Acid_01: Emperor
- Thread starter acidsatyr
- Start date
well, I tend to go with more concervative aproach.
Cats will help to take annoing Peter city and may be take green capital and take bitten AI cities when we ready to expand a bit more..
But I am tend to avoide all our war at that point.
Personally I would not go Maces, I would go get Philosofy from GS, Theology-papar (posible other GS) -Education(One more GS)- Liberalism -(Nationalism as free tech)- Gunpowder (draft some muskets and start take AI on with Muskets/cat combor)- military tradition - to add cavalry in mix.
In process I would get helpfull wanders like GL and Garden.
Especially Garden and we have stone. IN addition we still missing currency that is must.
But this stuped cottages on floodplans not only slow grow or our cities, they previent fully exploite of pacifism and made future city regrow problematic.
So I do not know, my useal strat for this situation might not work.
Cats will help to take annoing Peter city and may be take green capital and take bitten AI cities when we ready to expand a bit more..
But I am tend to avoide all our war at that point.
Personally I would not go Maces, I would go get Philosofy from GS, Theology-papar (posible other GS) -Education(One more GS)- Liberalism -(Nationalism as free tech)- Gunpowder (draft some muskets and start take AI on with Muskets/cat combor)- military tradition - to add cavalry in mix.
In process I would get helpfull wanders like GL and Garden.
Especially Garden and we have stone. IN addition we still missing currency that is must.
But this stuped cottages on floodplans not only slow grow or our cities, they previent fully exploite of pacifism and made future city regrow problematic.
So I do not know, my useal strat for this situation might not work.
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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This is what i'd do (off top of my head right now)
-Get catapults - kill peter, and HC (keeping only HC's capital for now), where we'd rush courthouse.
At the same time prepare to go after Musa. He has some very nice land), (I'd also get machinery ands crossbowmens - very useful) Getting philosophy I agree with, and trying to get Liberalism. However I'd choose Astronomy as a free tech (which means we'd have to get optics as well). I would skip CS for now as we don't really need macemenn (IF we start warring right away), and our capital is not science city so we wouldnt benefit from bureaucracy that much. Frankly Id like to see what's on the other continent as soon as possible.
I would not get GL, I think its a waste of time.
Since we have good cottages, this war wouldnt cost us that much, we wont be keeping a lot of cities and we'll get some great cash from war. I am for warring this early before mansa has a chance to develop.
But I like your path too.
-Get catapults - kill peter, and HC (keeping only HC's capital for now), where we'd rush courthouse.
At the same time prepare to go after Musa. He has some very nice land), (I'd also get machinery ands crossbowmens - very useful) Getting philosophy I agree with, and trying to get Liberalism. However I'd choose Astronomy as a free tech (which means we'd have to get optics as well). I would skip CS for now as we don't really need macemenn (IF we start warring right away), and our capital is not science city so we wouldnt benefit from bureaucracy that much. Frankly Id like to see what's on the other continent as soon as possible.
I would not get GL, I think its a waste of time.
Since we have good cottages, this war wouldnt cost us that much, we wont be keeping a lot of cities and we'll get some great cash from war. I am for warring this early before mansa has a chance to develop.
But I like your path too.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=168138
There is a game I played.
It was extrimelly advantageous start (2 gold mines), but that is not main point.
There was somebody else finished this game.
He went with standart way it is done and considered beat in this forum - spawn cottagess, produce armies, went free market-state property and all cottage spawn civics.
Me on other hand was staying in Representation-Nationalism-Mercantenilism-Pacifism allmost all game.
I Drafted bulk of my army.
I was running resonably higth food excess cities and grow them fast.
Now, compare AI developing speed. It is very interesting comparesing, as I was deploying Slow AI development strategy, when he was trying to increase his profit.
Bottom linee, I was emploing strat not useally used in this community and it perform mach better then standart one.
There is a game I played.
It was extrimelly advantageous start (2 gold mines), but that is not main point.
There was somebody else finished this game.
He went with standart way it is done and considered beat in this forum - spawn cottagess, produce armies, went free market-state property and all cottage spawn civics.
Me on other hand was staying in Representation-Nationalism-Mercantenilism-Pacifism allmost all game.
I Drafted bulk of my army.
I was running resonably higth food excess cities and grow them fast.
Now, compare AI developing speed. It is very interesting comparesing, as I was deploying Slow AI development strategy, when he was trying to increase his profit.
Bottom linee, I was emploing strat not useally used in this community and it perform mach better then standart one.
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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you are making money from shrine + extra gold from colossus and lighthouse, am i correct? Yeah and that gold at beginning which is simply huge.
My strategy wouldn’t be much different from yours if that was the case, however sometimes you don’t have all that.
I prefer cottages over anything, and it absolutely doesn’t matter if I’m financial or not.
Take a look at this game - if city can support itself foodwise, i build cottages all over the place. Nothing beats commerce, especially if playing immortal game. Doing pop rush, and running great people based economy (representation), etc is going to get you only so far, I think. Take a look at this game I’m playing right now so you have idea what I mean, I can count farms on my fingers.. Actually I could’ve finished this game much earlier, but since I always win before modern times I wanted to do some warring here...
I think i might play that game you played, only with cottages and see how it would be different...
edit: ok im playing big map and upload limit is 500kb lol
My strategy wouldn’t be much different from yours if that was the case, however sometimes you don’t have all that.
I prefer cottages over anything, and it absolutely doesn’t matter if I’m financial or not.
Take a look at this game - if city can support itself foodwise, i build cottages all over the place. Nothing beats commerce, especially if playing immortal game. Doing pop rush, and running great people based economy (representation), etc is going to get you only so far, I think. Take a look at this game I’m playing right now so you have idea what I mean, I can count farms on my fingers.. Actually I could’ve finished this game much earlier, but since I always win before modern times I wanted to do some warring here...
I think i might play that game you played, only with cottages and see how it would be different...
edit: ok im playing big map and upload limit is 500kb lol
I agree GP rushing to liberalism is more powerful than most people give it credit for (though I would normally only do a strat such the beeline Mutineer proposed with a Philosophical civ...) I think the position we have right now favours Maces anyway, because the techs on the road to maces are very good for us:
1) We have 2 rice and 1 corn off river and Civil Service will let us chain irrigation to them.
2) We have gems, gold and silver, so Metal Casting and forges are too good to pass up.
3) We are aggressive, so macemen get a free promotion, and we have veteran axes that we can promote as well.
4) We have ivory, and elephants kill all pesky knights and crossbowmen that could otherwise counter us.
I think maces would get us to at least 50% landmass, and my preferred tech from liberalism would be Chemistry. So long as we inflicted enough damage on Mansa we could just stop research after that, upgrade our troops and clean up from there with city raider 3 grenadiers.
Funny how a bunch of experienced warmongers want to do things different ways
1) We have 2 rice and 1 corn off river and Civil Service will let us chain irrigation to them.
2) We have gems, gold and silver, so Metal Casting and forges are too good to pass up.
3) We are aggressive, so macemen get a free promotion, and we have veteran axes that we can promote as well.
4) We have ivory, and elephants kill all pesky knights and crossbowmen that could otherwise counter us.
I think maces would get us to at least 50% landmass, and my preferred tech from liberalism would be Chemistry. So long as we inflicted enough damage on Mansa we could just stop research after that, upgrade our troops and clean up from there with city raider 3 grenadiers.
Funny how a bunch of experienced warmongers want to do things different ways
Qwack
The Poopman
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I dont think we really need Wat, just build a few missionaries from other cities and get 3 temples in Karokorum to support 3 preists. That should be enough im guessing?
Anyways, as far as tech path, next person can decide. I researched literature for GL, also hooked up stone, Moscow looks like nice site for hanging gardens.
CoL came in 3 turns into my set, I started courthouse in Moscow and New York. Also chopped library in karokorum and put 2 scientist. We will have GP out in 14 turns. Right when we have that out we can get a couple more temples and get the great prophet.. I think this would be faster than wasting so much hammers on wat.
So anyway, Christianity spread to one of our cities. I started building missionary there, I also started confusion missionary in beshbalik. Spread both of those to karokorum and build thier respective temples.
Once library is done in washington, I would suggest whipping a courthouse, it has 1 unhappy guy and good growth so whipping 2-3 people shouldnt be too bad.
The save:
Anyways, as far as tech path, next person can decide. I researched literature for GL, also hooked up stone, Moscow looks like nice site for hanging gardens.
CoL came in 3 turns into my set, I started courthouse in Moscow and New York. Also chopped library in karokorum and put 2 scientist. We will have GP out in 14 turns. Right when we have that out we can get a couple more temples and get the great prophet.. I think this would be faster than wasting so much hammers on wat.
So anyway, Christianity spread to one of our cities. I started building missionary there, I also started confusion missionary in beshbalik. Spread both of those to karokorum and build thier respective temples.
Once library is done in washington, I would suggest whipping a courthouse, it has 1 unhappy guy and good growth so whipping 2-3 people shouldnt be too bad.
The save:
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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preturn
Ok, I see Munsa's power peak went up, i see his axes near Washington, where we have spear and sword...
.
I'm switching production from swordsman in capital to axe, just incase..
I have this feeling he’s going to declare on use, he wont even talk to us..
we have all resources connected so that ok..
turn - 1
Munsa want to give us dye for crab. Ok. How about I throw in some furry animals in exchange for sugar as well. He agrees.
Now Washington can frow some more. I was about to whip it...
Boston finishes library, chop courthouse
Peter has Monarchy while Munsa has Theology (red), Construction, Currency, Calendar, Horseback Riding.
Trade Peter CoL+Alphabet for Monarchy (highway robbery), and hope to trade Munsa Monarchy+ Alphabet for something next turn.
Also i send one worker to farm over just built cottage in capital, since that is the only logical way to get rice irrigated
eventually, and to run another priest once we build another temple from missionaries.
Revolt to H. Rule.
turn - 2
Munsa has Monarchy now and Peter has Currency. I can trade Alphabet for 60 to Munsa. I don't do it for the sake of dignity.
Worker started one farm in NY.
turn 3 - washinton, library->courthouse, Washington is our coolest city right now..
we get library, and i switch to civil service. I think it makes sense since Ai almost never get this soon enough, and we can trade for
some other tech later. However, i set slider to 0% science for all duration of my next few turns, so we could switch it to something else
since I don’t think we really decided on that. I would stay on CS.
turn 4 - Trade CoL+Alphabet for Calendar to Sahaladin.
turn 5 - Start library in Moscow. Tao founded in Rostov. Cool. Confuse spread in capital.
turn 6 - nada. HC building up.
turn 7 - And now I do something crazy again, I trade Literature to everyone, I think it was the right move, as
I'm sure Munsa would've got it soon, and we're not building GL. So saladin 260, Munsa 170, Peter 150, and we're rich and i
start researching toward CS. Maceman now seem like a good idea.
turn 8 - zzzz. CS in 11. Munsa builds Sistine Chapel
turn 9 - Discover Philosophy with Socrates. Munsa wants open borders i say no.
turn 10 - nada.
So in summery, traded some techs, build some courthouses and few units. Switching to pacifism now would be excellent idea.
Also i didn’t open border with munsa, i don’t know if that’s smart.
Ok, I see Munsa's power peak went up, i see his axes near Washington, where we have spear and sword...
.I'm switching production from swordsman in capital to axe, just incase..
I have this feeling he’s going to declare on use, he wont even talk to us..
we have all resources connected so that ok..
turn - 1
Munsa want to give us dye for crab. Ok. How about I throw in some furry animals in exchange for sugar as well. He agrees.
Now Washington can frow some more. I was about to whip it...
Boston finishes library, chop courthouse
Peter has Monarchy while Munsa has Theology (red), Construction, Currency, Calendar, Horseback Riding.
Trade Peter CoL+Alphabet for Monarchy (highway robbery), and hope to trade Munsa Monarchy+ Alphabet for something next turn.
Also i send one worker to farm over just built cottage in capital, since that is the only logical way to get rice irrigated
eventually, and to run another priest once we build another temple from missionaries.
Revolt to H. Rule.
turn - 2
Munsa has Monarchy now and Peter has Currency. I can trade Alphabet for 60 to Munsa. I don't do it for the sake of dignity.
Worker started one farm in NY.
turn 3 - washinton, library->courthouse, Washington is our coolest city right now..
we get library, and i switch to civil service. I think it makes sense since Ai almost never get this soon enough, and we can trade for
some other tech later. However, i set slider to 0% science for all duration of my next few turns, so we could switch it to something else
since I don’t think we really decided on that. I would stay on CS.
turn 4 - Trade CoL+Alphabet for Calendar to Sahaladin.
turn 5 - Start library in Moscow. Tao founded in Rostov. Cool. Confuse spread in capital.
turn 6 - nada. HC building up.
turn 7 - And now I do something crazy again, I trade Literature to everyone, I think it was the right move, as
I'm sure Munsa would've got it soon, and we're not building GL. So saladin 260, Munsa 170, Peter 150, and we're rich and i
start researching toward CS. Maceman now seem like a good idea.
turn 8 - zzzz. CS in 11. Munsa builds Sistine Chapel
turn 9 - Discover Philosophy with Socrates. Munsa wants open borders i say no.
turn 10 - nada.
So in summery, traded some techs, build some courthouses and few units. Switching to pacifism now would be excellent idea.
Also i didn’t open border with munsa, i don’t know if that’s smart.
Pre turn... At least I get to cancel Acid's worker actions instead now!
Ok, I think we are committed to CS and macemen now and I'll set up for irrigation spread. I take one of the workers near Washington off its cottage to set a farm up first, it can resume the cottage later. There's a worker farming over a cottage in Karakorum. This is actually unnecessary as flatland cities spread irrigation and I make it chop one of the forests in the way instead. I whip the library at Moscow, because we will have serious culture trouble there if the Russian city south of it expands.
Boston is a better place to run specialists than Karakorum since Karakorum has better tiles. I fire the 2 scientists in Karakorum and set the city to grow, but keep the priest as we have one temple already and one soon to be completed. I note there is a 5 turn courthouse inserted into the queue ahead of a 1 turn library, move library to the top of queue. I will hire 2 scientists there.
Tech trading.
I think it was a mistake to trade alphabet and literature off to the AIs, we could have waited for Philosophy and traded that round instead. It is likely that some AI will now have marble and beat us to great library. Perhaps we can get it with a chop rush.
Mansa will do the following trades:
Philo + 260 gold for Construction + Currency.
Philo + 570 gold for Theology + Horseback Riding.
As the team has expressed a desire to get currency I will take the first trade, we need to do this before Peter can. I then open up borders with MM, which gets us 5 more commerce and lets us run missionaries through to Saladin to hopefully convert him back.
I consider converting to pacifism, but realise we need to build missionaries to spread our religion to our barracks cities for Theocracy and Shrine income later and possibly convert Saladin back, and we have no monasteries so need Org Rel to do it for now.
Ok, I think we are committed to CS and macemen now and I'll set up for irrigation spread. I take one of the workers near Washington off its cottage to set a farm up first, it can resume the cottage later. There's a worker farming over a cottage in Karakorum. This is actually unnecessary as flatland cities spread irrigation and I make it chop one of the forests in the way instead. I whip the library at Moscow, because we will have serious culture trouble there if the Russian city south of it expands.
Boston is a better place to run specialists than Karakorum since Karakorum has better tiles. I fire the 2 scientists in Karakorum and set the city to grow, but keep the priest as we have one temple already and one soon to be completed. I note there is a 5 turn courthouse inserted into the queue ahead of a 1 turn library, move library to the top of queue. I will hire 2 scientists there.
Tech trading.
I think it was a mistake to trade alphabet and literature off to the AIs, we could have waited for Philosophy and traded that round instead. It is likely that some AI will now have marble and beat us to great library. Perhaps we can get it with a chop rush.
Mansa will do the following trades:
Philo + 260 gold for Construction + Currency.
Philo + 570 gold for Theology + Horseback Riding.
As the team has expressed a desire to get currency I will take the first trade, we need to do this before Peter can. I then open up borders with MM, which gets us 5 more commerce and lets us run missionaries through to Saladin to hopefully convert him back.
I consider converting to pacifism, but realise we need to build missionaries to spread our religion to our barracks cities for Theocracy and Shrine income later and possibly convert Saladin back, and we have no monasteries so need Org Rel to do it for now.
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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fair enough,
few points ->
I think trading alphabet was at the best possible moment. In my experience, it doesn’t take Munsa to get Alphabet after all those tech he had. Not to mention the fact that, once one AI has the same tech as you do, the value of that tech is nothing. Example, munsa didn’t wanted to give more than 60 gold for Alphabet.
“It is likely that some AI will now have marble and beat us to great library.”
HAha - YES that IS the plan. Build army and take AI with GL. hopefully it will be Munsa since he has Marble!
We are not industrious nor we have marble and spending so much shield on something like that after we got our first scientist is absolute waste wouldn’t you agree?
Open border with munsa, thats fine.
It seems I am the only one who wants to start warring as soon as possible. Killing Munsa now would solve the game right away.
Once we get CS we can trade it for all those low lvl techs.
few points ->
I think trading alphabet was at the best possible moment. In my experience, it doesn’t take Munsa to get Alphabet after all those tech he had. Not to mention the fact that, once one AI has the same tech as you do, the value of that tech is nothing. Example, munsa didn’t wanted to give more than 60 gold for Alphabet.
“It is likely that some AI will now have marble and beat us to great library.”
HAha - YES that IS the plan. Build army and take AI with GL. hopefully it will be Munsa since he has Marble!
We are not industrious nor we have marble and spending so much shield on something like that after we got our first scientist is absolute waste wouldn’t you agree?
Open border with munsa, thats fine.
It seems I am the only one who wants to start warring as soon as possible. Killing Munsa now would solve the game right away.
Once we get CS we can trade it for all those low lvl techs.
Oh no, you're not the only one to want to start fighting again believe me, watch and see:
80 AD (1) - Peter has 4 archers in Novgorod and two just randomly patrolling around near the city and bronze. He has also reconnected the copper. I gather all our swords and offensive promoted axes and send them that way, this city, besides being a real annoyance right in the middle of our lands, needs to go down sooner rather than later so we can use it for production. I start Moscow on a monastery so we can produce missionaries somewhere once we're out of Org Rel.
95 AD (2) - Saladin went to Theocracy, he won't trade theology just yet, he is now lost to the evil Confucianist hordes.
140 AD (5) - I sell Literature to HC for 100 gold too, why not. I also whipped St Pete for a sword.
155 AD (6) - Peter made the mistake I've been waiting for by moving his 2 archer stack to an unroaded square where they can't defend the city. Although my catapult won't get there in time, I declare war. Better than waiting for him to have axes in city too. Axe kills peter's archer on bronze and our attack stacks move in from NW and SE.
On computer's turn 2 archers attack across river and kill our wounded axe.
170 AD (7) - Civil Service finishes. Mansa will only offer us 80 gold for it. He has feudalism and longbows now, by the way. Then I attack Novgorod, it built another archer somewhere but city walls or no they can't withstand 10 on 5 odds.
Attack with rookie swords first, 4 lose but one gets a lot of xp. Veteran axes clean up easily. Also killed the archers on the bronze with no further losses except that it got pillaged.
Sorry for deliberately sacrificing our swordsmen, but taking that city and gaining XP for our veterans was easily worth the sacrifice of some rookie troops that will be outdated soon anyway.
Revolt us into Bureaucracy. I have a missionary still being trained that would be cancelled by pacifism. Turns out the double revolt would not have saved us a turn of anarchy anyway.
185 AD - Set research to metal casting (due in 6)
200 AD - one of Yaroslavl's defenders surprisingly ran out and stole a worker building a farm near Moscow, no big deal, we killed the offending archer and will get the worker back when we take Yaroslavl. Karakorum finishes Aqueduct and will build the hanging gardens in 13 turns, pretty quick for an epic game where we are running 2 priests in city... Southern cities building catapults.
We have a sword en route from the south to Washington to defend.
Saladin has marble. He's the most likely AI to get great library and also our furthest opponent geographically, and I have therefore set 2 workers chopping forest at Washington to see if we can't grab it ourselves anyway to deny him the extra research. If we decide to just give up on it, feel free to cancel this.
80 AD (1) - Peter has 4 archers in Novgorod and two just randomly patrolling around near the city and bronze. He has also reconnected the copper. I gather all our swords and offensive promoted axes and send them that way, this city, besides being a real annoyance right in the middle of our lands, needs to go down sooner rather than later so we can use it for production. I start Moscow on a monastery so we can produce missionaries somewhere once we're out of Org Rel.
95 AD (2) - Saladin went to Theocracy, he won't trade theology just yet, he is now lost to the evil Confucianist hordes.
140 AD (5) - I sell Literature to HC for 100 gold too, why not. I also whipped St Pete for a sword.
155 AD (6) - Peter made the mistake I've been waiting for by moving his 2 archer stack to an unroaded square where they can't defend the city. Although my catapult won't get there in time, I declare war. Better than waiting for him to have axes in city too. Axe kills peter's archer on bronze and our attack stacks move in from NW and SE.
On computer's turn 2 archers attack across river and kill our wounded axe.
170 AD (7) - Civil Service finishes. Mansa will only offer us 80 gold for it. He has feudalism and longbows now, by the way. Then I attack Novgorod, it built another archer somewhere but city walls or no they can't withstand 10 on 5 odds.
Attack with rookie swords first, 4 lose but one gets a lot of xp. Veteran axes clean up easily. Also killed the archers on the bronze with no further losses except that it got pillaged.
Sorry for deliberately sacrificing our swordsmen, but taking that city and gaining XP for our veterans was easily worth the sacrifice of some rookie troops that will be outdated soon anyway.
Revolt us into Bureaucracy. I have a missionary still being trained that would be cancelled by pacifism. Turns out the double revolt would not have saved us a turn of anarchy anyway.
185 AD - Set research to metal casting (due in 6)
200 AD - one of Yaroslavl's defenders surprisingly ran out and stole a worker building a farm near Moscow, no big deal, we killed the offending archer and will get the worker back when we take Yaroslavl. Karakorum finishes Aqueduct and will build the hanging gardens in 13 turns, pretty quick for an epic game where we are running 2 priests in city... Southern cities building catapults.
We have a sword en route from the south to Washington to defend.
Saladin has marble. He's the most likely AI to get great library and also our furthest opponent geographically, and I have therefore set 2 workers chopping forest at Washington to see if we can't grab it ourselves anyway to deny him the extra research. If we decide to just give up on it, feel free to cancel this.
WE need to finish Piter, Roosevelt and Capac.
They all stick cities in there old cultural border making pain and they are annoance anyway.
So of cities they have we can keep, as I think we have now strong engoth economy to expand and some of them as disent.
They we will see what can we do about Saladin and Musta.
They all stick cities in there old cultural border making pain and they are annoance anyway.
So of cities they have we can keep, as I think we have now strong engoth economy to expand and some of them as disent.
They we will see what can we do about Saladin and Musta.
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
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Excellent my friend, excellent. War, anytime, all the time. We must not stop @ peter now... 
Since you started GL i guess we should leave it.
Also out capital can be micromanaged so that Gardens are done in only 8. By the same token, both watt and chicken itza are only 15 turns away since we have stone. We could turn off GP production just for a while so we can get these if we want. They both add to G prophets. We could demand some money from Roosevelt, or sell some low tech to that poor ol’ chap..
Since you started GL i guess we should leave it.
Also out capital can be micromanaged so that Gardens are done in only 8. By the same token, both watt and chicken itza are only 15 turns away since we have stone. We could turn off GP production just for a while so we can get these if we want. They both add to G prophets. We could demand some money from Roosevelt, or sell some low tech to that poor ol’ chap..
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