AAW - Almost Always War

Sorry about the screenie part. I didn't take any while playing. Haven't played a SG for a while.:mischief:
 
Alright , first off sorry i couldnt get a look at the game earlier , been a hectic day.

After taking a look at our cities it seems they both are very food heavy and we need mines asap , Beshbalik has 7 forests and fresh water so we can surely chop some stuff there , imo we should have split up the 2 food bonuses at Beshbalik into 2 cities to make it easier for them to get hammers without farming to much , i guess we can still do this later on with a small overlap somewhere if the team agrees.

Once i start my turns im gonna pillage the pasture and mine at teno , they have no roads in place so we dont have to worry about our archer being sneak attacked.

The sad part so far is we have absolutly no barbs! Even a few barbs would be very nice to get our swords CR 2 promotions , right now we would have to attack hilled cities with CR 1 swords wich will cost us some casualties.

Il stick with the teams plan and take out teo and park toku and see where they will head with their second city.

Got it BTW , gonna play my turns now.

Edit : I missed the 2 workers stack!
 
Im not really sure i would prefer inca on the friendly list , we are gonna do quite some warring so our economy will be hurt .
If we let Inca (financial) build without wars he might run away with a big tech lead. However if we can manage to get him involved in a few wars that might change things but we gotta have something first to bribe him with ;)
 
bihary said:
So how exactly war declarations / peace treaties work in civ4? From my experience, after declaration, it is 10 turns of war before the AI talks. After peace treaty, you cannot declare for 10 turns.

I think parking the Aztec cities is fine, as long as we can keep it up. With 3-4 swords we can take a city even on hills.

A second worker could be good at some point, but maybe we will just take workers from the Aztecs.

Im pretty sure you can get peace in about 5 turns if you hurt them enough , the 10 turns of peace after a peace treaty is unbreakable though .
Aztecs only have 1 worker and thats in teno so i doubt we gonna be stealing that one very shortly.
 
Turn 0 1600BC:
Split up the worker stack , 1 of them still has 2 movement points i rather not waste. Move our archer near Teno to the pasture.

Turn 1 1560BC:
Karakorum sword > sword , pillage pasture near Teno , start roading toward Beshbalik.

Turn 2 1520BC:
Spot a archer / warrior / settler trio near Teno , move out Hill2 archer on mine and pillage it .
Our healed up scout is ready for duty and the first time i move him i get him next to a barb warrior :rolleyes: Troubles ahead .

IBT : Our scout dies

Turn 3 1480BC:
Our teno archer is back in place and fortify's on his forest hill.
Start moving our 2 swords towards the aztec settler trio .

Turn 4 1440BC:
Karakorum grows to 5 and is at his happy limit untill we get the gold mine up and running.
A 2.2 City garrison archer tries to get into Teo , we got a 79% chance to kill him with our archer near it , i take the gamble and lose :cry:
On the bright side we still have LOS over Teo so we can watch every movement and there is no worker around we have to try to keep inside.

Turn 5 1400BC:
Judaism is founded in Teotihuacan
Karakorum sword > sword
Block settler trio from getting on a forest but have to split up our swords to do this.
IBT : Toku comes to ask for peace , offcourse i decline .

Turn 6 1360BC:
Kill a archer from the settler trio with a sword (98) .
He is down to 2.2 though so i give him 2 CR promotions and he gets back to 5.2 . Road to Beshbalik is complete
IBT: Aztecs found Tlatelolco with a huge garrison of 1 warrior!

Turn 7 1320BC:
Beshbalik : barrack > archer
Kill Aztec warrior near Beshbalik with a sword(100) , another archer aproaching . Move second sword next to Tlatelolco so he can get up to 5 XP next turn , the other sword there heals.

Turn 8 1280BC:
Karakorum : sword > axe
Kill archer with sword(90) near Beshbalik.
Razed Tlatelolco
Teo now has a CG 2 archer after a barb attack on the city , looks like my gamble definatly hurt us :(
IBT : Napoleon founded Lyons North of Karakorum

Turn 10 1200BC:
Karakorum Axe > Spear
Our wounded sword needs 4 turns to heal

Situation : I didnt get to pillage / lock Toku out yet , my plan was after Karakorum finishes its spear to send the axe + spear pair to go pillaging Toku and sending the archer Beshalik will finish in a few turns on the hills.
We have 3 CR2 swords and 1 unpromoted sword ready to go destroying Teo
There is a Japanese archer 2 SW of Beshalik so be sure to keep a eye out for him. The copper mine and the rice farm will be done in 2 turns so be sure to MM Beshalik after they finish.

Spoiler :
Turn 60 (1600 BC)
Karakorum finishes: Swordsman

Turn 61 (1560 BC)
Karakorum begins: Swordsman

Turn 62 (1520 BC)
Scout loses to: Barbarian Warrior (0.20/2)

Turn 63 (1480 BC)
Karakorum grows: 5

Turn 64 (1440 BC)
Archer loses to: Aztec Archer (0.39/3)
Karakorum finishes: Swordsman
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 65 (1400 BC)
Karakorum begins: Swordsman

Turn 66 (1360 BC)
Swordsman defeats (2.64/6): Aztec Archer
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
Beshbalik grows: 3
Beshbalik finishes: Barracks

Turn 67 (1320 BC)
Beshbalik begins: Archer
Swordsman defeats (4.56/6): Aztec Warrior
Karakorum finishes: Swordsman

Turn 68 (1280 BC)
Karakorum begins: Axeman
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II
Swordsman defeats (2.52/6): Aztec Archer
Swordsman defeats (5.28/6): Aztec Warrior
Razed Tlatelolco
Swordsman promoted: City Raider I
Swordsman promoted: City Raider II

Turn 69 (1240 BC)
Karakorum finishes: Axeman

Turn 70 (1200 BC)
Karakorum begins: Spearman



Edit : How can i get the screenshots to show up in full size in my post?
Tried to add a shortcut in the middle but it just gave a link to the screenshot while the screenshot also came at the bottem of my post.
 
Shadzy,

Great turns and great report! I am definitely in a team here that knows what they are doing... :goodjob: I will look at save. Let us discuss, if someone shows up in two days, he gets it, otherwise I will play.

I also do not know how to insert images in report... We could use some help there.
 
Shadzy19 said:
Im not really sure i would prefer inca on the friendly list , we are gonna do quite some warring so our economy will be hurt .
If we let Inca (financial) build without wars he might run away with a big tech lead. However if we can manage to get him involved in a few wars that might change things but we gotta have something first to bribe him with ;)

Good point. The Inca are located centrally though, so they may end up small. We should monitor the graphs closely. If they look strong, they will have to taste our sword.
Much food is no problem. Let us use the whip. I like to use the whip when I can sacrifise at least two pops, it is possible for horse archers or for libraries for example.

EDIT: I looked at the save. I have some comments, and questions.
1. how come we have 3 workers? Did we capture any?

2. the copper is inside the Aztec capital (although it does not appear so because of fog of war). Are we sure it is not connected / not being connected?

3. I looked at the graphs. It is rather balanced among the six powers right now. Differences are within 20% in most categories. On a finer scale, the inca are not doing well, and the Japanese and the Aztecs are. So we are in war with the strongest guys, which is good.
 
I wouldn't be too afraid of the tech lead thing. We have plenty of forests around. Prince AI is not going to be able to seriously outtech us on this kind of map before our zerg rush of swords and keshiks wipe them out. If you are really worried about the Inca, as soon as we kill Aztecs or are close to, go pillage park them.

Sucks about the archer at Teo. We took a worthwhile gamble but lost. No biggie.
 
bihary said:
EDIT: I looked at the save. I have some comments, and questions.
1. how come we have 3 workers? Did we capture any?

We already had 3 before my turns , at first i thought we only had 1 but then i noticed our worker pair.

2. the copper is inside the Aztec capital (although it does not appear so because of fog of war). Are we sure it is not connected / not being connected?

Our archer was away for pillaging for 3 turns and after he got back in position the worker was still inside and stayed inside for the rest of my turns , so i doubt they have the copper connected , they have been building warriors also.

3. I looked at the graphs. It is rather balanced among the six powers right now. Differences are within 20% in most categories. On a finer scale, the inca are not doing well, and the Japanese and the Aztecs are. So we are in war with the strongest guys, which is good.
Yup , im surprised how slow some AI's where to get their second city.
We definatly had a very good start , good work team.
In a matter of turns Beshalik will be a very strong city also so we can soon crank out some city's when we can afford it .
Karakorum will build a settler in 6 or 7 turns so i think after it build its spear it should build a settler to go get us our horses for keshiks since HBR is due in 11 turns.
 
The workers are my doing. I built an extra worker after the first settler to speed chopping/improving and a third when Beli got founded. Probably 2 would have been enough but I like having a few extra workers around particularly considering future conquests.
 
I played 10 turns, as I will be rather busy later this week. If anyone shows up to join our team, he can jump in anytime, otherwise we three can push on at a pace that is convenient, if it is fine with you.

Plan for my turns: Repel the Japanese, amass swords against Teo, prepare the foundation of our horse city. Build some cottages, and chop.

1200BC (70)
Everything looks good. Move hurt sword into Beshbalik.

1160BC (71)
Moving swords towards Beshbalik.

1120BC (72)
Japanese archer retreats back to Japanese territory ?!? Worker goes to chop one of our neutral forests. I decide we do not need money, set research to 100%. Now we are loosing 3gpt and sped up Horseback riding to 8. Trade advisor tells me the Inca and the French has no copper nor iron yet.

1080BC (73)
Aztek wants peace. I decline.
Karakorum spear - settler.
Bad news - Teo's borders expand, now the city has 20% defense bonus. Our top-notch swords now have only 28% chance against the top defender. :eek: Before, they had 62%. Methinks we need at least one more sword and better be prepared for heavy losses...
Moved our archer from Beshbalik eastward to provide defense fo our horse city.

1040BC (74)
Beshbalik archer - sword. Population is now 4. Will grow to 5 shortly after our gold will get hooked.

1000BC (75)
Beshbalik sword - axeman.
OK, I am converging on Teo with all we have - 5 swords, 1 axe, 1 spear. Tough call - we still havent parked the Japanese, but we gotta use those city raiders.

975BC (76)
Converging on Teo. attack next turn.
I notice some archers left Teno. Maybe another city-founding attempt from the Aztecs? But the worker is still there.

950BC (77)
Hmm... The Aztecs have 7 archers in Teno again.
OK, let the siege of Teo begin.
Swordsman (cr2, 27%) dies but the top defender archer is down to 1.3.
Swordsman (cr2, 65%) wins, down to 1.6
Swordsman (cr2, 65%) wins, down to 0.6
I promote a sword with cover, it is useful in open land too.
Swordsman (cover, 94%) wins without a scratch, I keep Teo.
Teo is the holy city of Judaism and ivory is in range. Will be helpful with our happiness problems ;)
Spearman enters Teo, will move on towards the Japanese. Move an axeman and a sword towards the Japanese.

925BC (78)
Our fortified archer near Teno is killed by an archer :eek: after killing 5 Aztec archers :p . Still, the parking of the aztec capital is over, and I dont have the resources to reestablish it soon.
A barbarian axeman appears north of Beshbalik. Luckily, we will have an axeman there next turn.
Our axeman-sword pair is moving towards the Japanese. I promote the sword with cover, the axe with shock.

900BC (79)
Karakorum settler - axeman(2).
Beshbalik axeman - archer(3). Gold is online.
The axeman is shadowing the barbarian axeman.
The axe-sword pair sees a Japanese archer guarding a pig hill.
Settler moves to its destination using pre-built roads.

875BC (80)
Horseback riding - Writing(4)
Founded Turfan close to the horses. Starts barracks, working the wheat. Horses are connected with road, still need pasture.
Promoted our shadow axeman with shock and fortified on copper. If the barb axe kills him, we still have an archer and a wounded sword in Beshbalik to take revenge.

This is the end of my turns.

Our situation in Turfan is not very strong. Maybe if the Aztecs come after us en force, we will have to make peace with them. No problem, they have had it, I do not think they will be much of a problem any more. Declare on someone else in that case.
We have a sword, an axe, and a spear to harass the Japanese. They have an army of 2 archers and a warrior that seems to go towards Teo, but it should not be a problem (we have two swords there, an archer would be nice too).
I think with these four cities we have a nice core, let us now consolidate the situation, fortify our cities a bit more and build some libraries. I would build one or two cottages on those floodplains at our capital, and maybe one at Beshbalik too.
Renewing the park on the Aztecs should be done too. Soon we will have keshiks to roam around.
 

Attachments

  • TeoSiege.JPG
    TeoSiege.JPG
    138.7 KB · Views: 86
Nice turns bihary :goodjob:
Lady fortune surely smiled at us , only 1 loss at Teo and 5 for 1 archer at Teno , the aztec troops will piss their pants when seeing even a single troop from us from now on :lol:

After looking at the save i have some comments .
Teotihuacan seems like a very good science city with 3 winery's , ivory , maybe the gold from Beshalik and 2 flood plains to cottage up add in a farm on the grassland and we can work all of these and still have 2 surplus.
If we do this we could make Beshalik our military pump , with 2 food bonuses we can work a lot of hills there . It seems we have to decide soon though as a library there would seem pointless then.

Military wise i would suggest moving on the newly found Japanese city west of Beshalik and wait for catapults to engage the aztec and japanese capitols.

I have a question about Keshiks , how good are these units actually and what will we be using them for , i havent played mongols untill this game and after taking a second look at them i kinda regret going so early for HBR.
As both toku and monty dont seem to have copper/iron online yet swords still seem like a better unit to attack city's with so our keshiks will be mostly on pillage duty untill attacking later opponents right?

Edit : Took another look and noticed the French , Incas and Greek are all anoyed with us for declaring war on their friends.
Our city's have plenty of health so i think we can afford giving our pigs to inca (who only have -1 for declaring on their friends while greek/french have -2) so they will allow open borders with us soon.
The demographics look very promesing!
 
Keshiks are great as they have no terrain movement costs. Most useful if enemy territory is heavily forested/has tons of jungle. Cut their roads with the crazy keshik pillage force and it will take forever for them to get it back up.

Also, first strike makes them better than regular HAs and works well for surgical strikes in the field.

I'd still do sword/cata combo for taking cities mostly unless you don't mind losses. Note that with some flanking promos, you can use the keshiks to wound the top defenders grieviously before your other units going in.
 
shadzy,

Nice analysis on the specialization of our overlapping twin-towns. What you describe however heavily relies on the wines. Without Monarchy, we dont even get 2 foods from them... And I think a library is never a waste. It gives culture, and Beshbalik _will_ provide 4 beakers even if geared towards production. Having said that, we can surely gear Teo towards scientific output, and we are in no hurry to build the library at Besh. Let us build a granary in Teo, and then a library. In any case, cottaging up those floodplains is a good idea. Methinks we want another worker sometime soon. Except I dont know from where... Thanks to god and katank, we do have 3 though, which is not bad.
Turfan can also start with a granary, next player will decide. Turfan will be a reasonable shield-town with two horses, so I think we will build a barracks there.

I started writing. The Inca has open borders with others, so they have it already. We should also get some open borders if possible, then explore with keshiks. I would go for Alphabet next. So we can trade some techs, and we can DEMAND some techs whenever we see fit to make peace. After that, Construction and Monarchy seems like good short-time goals.

Keshiks - I love these guys. They are very versatile and are useful for a long time. Exploration. Pillage. Shock-group. Mobile defense. Clean-up. City softening. :crazyeye: I am sure you will love them too. They ARE excellent against archers due to immune to first strike, coupled with their own first strike. Only problem is they are expensive, so they should be used with care.

With the Jewish holy city, we can start thinking about religious issues... Teo could sometime build a monastery to spread our faith and emphasize its science. And maybe a temple to produce a great prophet for a shrine? The process will be slow, but if we decide to devote one city to religious matters, we can slowly but surely build up some religious infrastructure. What is your take?
 
Shadzy19 said:
Our city's have plenty of health so i think we can afford giving our pigs to inca (who only have -1 for declaring on their friends while greek/french have -2) so they will allow open borders with us soon.
The demographics look very promesing!

I agree. The Inca are not too strong for some reason, and they can become a useful ally. Also, if things go well, we will soon have another pig hooked up near Besh. I would even consider gifting something to the the French.
 
I agree with hiring a priest after we got a temple up to get a shrine , dont forget Teno is the holy city of hinduism also so we will end up with 2 holy city's. Im surprised even stonehenge hasnt been build , its probebly to late for us though.

Toku now has 4 city's so we should try to hurt him sooner then later.
My plans with Teo where long term and Monarchy is still far away as we dont even have Mysticism yet :crazyeye:
So yes we might need a library at beshalik after all even , we might even get some cottages up there .

We indeed need more workers , Karakorum also has 6 floodplains we can cottage , Beshalik still has a lot of forests maybe we can chop some workers?

I doubt we gonna have someone to trade with at first , we gonna have to give out some gifts to net us some trading partners.
We could give Napoleon our only wheat untill we get our pigs at beshalik online , after we are better off giving the pigs since we get a +1h from a granery with wheat.
 
Hi guys,

Trade partner with Napoleon? That bastard declared on me 1/2 way through my turns. I crippled the Japanese, beat back an offensive from the French and nothing against the Aztecs. Kill Aztecs at your leisure.

Save is attached.

Preturn (875): Looks good. Move units.

TUrn 1 (850): Teo comes out of resistance start on granary. Other cities work on swords.

Turn 2 (825): IBT two Jap archers die against our cover spearman in a forest hill (2.6/4) Pillaged mine and road at Kyoto.

Turn 3 (800): IBT a Jap archer suicides against cover swordsman on a hill nary a scratch.

Turn 4-6 (775-725): Uneventful, mostly units moves. Look at the huge brawl outside Kyoto! [img=http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/6331/brawl00009za.th.jpg]

Turn 7 (700): Napoleon declares war on us! Tokugawa gets his last mine at Kyoto pillaged and killed his archer with a sword (4.4/6) and a warrior with a sword no scratch. Another warrior with a sword (4.4/6)

Turn 8 (675): Freshly minted Keshik terminates Toku's chariot.

Turn 9 (650): Defeated Archer in Edo with sword (3.3/6), defeated last archer in Edo with cover spear (0.8/4). Edo razed and 11 gold for us.
Napster's attack stack. [img=http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3677/sstack00006lb.th.jpg]

TUrn 10 (625): Killed the Napoleon attack stack with no losses. [img=http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/7766/defenders00009ga.th.jpg] Retaliatory force on the way. Kyoto sacked for loss of 1 brave axeman. Killed 4 Jap archers there.
 
Nice work on the offense vs the Japanese and fending of the French :goodjob:
Dont really have time right now to look at the save .
Got it and will probebly play in about 7 hours from this post, if i get home later from my meeting it will be tomorrow.
 
Back
Top Bottom