned above.

Next, I revolted: as follows:
-- Representation to Universal Sufferage
-- Bureacracy to Free Speech
-- Decentralized to Mercantilism
-- Organized Religion to Theocracy (for experience points)

Based on GreyFox's input I didn't go to Caste system as I had planned and instead avoided whipping any additional builds. Here is the before picture:


And then after:


Overall expenses were reduced a little, research and coinage received a bit of a hit.

BTW, I did the trick of landing the GM on the other continent and using Shift to test various cities just before pulling the trigger. Washington would have given us 4650 gold, two other capitals were around half that.

Next turn, Astronomy came in:


Net result was a good boost in research and coinage. One unexpected setback was that Astronomy obsoleted the Colossus and we lost 1 commerce per sea tile. But the overall boost was still pretty good.

This may have been a :smoke: move but I selected Military Science after that for the Ship-Of-The-Line. I considered Economics but somebody already got the Great Merchant from it.

I had built several Galleys in anticipation of Astronomy. So, I upgraded all our Caravels and Galleys to Frigates and Galleons and built a few more as well. More are on the way to be filled up at London. We have a pretty sizeable invasion fleet sitting offshore there now already. I thought I took a picture but it's lost now.

Another unexpected setback: Theocracy meant we could no longer build missionaries in Xian but it took me a turn or two to realize no missionary had come out of Xian even though I had whipped it in the first turn. Fortunately, two other cities had Monastaries and I rush-bought a few missionaries. Unfotunately, Xian finished its Barracks afterall.

It was while converting 3 of the 4 cities still remaining, I noticed we do not have the Hindu shrine yet. I swapped Beijing over to 3 priests which raised the odds to about just the same as a Great Merchant by the time it was due to birth a new great person. Naturally, we got a Great Artist. :( He's waiting orders in Beijing right now. He can lighbulb some beakers for Divine Right.

He could also either be joined to Athens or culture bomb the city. Which brings me to the biggest setback -- about halfway through my turnset, a Greek revolt occurred in Athens. :(

I swear Pericles culture bombed us because just the turn before, I was admiring the fact that Athens had access to it's full fat-cross. Next turn, bam! It was rioting. I had to pull units all the way from London to sit in Athens now to keep it at 0% change of further riots. The Great Artist could help us get those units back for their intended use -- killing people and smashing things.

(when I heard news of the revolt, I checked my log file to see if Greece had popped a great artist but for some reason, my autolog doesn't record great people? I turned off the autolog, saved my file clicked on the log button to see if it was in there. Naturally, my system crashed. Thankfully, I had saved before doing that so I reloaded, but forgot to turn my autolog on again so I never captured the remainder of the set)

Meanwhile, the fourth and final missionary will arrive at Bibracte in a turn or two.

We are powerful:


A random event:


Big deal, Pericles is already pleased with us.

BTW, why haven't we given any techs to Brennus? He's still pretty mad at us. He did manage to capture a barbarian city on a southeastern island.

So we whipped a bunch of infrastructure, bought some desperately needed stuff in low-hammer cities and built a ton of army/navy. I suspect America is going to be our first target. We ought to take care of this little mess off our southern coast at the same moment we hit the beach on the other continent.


I'm not certain what's in Miami but it shouldn't be much. A few Trebuchets and Riflemen should do the trick fine.

I have cranked up espionage to 10% to get a clearer reading on the other continent's inhabitants.

Military Science will finish next turn. There are 4 turns remaining in the Golden Age. Enjoy.
 

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I would save the GA for the next GA :)
Don't worry about Athens, just apply an artist as the free specialist and station obsolete units there to avoid revolts. Vassals can not win a cultural battle against master.
 
Yes, that's true. But it sure was annoying. I moved some crossbows in there but it still took some Redcoats to completely eliminate chances of revolt.

There's a town in the northeastern corner of Athen's fat-cross. We may choose to farm over it so Athens can work all those workshops. It'll be a hammer-monster by the time it hits population 12 or so.
 
frankcor said:
It was while converting 3 of the 4 cities still remaining, I noticed we do not have the Hindu shrine yet. I swapped Beijing over to 3 priests which raised the odds to about just the same as a Great Merchant by the time it was due to birth a new great person. Naturally, we got a Great Artist. He's waiting orders in Beijing right now. He can lighbulb some beakers for Divine Right.
What?! How come beijing was NOT running those priests? We've made clear that they're a priority I think.

GA definitely start a GA.

FDR got the GM from eco. When I finished banking, he was the only one who had it. In case it matters :rolleyes:

Roster
-- GreyFox - UP NOW
-- Mystyfly - on deck
-- beserks01
-- negyvenketto
-- Frankcor - just played
 
What?! How come beijing was NOT running those priests? We've made clear that they're a priority I think.
Please don't be :mad: I suppose the whipping of Beijing removed the 2 priest. After growing the city governor chose another type of GPerson. Frank forgot to check first, later he realized and corrected.
Anyway it was a :goodjob: turnset.
 
Got it. Nice play, apart from the blunders. But to err is human, so I forgive (;)) your blunders.

I assumed your used of the word "whipped" in the later part of the report meant "rush buy" (as in whipping with money instead of the, erhm, well, whip).

Are we going after Joao or FDR first? I thought someone suggested Joao, but I think it is up to debate.

--
 
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