About a Mac version: Some numbers from (yes) Steam

If we're speaking about trends, you have to accept that trends like that are short lived and ultimately mean very little if you're talking about only small numbers in the first place.

Oh, the 200 percent growth rate won't last for ever, of course. And I guess we'll see if this trend ist "short-lived". Some here say yes. I'm saying no.

See, I started out with Linux computers back when it was this guy in Finland and some other nerds on the Internet. And people would say, please, nobody will ever use that crap, they're going to want a "real" Unix server, not some x86 junk. And today, when Linux is the base of companies like Google or the New York Stock Exchange, and Sun is being gutted by Oracle, I remember all that laughter and smile.

So, we'll just have to see where this goes. In the meantime, it would be nice if Firaxis could tell us if it is going anywhere with Civ V. It's a month till shipping (in Europe). Just how long can it take to know if you are going to be including a Mac version or not?
 
Oh, the 200 percent growth rate won't last for ever, of course. And I guess we'll see if this trend ist "short-lived". Some here say yes. I'm saying no.

See, I started out with Linux computers back when it was this guy in Finland and some other nerds on the Internet. And people would say, please, nobody will ever use that crap, they're going to want a "real" Unix server, not some x86 junk. And today, when Linux is the base of companies like Google or the New York Stock Exchange, and Sun is being gutted by Oracle, I remember all that laughter and smile.

So, we'll just have to see where this goes. In the meantime, it would be nice if Firaxis could tell us if it is going anywhere with Civ V. It's a month till shipping (in Europe). Just how long can it take to know if you are going to be including a Mac version or not?
Unix is beautiful bedrock
 
We have some new numbers for Macs on Steam. The percentage of the 25 million Steam users using Macs has dropped from the initial eight to five percent.

I can't say I'm surprised; actually, I had expected to number to go far lower. First, Valve has only released older or second-rate games for the Mac -- what everybody is really clamoring for is Left 4 Dead, not Portal 1. Second, this is the time frame when Apple had the buggy video driver, so dual booting still made sense. I expect August to be low, too, for the same reasons, and also because Blizzard released StarCraft 2 end of July, which runs perfectly on the Mac (just completed the game yesterday, BTW; no, it is not a cliffhanger). I don't think I logged into Steam myself in August at all. We'll see what happens when Valve finally gets an A-class title like Left 4 Dead for the Mac out the door.

For those interested, the Steam website has more detail on the hardware in use. Most popular is the MacBook Pro (look Mom, that's me!), and 83 percent use Snow Leopard, which of course is a 64 bit operating system (for the discussion in the other thread). More than 90 percent have two CPUs, and 4 GB RAM is the most common memory size (which also confirms a discussion we had elsewhere in this forum).

What I would really like to see is a statistic from a new game -- what the percentage of Mac buyers are for, say, HalfLife 2: Episode 3. Or, of course, Civ V. Now that would be really interesting, though I would probably be too busy playing the game on said MacBook Pro with 4 GB RAM and a dual-core i5 to pay much attention :).
 
I haven't been here in awhile but came to check on the release date for civ on mac. I am very disappointed we may not get it for awhile.

You guys are speaking another language from me (I'm not very technical) but if they aren't going to release civ on mac anytime soon, is there any way we can still play it on our macs? Let me say, I need a layman's explanation because I don't even know what steam or a port or any of that is.
 
You guys are speaking another language from me (I'm not very technical) but if they aren't going to release civ on mac anytime soon, is there any way we can still play it on our macs?

Yes. If you have a newer Mac, and are willing to pay for a copy of Windows, you can install a free program called Bootcamp that will let you start your computer as a Windows machine. Not totally trivial, but doable even for the laymen.

There might be other options, but they are more technical (virtualization and such), and we don't know if they will work.
 
I haven't been here in awhile but came to check on the release date for civ on mac. I am very disappointed we may not get it for awhile.

You guys are speaking another language from me (I'm not very technical) but if they aren't going to release civ on mac anytime soon, is there any way we can still play it on our macs? Let me say, I need a layman's explanation because I don't even know what steam or a port or any of that is.
Yes. If you have a newer Mac, and are willing to pay for a copy of Windows, you can install a free program called Bootcamp that will let you start your computer as a Windows machine. Not totally trivial, but doable even for the laymen.

There might be other options, but they are more technical (virtualization and such), and we don't know if they will work.

Isn't Bootcamp pre-installed? It's made by Apple so it's easy to use
 
It's included in 10.6, can't remember about 10.5.

The only user input Bootcamp needs is how the user wants to resize the OS X partition. The only point you can really screw it up is in the Windows installation, if you decide to choose the wrong partition.

You obviously need a copy of Windows as well (so would you for virtualization); the only way around that requirement is by using WINE/Crossover, and that's never really super user friendly.
 
I'm clearing out some space on my HD for a Windows partition. I'm just not confident enough in Wine/Crossover after my experience with it. I went ahead and got Parallels, though.

The problem right now is that my MBP has got some glitch when it comes to 3D. Any game turns it into a snail. So she's off to Apple for repair before Civ5 comes out.
 
We have some new numbers for Macs on Steam. The percentage of the 25 million Steam users using Macs has dropped from the initial eight to five percent.

I can't say I'm surprised; actually, I had expected to number to go far lower. First, Valve has only released older or second-rate games for the Mac -- what everybody is really clamoring for is Left 4 Dead, not Portal 1. Second, this is the time frame when Apple had the buggy video driver, so dual booting still made sense. I expect August to be low, too, for the same reasons, and also because Blizzard released StarCraft 2 end of July, which runs perfectly on the Mac (just completed the game yesterday, BTW; no, it is not a cliffhanger). I don't think I logged into Steam myself in August at all. We'll see what happens when Valve finally gets an A-class title like Left 4 Dead for the Mac out the door.

For those interested, the Steam website has more detail on the hardware in use. Most popular is the MacBook Pro (look Mom, that's me!), and 83 percent use Snow Leopard, which of course is a 64 bit operating system (for the discussion in the other thread). More than 90 percent have two CPUs, and 4 GB RAM is the most common memory size (which also confirms a discussion we had elsewhere in this forum).

What I would really like to see is a statistic from a new game -- what the percentage of Mac buyers are for, say, HalfLife 2: Episode 3. Or, of course, Civ V. Now that would be really interesting, though I would probably be too busy playing the game on said MacBook Pro with 4 GB RAM and a dual-core i5 to pay much attention :).

Your dedicated and devoted. I will give you that.
For what it is worth, I logged my Hackintosh onto Steam to give the numbers a bump ;)

Incidentally since you think it matters, the fastest growing OS usage is Windows 7 *gasp* 64 bit. Seems even that "advantage" is slipping away for OSX. Civ 5 native for Mac...I say Q1 2012 (guessing of course)
 
Your dedicated and devoted. I will give you that.
For what it is worth, I logged my Hackintosh onto Steam to give the numbers a bump ;)

Incidentally since you think it matters, the fastest growing OS usage is Windows 7 *gasp* 64 bit. Seems even that "advantage" is slipping away for OSX. Civ 5 native for Mac...I say Q1 2012 (guessing of course)

It's true. I just admitted above that after almost a decade as a mac user I'm tempted to use windows again for the first time--not for windows itself, of course, but just that I'd consider it shows that Windows has at least become acceptable.

I hear lots of good things about Windows 7, but I still maintain it's too little too late for Microsoft. They've got jack for phones and tablets and that's where the money's heading. The next OS from Apple will probably merge iOS and OS X into a touch-screen happy super OS that can run on touch-sensitive iMacs, Macbooks with facing touchscreens (like a sexier DS) and whatever other little gadgets they can think up.

Microsoft is going to be what IBM was in the 80's. A boring company that sells office software. Apple and Google own the next era of technological growth.
 
Windows 7 has support for tablets and touch screens not to mention they came out with a failed tablet years ago (before netbooks). They also have Windows 7 mobile which has a load of Xbox live games coming out.

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/111/1113431p1.html

I wouldn't say they don't have jack; and if the xbox is any indication it shows Microsoft is willing to take a hit to break into a market.
 
Windows 7 has support for tablets and touch screens not to mention they came out with a failed tablet years ago (before netbooks). They also have Windows 7 mobile which has a load of Xbox live games coming out.

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/111/1113431p1.html

I wouldn't say they don't have jack; and if the xbox is any indication it shows Microsoft is willing to take a hit to break into a market.

Good point. I guess I'm just so biased based on MS's track record of innovation that I really felt like they'd finally met their match in Apple and Google. I know that in terms of recent history their efforts to break into phones and tablets have been dismal, but maybe you're right. Maybe they'll have more staying power than I give them credit for.

I'm just saying that Microsoft is way behind and for once, their Windows monopoly isn't much of an advantage. They still have the liquidity that let them break in with the Xbox and become a stake holder in that industry, but Apple's doing even better on that front and Android's got the lead in market share.

Hmm, Microsoft as underdog? Gosh, I usually root for underdogs, but I can't quite get into their corner after their checkered past.
 
I want to use bootcamp on me mac, but the cheapest Windows OS (7) is over $100! When I updated to 10.6, it was only ten bucks.
 
I want to use bootcamp on me mac, but the cheapest Windows OS (7) is over $100! When I updated to 10.6, it was only ten bucks.

buy Home Premium off a student it's like $60 that way




It wouldn't be hard to layer iOS on OS X, only difficulty would be a stylish Apple way of interfacing with the machine
 
Good point. I guess I'm just so biased based on MS's track record of innovation that I really felt like they'd finally met their match in Apple and Google. I know that in terms of recent history their efforts to break into phones and tablets have been dismal, but maybe you're right. Maybe they'll have more staying power than I give them credit for.

I'm just saying that Microsoft is way behind and for once, their Windows monopoly isn't much of an advantage. They still have the liquidity that let them break in with the Xbox and become a stake holder in that industry, but Apple's doing even better on that front and Android's got the lead in market share.

Hmm, Microsoft as underdog? Gosh, I usually root for underdogs, but I can't quite get into their corner after their checkered past.

The reason I think this initiative from Microsoft is more noteworthy is because of the strength of their existing properties in it. Easy use and good compatibility with Win7 plus the connection to Xbox live is the leverage that might actually make them successful. I would still see Windows as an advantage with the good press and general public opinion around Win7.

Microsoft has its ups and downs, and it is about due for an up in the mobile space. So it will either be great or totally suck.
 
Microsoft has its ups and downs, and it is about due for an up in the mobile space. So it will either be great or totally suck.

Well, it's not like we have lots of new info about the Mac version of Civ V to discuss, so ...

I had my hands on an iPad for the first time yesterday -- a co-worker had bought one after a tech showed him his (we are a Microsoft-only company where all the tech staff uses Macs at home) -- and it is really, truly, one of those OMG things. Not so much the interface, which is just a bigger version of the iPhone / iPod Touch, but the way it feels when you hold it, its weight, how solid it is. The ebook readers I've picked up all felt like, well, plastic. The iPad, on the other hand, is the mobile gadget equivalent to a well-balanced sword. You pick it up and go, wow.

Two more co-works said, okay, they were going to buy one now too. It is sort of like an infection. My wife and I are going to wait until Christmas.

Microsoft's problem is not that they can't create great software (at least when their developers manage to fight off the mindless marketing droids of death), it is that they have no control over the total package. You can live with ugly desktop computers, but the moment you are talking about something mobile, it can't look, like, say, a Zune or your generic Dell plastic-case laptop. You need something that people will like to show off, like the first iPhone, like the iPad. Silly, but true.

Apple has Jonathan Ive, who in interviews comes across as rather, um, odd, and obviously marches to his own drummer, but just so happens to be brilliant. His boss, Steve Jobs, might be a borderline psychotic ego-maniac, but knows when to let the creative guys do their stuff (something the Pixar people keep talking about -- Jobs stays out of the creative process). So you need a genius designer and a boss who doesn't have to poke his nose in everything, and keeps the marketing people off the backs of the developers and designers.

This is not Microsoft. They do not have this kind of design talent, and Steve Ballmer is not a visionary. This will not work, unless they rip their corporate culture up and start over again in a garage. Given their current profits, they are not going to change a thing, or at least not enough. They are not going to do well in mobile, short of nuking Infinity Drive.

The question for us is, of course, can you put a version of Civ V that is not like Revolution (hiss!) on the iPad. The screen isn't huge, but moving units with your fingers should be awesome. That's the next question for Firaxis once we have the OS X version out the door. Sometime.
 
I agree that Microsoft's biggest obstacle is Microsoft. We've seen how a lot of companies just can't adapt to the changing landscape in these new smart device markets, and they're a pretty prominent member of that list.

But Matt's got a point also. As right as you are about Microsoft's shortcomings in innovation, one thing they are is persistent. They have tended to get what they want...eventually.

On the gaming front, though, your last question is a great one. Except it's not a matter of "can." The iPad clearly has the processor muscle to run a game like Civ 4, and a scalable Civ 5 could have the graphics toned down to run on the iPad. Will they, though, is a different question. So far, the games market on portable devices has thrived because of low price points. I paid $5 for Civ Rev on my iPhone. That's $45 less than I paid for my PS3 version.

Now Matt points out that Microsoft is looking to port some real games into the mobile arena. Can they change the nature of the market? Will people pay for full game experiences on portables? The future of complex, engaging entertainment software like Civ will depend on that answer.
 
I agree that Microsoft's biggest obstacle is Microsoft. We've seen how a lot of companies just can't adapt to the changing landscape in these new smart device markets, and they're a pretty prominent member of that list.

But Matt's got a point also. As right as you are about Microsoft's shortcomings in innovation, one thing they are is persistent. They have tended to get what they want...eventually.

On the gaming front, though, your last question is a great one. Except it's not a matter of "can." The iPad clearly has the processor muscle to run a game like Civ 4, and a scalable Civ 5 could have the graphics toned down to run on the iPad. Will they, though, is a different question. So far, the games market on portable devices has thrived because of low price points. I paid $5 for Civ Rev on my iPhone. That's $45 less than I paid for my PS3 version.

Now Matt points out that Microsoft is looking to port some real games into the mobile arena. Can they change the nature of the market? Will people pay for full game experiences on portables? The future of complex, engaging entertainment software like Civ will depend on that answer.

Microsoft has realized it's fracked because of DLLs, end DLLs and prevent lots of virus and break most programs or don't change it remain virus ridden and don't break programs, either way Microsoft loses
 
Microsoft has realized it's fracked because of DLLs, end DLLs and prevent lots of virus and break most programs or don't change it remain virus ridden and don't break programs, either way Microsoft loses

Switching from using DLLs to something else (statically linking everything?) wouldn't prevent malware.
 
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