Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

Are there any additional tips to playing at the Demigod level? I can't seem to win it yet.
 
I expand, the AI asks me not to expand in their direction, I say I'm sorry (well, I stopped doing that actually, since it makes no difference), and then they denounce me the next turn, and within 10 turns I'm at war with 2 of my neighbors.

The "don't settle near us" is pretty annoying in particular. In the mod there is barely any point to ever agreeing not to settle since the AI will denounce you 3 turns later even if you do, and you'll be held to the promise besides. I feel like a denounce from a civ should void any promises made to the civ, really.
 
IMO, Acken's mod has made this worse.

I've played 2 or 3 vanilla games in the time since I've been playing Acken's mod (I picked it up pretty much right away), and the rest has been spent in here. I've been playing Liberty a lot in both now that it's very viable in the mod, and it's easily 10x easier to deal with the AI in vanilla than in the mod. Literally every game goes the exact same way now - I expand, the AI asks me not to expand in their direction, I say I'm sorry (well, I stopped doing that actually, since it makes no difference), and then they denounce me the next turn, and within 10 turns I'm at war with 2 of my neighbors. You need to try pretty hard to do that EVERY game in the unmodded game.

There IS a change, I can't reproduce that level of psychosis in the unmodded game, but it happens literally every single game with the mod. But, I guess the thing is - I enjoy it. I like wafflestomping an AI in the early game where unit strengths are measured in teens rather than 100's, so it makes it a lot easier to manage. I just plan for it now and assume I will be at war sometime in the first 60 turns, and it won't be my choice.

this is exactly why I go tradition pretty much every single game. if you're playing on demigod or above there is absolutely no way you can self-found more than five or six cities without instantly getting DOWed.

peaceful wide games just aren't possible. either you do a lot of early conquering, get a map where you're completely split off, or you have to stop at 5 or (if you're lucky) 6 cities.

tradition is still very strong with 5 or 6 cities in my opinion and is always a solid choice. if you want a more peaceful AI you have to play on Immortal or build more army. one of the two.

but honestly, isn't that the whole point of the mod? that you can't just self-found 8 cities and sim city to space while the AI does nothing and has no chance to catch up?

pretty sure I haven't had a single game of acken mod without getting DOWed. war is now an essential part of the game and there is a realistic chance to lose cities.

every single investment is now something you have to think about very carefully - water mill or spearman? swords or workshops? crossbows or universities?
 
The mod uses also a partial integration of Whoward's PickNMix DLL (and more to come as needed) that you can find there.

What is meant by "Partial Integration"?

Is the Acken's DLL intended to allow use of WHoward's DLL-dependent mods, similar to the CPP DLL?

As far as I know that only works because both DLL - Various Mod Components and (1) Community Patch share the Mod ID d1b6328c-ff44-4b0d-aad7-c657f83610cd, which is the dependency listed for WHoward's DLL-dependent mods.

If there's a way to do this with the Acken DLL I'd be thrilled to use some of these again:
Spoiler :

Global
  • Civilians Move After Purchase
  • CS Liberate After Buyout
  • CS Raze Rarely
  • CS Unit Upgrades
  • Grateful Settlers
  • Local Generals
  • National Wonders Exclude Razing
  • Naval Nearest Water
  • No Followup From Cities
  • No More Civilian Traffic Jams
  • Passable Forts
  • Pro-Rata Building Purchase
  • Religious Settlers
  • Remove Ghost Routes
  • Truly Free Great People
  • Venice Keeps Resources
Goody Huts
  • No Auto-Mapping
  • Tech Refund
Units
  • Multiple Upgrades
  • Subs Immune Under Ice
 
Partial in the sense that I only took the parts I needed for my own use and therefore had to give credits to the original coder. Mods that therefore need it to work won't be compatible with my mod since most of it (90%) is not integrated.

That said something like Truly free great people or tech refund could be put in the mod at som point.
 
Good for you. I'll let Civ5 gather some dust for the next few months, maybe then the modding community will have made a decent game out of it.

The game has been around for almost 6 years. Whatever game you think you want has probably already been made.

That being said, just because you don't understand the system doesn't mean the AI are psychopaths. They have reasons for doing what they do, you just don't understand what you're doing to them.

Unmodded civ is actually TOO carebear for me. I don't like it because it's too easy to be friends with everyone on the map and never be at war with anyone. That's one of the reasons Acken's mod is such a breath of fresh air to me - I shouldn't get along with my neighbors. Our borders SHOULDN'T touch. We should be clawing tooth and nail for territory. That's the way the world has been for the entirety of civilization on this planet, and we shouldn't be all touchy feely about things.

Seriously, base game diplomacy is pretty easy to work with if you know what you're doing. You can be friends with everyone the entire game if you want to. That's broken, as far as I'm concerned.
 
The game has been around for almost 6 years. Whatever game you think you want has probably already been made.

That's no excuse, there are still tons of mods in development for Civ4 which is even older, but then again Civ4 is the better game in the first place.

That being said, just because you don't understand the system doesn't mean the AI are psychopaths. They have reasons for doing what they do, you just don't understand what you're doing to them.

So what is Askia's, being on an entirely different continent and having seen nothing more from me than a single trireme, reason for thinking I'm expanding too aggressively? What is Maria's reason to hate my guts even though our borders DON'T touch, she settled a city on the other side of the continent herself, and we have a common enemy who declared war on us both? Suleiman I can kind of understand getting into a two front war because the latest city I settled is closer to his capital than mine and he probably thinks I'm easy pickings. Venice I can kind of understand because I laughed in their face when they told me to not settle so close to them and they probably just declared because they did so together with the Ottomans who they can use for all the heavy work. With Enrico's and Suleiman's behavior I don't have a problem, their behavior is, if pretty aggressive, a somewhat reasonable reaction to my own actions. What I do have a problem with is Maria acting against her own interests by treating me like dirt even though I did literally nothing she has a reason for taking offense with, and I am for all intents and purposes the only potential friend she has seeing as we both share a common enemy who just razed one of her cities.

Maria's behavior is akin to Stalin telling the Americans and British off when they were trying to help him after the invasion by Hitler. At least there they had ideology to ensure hatred before and after, but not during the freaking war for survival. Here Maria doesn't even have that, and her attitude makes no bloody sense whatsoever, be it in a gameplay or a realistic sense, and is just immersion breaking.

To say nothing about Askia!

Unmodded civ is actually TOO carebear for me. I don't like it because it's too easy to be friends with everyone on the map and never be at war with anyone. That's one of the reasons Acken's mod is such a breath of fresh air to me - I shouldn't get along with my neighbors. Our borders SHOULDN'T touch. We should be clawing tooth and nail for territory. That's the way the world has been for the entirety of civilization on this planet, and we shouldn't be all touchy feely about things.

My borders don't touch with anyone on the entire planet and still everyone hates my guts.

There is nothing touchy feely about this, Maria is acting against her own best interests by demanding three resources for any one of hers from the guy that is her war ally and wants to help her fight back the Ottoman invaders that razed one of her cities. That's not realpolitik, that is suicidal behavior against all logic that has probably never happened in history.

Suleiman attacking me makes a bit of sense. Venice attacking me makes a bit of sense. Portugal hating me makes no sense and Askia having a negative modifier for me settling too aggressively is beyond immersion breaking.
 
Sadly theres so much a mod can fix.. Diplomacy itself is terribly broken in the first place; like the idea of everybody around hating you for declaring war on someone is just plain baffling, why would you include that in an empire building game? Especially the AI being snide towards the player for "picking on a weakling" :lol: Just because the AI cannot fight competently doesn't really justify making all the leaders morally uptight.

On another note, how does this mod affect Vanilla turn times?
 
On another note, how does this mod affect Vanilla turn times?

You should feel no difference early on and then slightly longer late game turns. If one AI owns half the world and has a huge army his turn may be longer than usual.
 
So what is Askia's, being on an entirely different continent and having seen nothing more from me than a single trireme, reason for thinking I'm expanding too aggressively? What is Maria's reason to hate my guts even though our borders DON'T touch, she settled a city on the other side of the continent herself, and we have a common enemy who declared war on us both? Suleiman I can kind of understand getting into a two front war because the latest city I settled is closer to his capital than mine and he probably thinks I'm easy pickings. Venice I can kind of understand because I laughed in their face when they told me to not settle so close to them and they probably just declared because they did so together with the Ottomans who they can use for all the heavy work. With Enrico's and Suleiman's behavior I don't have a problem, their behavior is, if pretty aggressive, a somewhat reasonable reaction to my own actions. What I do have a problem with is Maria acting against her own interests by treating me like dirt even though I did literally nothing she has a reason for taking offense with, and I am for all intents and purposes the only potential friend she has seeing as we both share a common enemy who just razed one of her cities.

Maria's behavior is akin to Stalin telling the Americans and British off when they were trying to help him after the invasion by Hitler. At least there they had ideology to ensure hatred before and after, but not during the freaking war for survival. Here Maria doesn't even have that, and her attitude makes no bloody sense whatsoever, be it in a gameplay or a realistic sense, and is just immersion breaking.

To say nothing about Askia!

My borders don't touch with anyone on the entire planet and still everyone hates my guts.

There is nothing touchy feely about this, Maria is acting against her own best interests by demanding three resources for any one of hers from the guy that is her war ally and wants to help her fight back the Ottoman invaders that razed one of her cities. That's not realpolitik, that is suicidal behavior against all logic that has probably never happened in history.

Suleiman attacking me makes a bit of sense. Venice attacking me makes a bit of sense. Portugal hating me makes no sense and Askia having a negative modifier for me settling too aggressively is beyond immersion breaking.

There is literally not a single thing random in the equation. An AI, by definition, cannot be psychopathic, they strictly follow the in-game logic. I advise you to read up on the Civ 5 diplomacy since you seem oblivious as to what some of your actions might cause.

Read this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=524435

Have a look at this chart:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=409062

I highly advise you to use a mod like InfoAddict when you're new to the game. Knowing exactly when the AI gets a negative modifier means knowing exactly which of your actions triggered it.

One more thought: You seem to look t the AIs behaviour and somehow "make sense" of it. Don't do that. They're not actual humans, there is no rational reasoning whatsoever. This will just make you more confused.

I will give you an example:

You were wondering why the Portugal AI was worrying about your expansion, when in fact, she settled a city right next to yours. This is the logic behind it: First, you start off with no contested borders. Then, she settles a city next to yours. Now you have contested borders. Not only that, but she is also coveting your lands, since they're now in the way of her expansion plans. It doesn't matter that she forward settled you at all, a computer does not have to justify its "hatred" for you ethically.
 
There is literally not a single thing random in the equation. An AI, by definition, cannot be psychopathic, they strictly follow the in-game logic. I advise you to read up on the Civ 5 diplomacy since you seem oblivious as to what some of your actions might cause.

I never said anything was random, doesn't mean they still aren't acting unreasonable.

I am using InfoAddict, and Enhanced User Interface too for that matter.

You were wondering why the Portugal AI was worrying about your expansion, when in fact, she settled a city right next to yours. This is the logic behind it: First, you start off with no contested borders. Then, she settles a city next to yours. Now you have contested borders. Not only that, but she is also coveting your lands, since they're now in the way of her expansion plans. It doesn't matter that she forward settled you at all, a computer does not have to justify its "hatred" for you ethically.

myself said:
My borders don't touch with anyone on the entire planet and still everyone hates my guts.

Also you have a wrong picture of the situation: I am on the south end of a continent with Venice to my east, Portugal to my northwest and Suleiman to the far north. Portugal settled a city on the east coast, north of Venice, but that is not anywhere near me, though one of my cities now is kind of inbetween her newest city and the rest of her empire, but no borders are actually touching.

Also I don't care about ethics, I care about an AI that doesn't behave like it should. Like I said, I don't mind Suleiman and Venice doubleteaming me, they have a valid reasoning for attacking me, but I mind Portugal and Songhai hating me for no reason whatsoevef especially when the former actually has a valid reason for working together with me.
 
Also I don't care about ethics, I care about an AI that doesn't behave like it should.

The AI behaves EXACTLY like it should because that's how it's coded to behave.

It's really not that hard to figure out. What everyone here is saying is that you don't understand how the AI behaves, so you're having trouble making sense of it. If you educate yourself on how the AI works, you will no longer be surprised by it.

You can't play the game when you don't know the rules everyone else is playing by.
 
Borders don't have to literally touch in order to have contested borders . . .

Sometimes an AI will settle 10 hexes away from you and you still get contested borders and coveting your lands.
 
The AI behaves EXACTLY like it should because that's how it's coded to behave.

Apparently I have to spell it out for you: The AI shouldn't have been coded that way in the first place. I never doubted for a second that they were following their programming, because they are just pieces of code, duh, but I am very unhappy with the way they were programmed, and hence are behaving.

It's really not that hard to figure out. What everyone here is saying is that you don't understand how the AI behaves, so you're having trouble making sense of it. If you educate yourself on how the AI works, you will no longer be surprised by it.

I do understand how the AI behaves, and I go even one step beyond that by recognizing that the way the AI behaves is stupid, immersion breaking, nonsensical and in need of changing.

You can't play the game when you don't know the rules everyone else is playing by.

Maybe I don't want to play the game anymore because the rules everyone else is playing by are stupid and no fun.
 
Idk if anyone has suggested this already or not but a mode between Emperor and Immortal might help some people.

Also for anyone who has been playing this mod alot, is Tradition still the best on this mod like it is on the main game? It seemed to be a couple versions ago when I played it.

Also to the people complaining about how the AI works: I think the AI coding makes them roleplay who they are which is why they will do stuff that doesn't always make sense. It's a shame they didn't make a roleplay toggle or something.
 
Liberty is really good and if you can combine honor with tributes you'll also get a quick start.

Looks like Tradition remains buffed though. I'll try the strategy that I just got my first deity win with, on your mod on deity this time and see if I get destroyed or not.
 
Hehe good luck with that... :D

Turn 114 and still fighting to settle a 4th city I've probably lost lol. They definitely settle faster on your mod. Part of the reason I'm still alive may be because I'm playing Greece btw.

10 turns later I lose to another attack by a 5th guy who isn't supposed to be on nq continents, but I doubt I would have won anyway. Also the AI seems to have an issue with attacking cities. Both the Aztecs and Poland each were on a city of mine right next to them and kinda just sat around for a few turns before taking them out.
 
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