Acid_04: The final frontier
- Thread starter acidsatyr
- Start date
850: Wash comes out of resistance and a Library is rushed. We are –34gpt at 100%.
825: Library rushed in NY. Atlanta raised for 55 gp. And a much needed worker.
800: Rangar demands we cancel deals with Korea. This is tough. I refuse. We have -2 WW and need Wangs dyes. If Rangar uses his stack on us we are toast. Alphabet->Wang for Math +50gp.
775: We meet Toku. What great trading partners we have. He is Christian and knows only Roosevelt. He must be out West. In position to attack Philly. 6 WC vs 3 archers and a settler
750: OK Miraculously the settler becomes a spear and we no longer have enough to take the city. Move onto Teothitcan which is not a bad city. Fish and sheep. Boston on line and library rushed Lit->Priesthood to open Monarchy.
725: Moving into position.
700: Take Teothictan for the loss of 1 WC and keep it. Time for peace. Damn I push the wrong button and get nothing for peace. Play over from 775 same results. I can get CoL and archery for peace. He didn’t have Monarchy. I took CoL over a bunch of others including IW as it is not spread around and could be used for trade, if we could trade with anyone but Wang, or for war bribes. Also, if we get meditation soon we can scientist pop Philo for trading. Research pottery then IW.
675-600: Building stuff. Granaries and libraries some starts on courts as well.
600: GL Built. Pop a hut and get barbs.
650 Wang wants us to adopt Caste System. I say yes. A benefit of the religious trait he is now pleased. We can wait 5 turns to whip. We are small anyway and want granaries first.
625-500 Exploring and building. Roosevelt is the only guy on our peninsula. Also Wang is weak. He still only has archers and cities are weakly defended. Rangar would have accepted CoL and Alphabet to start a war a few turns ago but now won’t.now. I didn’t do it as we were not in a position to take advantage yet and Alphabet is still semi monopoly.
Summary: Way behind on tech but have a few up on some people. GL is ours. We have Hindu and Confucian, no Judaism yet. Roosevelt has another source of Iron way west. Being watched by a WC.
Our biggest problem is no one will trade with us but Wang. We have all cranky isolationists. I like the idea of taking on Wang and pretty soon too. IW due in 2 and we can start building some spears and axes. Wang seems to have very poor defenses. If we declared we could probably get Rangar in at that point with Alphabet and CoL. Better if he would go before us but last I checked he wouldn’t. If we could take down Wang a peg or 2 we would be golden I think. Might wait to pop Philo and trade for construction. We could build HE in Thebes while we wait. With WE and cats we would be in good shape.
We really need more trading partners. If Toku or Shaka demand something I think giving 1 good tech like Alphabet would be enough to open it up with them. We have CoL and Alphabet/Lit over them.
Wang is Pleased. Won’t give cheap tech but might give gold. I haven’t asked.
:
825: Library rushed in NY. Atlanta raised for 55 gp. And a much needed worker.
800: Rangar demands we cancel deals with Korea. This is tough. I refuse. We have -2 WW and need Wangs dyes. If Rangar uses his stack on us we are toast. Alphabet->Wang for Math +50gp.
775: We meet Toku. What great trading partners we have. He is Christian and knows only Roosevelt. He must be out West. In position to attack Philly. 6 WC vs 3 archers and a settler
750: OK Miraculously the settler becomes a spear and we no longer have enough to take the city. Move onto Teothitcan which is not a bad city. Fish and sheep. Boston on line and library rushed Lit->Priesthood to open Monarchy.
725: Moving into position.
700: Take Teothictan for the loss of 1 WC and keep it. Time for peace. Damn I push the wrong button and get nothing for peace. Play over from 775 same results. I can get CoL and archery for peace. He didn’t have Monarchy. I took CoL over a bunch of others including IW as it is not spread around and could be used for trade, if we could trade with anyone but Wang, or for war bribes. Also, if we get meditation soon we can scientist pop Philo for trading. Research pottery then IW.
675-600: Building stuff. Granaries and libraries some starts on courts as well.
600: GL Built. Pop a hut and get barbs.
650 Wang wants us to adopt Caste System. I say yes. A benefit of the religious trait he is now pleased. We can wait 5 turns to whip. We are small anyway and want granaries first.
625-500 Exploring and building. Roosevelt is the only guy on our peninsula. Also Wang is weak. He still only has archers and cities are weakly defended. Rangar would have accepted CoL and Alphabet to start a war a few turns ago but now won’t.now. I didn’t do it as we were not in a position to take advantage yet and Alphabet is still semi monopoly.
Summary: Way behind on tech but have a few up on some people. GL is ours. We have Hindu and Confucian, no Judaism yet. Roosevelt has another source of Iron way west. Being watched by a WC.
Our biggest problem is no one will trade with us but Wang. We have all cranky isolationists. I like the idea of taking on Wang and pretty soon too. IW due in 2 and we can start building some spears and axes. Wang seems to have very poor defenses. If we declared we could probably get Rangar in at that point with Alphabet and CoL. Better if he would go before us but last I checked he wouldn’t. If we could take down Wang a peg or 2 we would be golden I think. Might wait to pop Philo and trade for construction. We could build HE in Thebes while we wait. With WE and cats we would be in good shape.
We really need more trading partners. If Toku or Shaka demand something I think giving 1 good tech like Alphabet would be enough to open it up with them. We have CoL and Alphabet/Lit over them.
Wang is Pleased. Won’t give cheap tech but might give gold. I haven’t asked.
:
Uber up?
I allmost feel we need to extort MOnarchy from Rysovelt.
Now sure, our chariots in capital, but I think we should have enogth of them to take one more american city and extort monarchy.
Should we build NE in capital? May be after furst GS pop out.
Ragnar allredy has Feodalism.
Problem is, Wan seems to be the only one willing to trade. WE need to explore more, build scout and sent it exploring using open borders.
Research wize we need meditation for Philosofy pop. May be we should self research calendar or Currency, we argently need bouth and no one willing to trade.
One change I notised is that AI is less responcive to chang ein civics/religion attitude wize, addopting correct civic does not give immidiat + any longer.
I allmost feel we need to extort MOnarchy from Rysovelt.
Now sure, our chariots in capital, but I think we should have enogth of them to take one more american city and extort monarchy.
Should we build NE in capital? May be after furst GS pop out.
Ragnar allredy has Feodalism.
Problem is, Wan seems to be the only one willing to trade. WE need to explore more, build scout and sent it exploring using open borders.
Research wize we need meditation for Philosofy pop. May be we should self research calendar or Currency, we argently need bouth and no one willing to trade.
One change I notised is that AI is less responcive to chang ein civics/religion attitude wize, addopting correct civic does not give immidiat + any longer.
angeleyes
mood indigo
I'm not sure but shouldn't you share borders to be able to become master/vassal ?
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2006
- Messages
- 1,166
Had a look at the save.
Why are we building archer in our capital!? For protection? Complete waste.
Few points I hope you'll agree with:
1) I would trade with Wang, our literature + priesthood for his monotheism + sailing. We need lighthouse in our horse city. This is fair trade.
2) Assign two more scientists in capital now. It really doesn’t have anything to build or work until we get more techs, so let it work more scientists. By assigning two more scientists, it will take only 4 turns to get our fists GS. Also, all our grassland tiles (3 i think) should get farms.
3) Switch from Iron Working [2] to Meditation [4], so we can pop philosophy as soon as we get GS. We should be able to do some nice trading with Philosophy.
4) With philosophy in our hands and zero army, I’d seriously consider adopting one religion and switching to pacifism.
5) Building NE in our capital makes only sense if we will have 4 scientists assigned all the time. With two scientists, there is 25% chance of getting GA, not good.
6) Washington is generating points for Great Engineer. Assign two scientists there Now as well.
7) Consider trading our rice to Shaka for 3 gpt.
8) Some essential improvments are still missing....
Consider these suggestions as you play Uberfish.
Why are we building archer in our capital!? For protection? Complete waste.
Few points I hope you'll agree with:
1) I would trade with Wang, our literature + priesthood for his monotheism + sailing. We need lighthouse in our horse city. This is fair trade.
2) Assign two more scientists in capital now. It really doesn’t have anything to build or work until we get more techs, so let it work more scientists. By assigning two more scientists, it will take only 4 turns to get our fists GS. Also, all our grassland tiles (3 i think) should get farms.
3) Switch from Iron Working [2] to Meditation [4], so we can pop philosophy as soon as we get GS. We should be able to do some nice trading with Philosophy.
4) With philosophy in our hands and zero army, I’d seriously consider adopting one religion and switching to pacifism.
5) Building NE in our capital makes only sense if we will have 4 scientists assigned all the time. With two scientists, there is 25% chance of getting GA, not good.
6) Washington is generating points for Great Engineer. Assign two scientists there Now as well.
7) Consider trading our rice to Shaka for 3 gpt.
8) Some essential improvments are still missing....
Consider these suggestions as you play Uberfish.
I disagree with the notion of pacifism and weak army. I think in between brief infrastructure builds we need to be on an almost constant war footing both for protection and gain. We've got granaries libraries going up and I think we should start building an iron based army as soon as possible to go after Wang in say 20 turns. We should be able to trade philosophy for construction. At that point we can build war elephants and cats. We will need an ally and Rangar is the obvious choice. We could warmup on Roosevelt in about five turns after we get one or two axes/swords, raise a few cities for cash and and tech (monarchy). Given the poor trading partners I don't see any peaceful way forward for more than 10 to 20 turns. If we could somehow swallow most of Wangs territory we would be in good position for a extended period of relative peace.
Sure we can but it will be more expensive and we have to pick a religion which will create tension and with so few trading partners we get relatively little out of a scientist poped tech (I'm not sure what he pops after Philo). I think the most important thing we can do is when Shaka and/or Toku Rangar come asking for alphabet we give it to them I think this is often enough to open trading/for Toku anyway, +1 gift and +2-4 for fair dealing.
Sci poping tech are vital untill liberalism.
On sci line I useally use are:
Pepar, education. Sci poping is the only way to keep up technologically and have access to shields.
Toky actially tend to be a good ally, if you can get him to become one.
But I am afraid we allredy lost this oportunity.
You had to gift him a cheap tech on turn you meat him, which we did not.
Then it is automatic +4 to trade. Actially I think this was a big mistake and lost opportunity.
In 2.08 pach it become more dificult to get good + from tech trade, you need to trade more expencive tech
On expancion front, we can not expand mach untill currency. WE can steal city from Rysevelt, but that about it.
Do not overestimate Pacifism cost. Actially pacifism is a cheap religious civic to start with, as only cities that run specialist need to have a correct religion.
So religion spread cost is minimum. What I am worried about is our continues luck of exploration. We still know as mach about the word as we did at the end of my turn set.
On sci line I useally use are:
Pepar, education. Sci poping is the only way to keep up technologically and have access to shields.
Toky actially tend to be a good ally, if you can get him to become one.
But I am afraid we allredy lost this oportunity.
You had to gift him a cheap tech on turn you meat him, which we did not.
Then it is automatic +4 to trade. Actially I think this was a big mistake and lost opportunity.
In 2.08 pach it become more dificult to get good + from tech trade, you need to trade more expencive tech
On expancion front, we can not expand mach untill currency. WE can steal city from Rysevelt, but that about it.
Do not overestimate Pacifism cost. Actially pacifism is a cheap religious civic to start with, as only cities that run specialist need to have a correct religion.
So religion spread cost is minimum. What I am worried about is our continues luck of exploration. We still know as mach about the word as we did at the end of my turn set.
It will be Compass (if you have IW). If you delay IW, then you will pop Sailing after Philo or just Sailing if you don't pick up Meditation. If you pick up Sailing, pop Philo and avoid IW then you could pop Calendar (but that won't be terribly useful since AI loves that tech). Basically after poping Philo, there is not much else worth popping til you get to Education.
First things first:
Our finances are in a mess and we need more trading partners, hmm I know a good solution to this:
sell priesthood to Wang for 60g
sell alphabet to Toku for 60g
sell alphabet to Shaka for 100g
We now have all the AI's gold to fund our deficit research, and have +5 relations with both Toku and Shaka and they will trade other stuff now. (Toku is even willing to open borders.) As a bonus Ragnar isn't even annoyed at us for trading with his worst enemies.
Hire 2 scientists in thebes (GS in 4 turns) and cancel archer, start Heroic Epic instead. Better to focus on production here as it's our best production city and already has a GG merged and build national epic in Washington which has a million food. I don't hire scientists there yet since we want to whip the courthouse there asap.
We have about zero chance of invading Korea successfully with our chariots right now (protective civ with its capital on a hill and spears and elephants in addition, get real) so I pull everything I can to Philadelphia.
Turn 1: IW in. Wang is sending a settler with 2 spears to build in the middle of our territory, I consider closing borders with him but it looks like he blocks the sea trade routes to the other civs and although Ragnar will open borders that isn't enough to fill our trade route quota once we have currency.
More trading, spare military resources are NICE
Horse to Shaka for Corn + 4gpt (he has crab and pig that we can trade for later too. We don't need that right now so -)
Rice to Wang for 4gpt
Ivory to Toku for Wine + 5gpt and open borders
CoL + Lit to Shaka for Construction! + 20g
CoL + Lit to Toku for Monarchy
and Lit to Wang for Monotheism + 10g
I couldn't get them to throw in sailing, science to 100% temporarily to research it so we open up Calendar.
start chopping 2 grass river forests at Thebes for the Heroic Epic and 1 plains river forest at Memphis for courthouse.
Turn 2: Nada
Turn 3: We catch a lucky break as the Vikings declare war on Korea!! Wang comes asking for help but I decline. It seems unlikely that the war will go anywhere or we'll be able to take advantage in the short term, since both have longbows.
Oh look, our peace treaty with Roosevelt expired and he has three exposed workers which we just happen to need to connect more spare resources. Declare war and pick one off, the other two will hide in Philadelphia and we'll get them afterwards. Our American cities are now unhappy. Revolt to hereditary rule and slavery to solve this.
Turn 4: Battle of Philadelphia, I sent 8 chariots against 4 random defenders
chariot < spear
chariot < sword
chariot < archer
chariot > archer
chariot > sword
chariot > spear
chariot > archer
I keep the city. Roosevelt sent out a couple of boats though which will harrass our fishing. Thanks for the 3 workers.
In other news we have finished research on both sailing and meditation, and Aristotle shows up to teach us Philosophy founding Taoism in Memphis. Missionary will go to NY since it's in a culture fight with Korea. The pesky Koreans build a city in the middle of our lands as expected. Sell them meditation for 180 gold.
Set research to civil service as no one has it. Unfortunately it will take 22 turns.
Turn 5: Heroic epic up in Thebes -> Elephant - Fire scientists for production and growth.
Check trades. Wang wants philo + 370 gold for feud (ouch), no deal, we need that cash for CS research. Instead I trade him for philo = calendar + 190 gold and getting relations back to pleased, because we really need calendar. Shaka doesn't have calendar, so we can get it.
Whip court @ washington -> overflow into rax. Whip grana at Teoihuacan -> replacement fishing boat
Turn 6: Shaka will now take philo + calendar for casting + currency, so we do that trade. Shaka and Toku are now in WFYABTA mode.
razed Chicago for 12g.
Turn 7: nada
Turn 8: Killed a great general American sword which didn't have any promotions, weirdly. Our clams at Washington get pillaged in retaliation
Turn 9: Trade a spice for Toku's pig - we don't need it now but it will lock in the deal for later
Turn 10: an American archer and chariot have been skulking around near Thebes, micro the city to produce an elephant next turn (next player please reset for growth) Whip granary at Philadelphia.
Sell Meditation to Ragnar for 160g, since the AIs don't really seem to be bothered by small deals like this.
Roose is down to one city with a spear, axe and archer in the vicinity, we'll need another couple of units if we want to get rid of him totally. I suggest we only do that if we want to keep Visigoth, otherwise someone else will just settle it.
We have 626 gold and CS is due in 6 turns at 100% science and 40 gold deficit. The AI is up feudalism and machinery on us.
Korea still looks a really scary prospect to attack, I don't know if we would be better off taking throwing in with them against the Vikings if they look to be winning.
Our finances are in a mess and we need more trading partners, hmm I know a good solution to this:
sell priesthood to Wang for 60g
sell alphabet to Toku for 60g
sell alphabet to Shaka for 100g
We now have all the AI's gold to fund our deficit research, and have +5 relations with both Toku and Shaka and they will trade other stuff now. (Toku is even willing to open borders.) As a bonus Ragnar isn't even annoyed at us for trading with his worst enemies.
Hire 2 scientists in thebes (GS in 4 turns) and cancel archer, start Heroic Epic instead. Better to focus on production here as it's our best production city and already has a GG merged and build national epic in Washington which has a million food. I don't hire scientists there yet since we want to whip the courthouse there asap.
We have about zero chance of invading Korea successfully with our chariots right now (protective civ with its capital on a hill and spears and elephants in addition, get real) so I pull everything I can to Philadelphia.
Turn 1: IW in. Wang is sending a settler with 2 spears to build in the middle of our territory, I consider closing borders with him but it looks like he blocks the sea trade routes to the other civs and although Ragnar will open borders that isn't enough to fill our trade route quota once we have currency.
More trading, spare military resources are NICE
Horse to Shaka for Corn + 4gpt (he has crab and pig that we can trade for later too. We don't need that right now so -)
Rice to Wang for 4gpt
Ivory to Toku for Wine + 5gpt and open borders
CoL + Lit to Shaka for Construction! + 20g
CoL + Lit to Toku for Monarchy
and Lit to Wang for Monotheism + 10g
I couldn't get them to throw in sailing, science to 100% temporarily to research it so we open up Calendar.
start chopping 2 grass river forests at Thebes for the Heroic Epic and 1 plains river forest at Memphis for courthouse.
Turn 2: Nada
Turn 3: We catch a lucky break as the Vikings declare war on Korea!! Wang comes asking for help but I decline. It seems unlikely that the war will go anywhere or we'll be able to take advantage in the short term, since both have longbows.
Oh look, our peace treaty with Roosevelt expired and he has three exposed workers which we just happen to need to connect more spare resources. Declare war and pick one off, the other two will hide in Philadelphia and we'll get them afterwards. Our American cities are now unhappy. Revolt to hereditary rule and slavery to solve this.
Turn 4: Battle of Philadelphia, I sent 8 chariots against 4 random defenders
chariot < spear
chariot < sword
chariot < archer
chariot > archer
chariot > sword
chariot > spear
chariot > archer
I keep the city. Roosevelt sent out a couple of boats though which will harrass our fishing. Thanks for the 3 workers.
In other news we have finished research on both sailing and meditation, and Aristotle shows up to teach us Philosophy founding Taoism in Memphis. Missionary will go to NY since it's in a culture fight with Korea. The pesky Koreans build a city in the middle of our lands as expected. Sell them meditation for 180 gold.
Set research to civil service as no one has it. Unfortunately it will take 22 turns.
Turn 5: Heroic epic up in Thebes -> Elephant - Fire scientists for production and growth.
Check trades. Wang wants philo + 370 gold for feud (ouch), no deal, we need that cash for CS research. Instead I trade him for philo = calendar + 190 gold and getting relations back to pleased, because we really need calendar. Shaka doesn't have calendar, so we can get it.
Whip court @ washington -> overflow into rax. Whip grana at Teoihuacan -> replacement fishing boat
Turn 6: Shaka will now take philo + calendar for casting + currency, so we do that trade. Shaka and Toku are now in WFYABTA mode.
razed Chicago for 12g.
Turn 7: nada
Turn 8: Killed a great general American sword which didn't have any promotions, weirdly. Our clams at Washington get pillaged in retaliation
Turn 9: Trade a spice for Toku's pig - we don't need it now but it will lock in the deal for later
Turn 10: an American archer and chariot have been skulking around near Thebes, micro the city to produce an elephant next turn (next player please reset for growth) Whip granary at Philadelphia.
Sell Meditation to Ragnar for 160g, since the AIs don't really seem to be bothered by small deals like this.
Roose is down to one city with a spear, axe and archer in the vicinity, we'll need another couple of units if we want to get rid of him totally. I suggest we only do that if we want to keep Visigoth, otherwise someone else will just settle it.
We have 626 gold and CS is due in 6 turns at 100% science and 40 gold deficit. The AI is up feudalism and machinery on us.
Korea still looks a really scary prospect to attack, I don't know if we would be better off taking throwing in with them against the Vikings if they look to be winning.
I did mainly economic builds this turn to sort out our crappy finances and infrastructure. (I seem to remember I'm usually the player who does this anyway 
) Military and gpp were temporarily sacrificed in favour of this so the next turnset should probably focus back on that area. Before anyone asks, we are not in pacifism, that's because I wanted to stay in no state religion for trading and diplomatic purposes.
) Military and gpp were temporarily sacrificed in favour of this so the next turnset should probably focus back on that area. Before anyone asks, we are not in pacifism, that's because I wanted to stay in no state religion for trading and diplomatic purposes.
acidsatyr
be water my friend...
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2006
- Messages
- 1,166
wheres pacifism!??? 
LOL its funny i remember my turns always warring, and then you and Mut come to clean up the mess
Good call for giving alphabet, kinda risky tho, sometimes theyll just take it and no + modifiers. I like it.
edit: one thing i dont think i like - giving away horses to agreesive civ like Shaka. Well be fighting those horses in the future
LOL its funny i remember my turns always warring, and then you and Mut come to clean up the mess
Good call for giving alphabet, kinda risky tho, sometimes theyll just take it and no + modifiers. I like it.
edit: one thing i dont think i like - giving away horses to agreesive civ like Shaka. Well be fighting those horses in the future
ThERat
Deity
I remember it was me last time who always ended up warring, acid taking over from muti who would whip/draft like mad....something like this
great write-up uberfish...and great diplomacy
I agree with acid we should not trade horses to a potential enemy. Better cancel that deal once we can. Usually I try not to trade happy luxes and resources unless the enemy is weak. I would keep America around for now, maybe we can use him to extort some stuff later on.
now I also remember, acid never posts rosters...
great write-up uberfish...and great diplomacy
I agree with acid we should not trade horses to a potential enemy. Better cancel that deal once we can. Usually I try not to trade happy luxes and resources unless the enemy is weak. I would keep America around for now, maybe we can use him to extort some stuff later on.
now I also remember, acid never posts rosters...
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