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Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Modpacks' started by Acken, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. Chum

    Chum King

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    I don't really know either - that installs as it's own program!
     
  2. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    A bit disappointed about the salt nerf: it seems now that in terms of yield numbers it is 1 less than others: 3f 2h (5 total) compared to, say, a camp with ivory: 1f 1h 4g (6 total), but I guess it was too good anyway for giving early food and hammers.

    Anyway, does anyone have an interesting map with the latest patch? I am intrigued by Rome now.
     
  3. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    The mod uses a base line that 1food = 1hammer = 2gold to do its yield balancing

    therefore the ivory camp is in regards to the mod still inferior to the salt. Another example is how pearls are now +3G instead of +2G to be balanced with whales/crabs which are +1F +1G or engineers being +2H and merchants +4G
     
  4. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    Why?

    Also, if you do it this way, then allowing lumber mills on jungle tiles makes them a much better choice than trading posts. After Scientific Theory, you get 2f 2h 2s tiles, while after Economics, those are 2f 3g 2s tiles, so now it's 2h = 3g.
     
  5. rkade8583

    rkade8583 Realism Invictus Player

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  6. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Why what ? Gold sources are right now way better than it was in base Civ5. The early ratio is lower AND gold sources give more. Salt was just soooo ridiculous and still is imo.

    Unless you use commerce and get 1 more gold out of it but yes I wanted to make trading posts a long term +4G initially but waited to see how it felt at +3G.

    Hmmm what exactly is in this dll ? Do you know a source ?

    Edit: Im at least able to launch both at the same time and start a game...
     
  7. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    Why did you decide on 1food = 1hammer = 2gold for balance?

    Also, I did not see it in the changelog, but caravans are now down to 2 base food?
     
  8. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    The base game uses for its spending something like a 1:4 ratio for gold. A library costs 75 hammers or 400 gold (this reduces drastically later on). However for its uses it uses a 1:1 ratio. So that you get 2gold for a merchant or 2 hammer for an engineer.
    The problem is obvious. I decided to put things closer to 1:2 for its sources and closer to 1:3 for its uses. The difference between the two is that gold has also an advantage from trade routes and is very flexible (can be hoarded, moved around etc). The cost formula was also changed to make early buys cheaper and late buys more expansive. The % modifiers were also adjusted to be more in line with the production modifiers to keep the same ratio throughout the game.

    Nobody in the base game uses a 2F 3G incense over a 3F 1H cow. However 2F 4G with the potential of being 5G with a GA starts to become a lot more attractive especially in a game where a granary costs 290 instead of 340.

    Caravan food being at -1 compared to the base game is something that I'm very likely to change back in the next version as it no longer feel necessary with the added value of early gold in v5. It's also a bit weird to have food lower than production.
     
  9. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    Ok I see.

    I played about 100 turns as Arabia with Piety, and the all the AI's are so mad... I stole a worker from Pocatello, and he was mad and denouncing for the rest of time. :eek: I got a quadruple DoW, so I had to reload and bribe, but Caesar still DoW'ed me and streamrolled through my cities with his carpet. The AI's are also attacking city-states like no tomorrow, and all without exception get upset about aggressive expanding, even though I founded 3 cities and met them after that. :confused: Is Demigod supposed to be Deity+?
     
  10. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    Demigod is indeed quite potent, however I feel like Piety was definitely the wrong choice in that setup, as well as worker stealing, Acken made that bit really punishing, you see (I learned it the hard way). And since you really can't compete with the AI carpets in this mod, the best you can hope for is that they're spread around just enough for you to be able to hold on and/or take the fight to them. When I started toying around with this mod, I chose the easy mode and picked Rome/Greece/Persia because of really good early game UUs which were good enough to take out one or two neighbors before later. However, the conquest left me a bit behind in science and in this mod, AIs tech much better

    The way I see it, Byzantium and maybe Celts are the only civs which might make Piety work in this mod. Besides, it's I think still early to make it conclusive
     
  11. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Demigod is a punch in the face and deity a kick in the nuts. Base game deity is more like immortal or emperor.

    That said im still working on ai psychpatic behavior.
     
  12. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    Be careful with the caravan food. It's easy to get into a situation where using a caravan as a food route is ALWAYS the correct choice. Food SHOULD be less than hammers, because it is more useful, in most cases. Having a +10 food bonus to your capital is going to be more powerful than a +10 hammer bonus, in the long run. In the short run the hammers might be better, yes. In the long run, however, that extra food can be converted to whatever the player wants.
     
  13. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I fully agree that food should always be lower than hammers. It's clearly the better long-term investment.

    However, I don't think buffing Trade Routes is a bad idea. I honestly feel like ITRs are completely lackluster in comparison to ETRs at the moment. Especially in the early game Caravans really blow and are often not worth making, seeing as how all of your cities want to get up Granaries and Water Mills before that, seeing as they're all +2 Food.
     
  14. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Emperor

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    Actually, I stole a worker from Pedro, and he was rather friendly afterwards. Pocatello is usually a nice guy, but he is pretty vicious in my game. I will post a screenshot when I get home, but I actually built some archers and spearmen -- about 10 units total, and I have the money to upgrade them into pikes and xbows against Caesar's musketmen... which are strong. I could potentially reload 10-15 turns back to upgrade and move my troops/buy and build more, but I do't know if it's worth it and if the AI changes its mind and not attack me, if I have a big army? He won't DoW anyone else, btw.

    Also, I intended to go for ez pz Diplo, but the AI's keep annexing CS, so at this rate only half the CS are alive on t141. How much does this mod affect DiploV, when the world gets reduced to a handful of superpowers by lategame?

    And what implications does it have for civs like Sweden, Greece, or Siam? Greek or Siam's UA basically become useless at the end of the game, when there are only 2-3 free CS left.

    It seems that founding even 1 expo triggers a never-ending concern about aggressive expansion, and they covet your lands at all times.

    By the way, I saw on your youtube channel that you you are playing "community balance patch." What is that, and is it compatible with your mod?

    PS: I also noticed you can't sell a strategic resource for 2 gpt. :p I will watch your Byzantium LP and then try playing again on Emperor or something.
     
  15. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    The Community Balance Patch is a whole different thing, it has some interesting stuff as well
     
  16. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Diplo victory somewhat requires the player to gift units to cs and liberate. Turtling for a diplo victory is often not posible. You ll also have to reach globalization. The mod however facilitates early alliances by uping the rate at which you get quests. The current issue in the mod is about patronage wich is rather bad unless you truly save cs.

    Cs are mostly getting eaten by domination focused ais. Its not something easily fixable if i want to keep diplo being harder and domination civs to not get blocked by cs. Tbh i think i will have to move away from stuff that scales with cs number, civ abilities and policies. I think its terrible design to begin with.

    Strategics sell for 1gpt or 30gold each.

    Community balance patch is another mod. Not at all compatible. Its fun, has a lot of new features and cool ideas. A bit easy to my liking though and not a big fan of its warfare. It's a lot more different from base civ5 than my mod is too.

    Also do not mistake the diplo negative for land dispute with the one for city number. The first one is upped a ton in the mod while the other one is reduced. The land dispute modifier will probably get a modifier for ai personality in the next version unless the ai is aiming for domination.
     
  17. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    Having "half of the CS remaining" by lategame is being very optimistic, usually you can count them on one hand :lol: :lol:
     
  18. rkade8583

    rkade8583 Realism Invictus Player

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  19. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    I cant do much without a source on github for example. If i have time ill look for it.
     
  20. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    I wouldn't say internal trade routes are lacklustre, they are often still the way to go. Even if you want gold, boosting the food in your best money city to hire merchants, and have their output boosted by a market and a bank can often match the gold from an external route, and then you get GPP for a great merchant that can give you a ton of gold in other ways.

    It all depends on what you're doing. Obviously, playing Germany you'd get as many CS trade routes as possible. But if you're playing Korea, you'd rather have merchants.
     

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