Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

kirbdog · Sep 3, 2015

The highlights of what the mod did were:

-- It kept the AI from building dumb buildings before better buildings
-- It specifically forced the AI into building libraries and a national college
-- It kept the AI from wandering too far off the path before picking up science techs in each era
-- It also herded the AI a bit better through cultural policy selection

The result was to make the AI much more effective in peaceful play (without making it any more likely to devote resources to buildings over units), with just a few simple changes (simple in concept--some were not easy to implement). Science victories came much more quickly to the AI. But it should also keep the AI from falling behind on tech, in general, at lower difficulties.

Nigel_Tufnel2 · Sep 3, 2015

Acken - yes, many unimproved tiles in my 2.1 game. One big captured city with a Hydroplant and very few improved tiles along the river. Farms on Uranium, but not all farmed - as I got nuked hard. :rolleyes:

The CS look fine, and some cities look normal - it seems very spotty.

Acken · Sep 3, 2015

I'm trying to find why. Reverting to the base builder AI works fine but the AI loves to spam trade posts a bit too much for my taste...

Edit: Alright somewhat fixed it. Not a huge fan of how the AI has a tendency to move workers in herds though :/

Erneiz Hyde · Sep 3, 2015

Acken said:
Regarding Stonehenge my problem is more with the Mosque actually. Comes late, isn't that hot.

It's late only if one goes purely Piety. When you mix it with another tree, I find that The Mosque is aptly placed. OTOH, I do like the idea of Mosque being only build-able on Holy City, because it forces a choice between Borobudur.

chumchu · Sep 3, 2015

- I meant keeping all 6 column as well. (Basically just change the name). I'm seeing the potential for bugs as well.

- Canons for Arsenals can work

- OK

The great mosque was useful in rare cases. Basically when you are going to spread your religion wide with missionaries and prophets. The best enhancer for that is significantly stronger. I say you can give it more GPP and call it a day.

Acken · Sep 3, 2015

I'm also working in improving the AI logic with great people. As a proposed game change I've made Great musician move 6 tiles ans enter enemy territory without war (like missionaries).

The reason is that musician movements and open border to make concerts are really problematic for the AI but players have a whole toolset of exploits to get around it.
Edit: If I could I'd even just remove the need to move the great musician

Edit: Things seem to be coming together. I tried a level 2 (warlord) game and the Darius AI won a CV in 384 turns. I'm not even sure the AI wins before the limit at that level in the base game
:woohoo:

Nigel_Tufnel2 · Sep 4, 2015

Update on v2.1 Alex Demi-God - the CSs did start building advanced units quickly, and Persia only took one of them. The AI teched well, and Arabia was doing very well towards a Freedom CV. Austria rolled Egypt and Shaka and was in perma wars all game. Only 4 civs were left.

Persia's DOW of me was well-timed and set back my SV by quite a lot of turns. He pissed me off so I took his five best cities, and got a t293 SV. I had to delay Rat finish for happy policies, and ended up with 4-5 faith bought GS and popped several late naturally, so I ended up 2 deep in Future Tech. It was a very satisfying game in the end. What would have been a cake-walk Immortal or even Deity SV ended up having quite a lot of tension most of the game. The mod is working quite well! I think this map would make for a pretty interesting challenge game.

Acken · Sep 6, 2015

Nigel_Tufnel2 said:
Update on v2.1 Alex Demi-God - the CSs did start building advanced units quickly, and Persia only took one of them. The AI teched well, and Arabia was doing very well towards a Freedom CV. Austria rolled Egypt and Shaka and was in perma wars all game. Only 4 civs were left.

Persia's DOW of me was well-timed and set back my SV by quite a lot of turns. He pissed me off so I took his five best cities, and got a t293 SV. I had to delay Rat finish for happy policies, and ended up with 4-5 faith bought GS and popped several late naturally, so I ended up 2 deep in Future Tech. It was a very satisfying game in the end. What would have been a cake-walk Immortal or even Deity SV ended up having quite a lot of tension most of the game. The mod is working quite well! I think this map would make for a pretty interesting challenge game.

Thank you for the feedback Nigel and I'm glad you enjoyed the experience.

You guys can now test a new version in the experimental link (OP or below) with the following list of changes:
Experimental

Spoiler :

Phukit · Sep 7, 2015

Acken said:
Thank you for the feedback Nigel and I'm glad you enjoyed the experience.

You guys can now test a new version in the experimental link (OP or below) with the following list of changes:
Experimental

Spoiler :

-The AI should no longer sit too long (after 60 turns) on less than 4 cities (even on chieftain ). I'm looking at you Gustavus.
-Fixed the GS/GW bug giving too much science/culture
-The Nuclear plant no longer consumes Uranium but requires an Uranium ressource near the city instead.
-Small bump in CS unit numbers
-The deal AI will no longer put things they value at 0 in it when asking for the AI to rebalance (horses and iron) ! Yeah !!!
-The AI should use artists and scientific specialists more (diminished the effect of city focus). The days where the AI preffer 2 food ocean tiles to scientists or the AI ignoring their guilds are over.
As a side effect the player own automated specialists should follow the same rules for your puppets or if you're lazy
-The AI should be less likely to build National wonders and 2 slot specialist buildings (guilds) in small cities
-The AI should build more growth buildings in small cities
-The Library, PaperMaker and royal library (assyria UB) now gives also +2 science
-The Research laboratory gives +2 science instead of +4
-Cargos increase route yield by 50% rather than 100%
-Coast should feature 30% more fishes

-Worked on technologies flavors (more logical values, for exemple Guilds or Refrigeration had no culture value !)
-Worked on Units flavors
-Worked on building flavors
-Worked on AI strategy flavors
-Made the weight discount for time bigger for techs. The AI should ignore cheap techs for a lot less longer (no more Great war infantry without schools or Flight without compass)
-Better AI workers (stop the trade post spam stupid)
-Better AI logic for great peoples. Completely rewrote the directive logic. No more 100 tourism musicians or early bulbs:
Great works have now top priority for culture victories
Less golden ages (no more for ideology pressure and war mobilization), more great works
No concert before 500tpt
Warmongers should still think about keeping a GE around for 10turns max if it wants a wonder
GS should make more academies early on
-The AI will no longer pay full price for luxuries if it swims in happiness
-Prophets are now 4 movements (same as missionaries)
-Musicians are now 6 movements, let music fly far and wide ! (helps the AI, the player has a bunch of exploits to go around that anyway)
-Musicians can now enter enemy territory without declaring war (same reason, players could work arount it but not the AI !)
-All difficulties AI start with 2 warrior minimum (still 3 on 7-8)
-Removed Scientific Method as a prereq for Steam Power
-Removed Economics as a prereq for Rifling
-The prereqs for compass are now Philosophy and sailing
-Infantry is now available at Combined Arms
-Cannon has been swapped with arsenal
-Pikeman is now available at Chivalry
-Caravans and Cargos are no longer considered military units

-Baringer Crater is now 4science 4gold
-Grand Mesa is now 4hammer 4gold
-Krakatoa is now 6 science and should be on the coast more often
-Gibraltar is now 3food 6gold
-Old Faithful is now 3science 3happiness
-Potossi is now 12 gold and is now as common as the others
-Solomon Mines are now as common as the others

Wonders GPP bonuses have been added or changed:
-GreatLibrary +1 Writer GPP
-Angkor Wat +2 Writer GPP
-Forbidden Palace +1 Writer GPP
-Globe Theater +2 Writer GPP
-Neuschwanstein +1 Writer GPP
-Mausoleum +1 Artist GPP
-TerraCotta Army +1 Artist GPP
-Alhambra +1 Artist GPP
-Borobodur +1 Artist GPP
-Hagia Sophia +1 Artist GPP
-Parthenon +1 Artist GPP
-Uffizi +1 Artist GPP
-SistineChapel +1 Artist GPP
-TajMahal +1 Artist GPP
-Louvre +1 Artist GPP
-CN Tower +2 Musician GPP
-Broadway +1 Musician GPP
-Sydney Opear +2 Musician GPP
-NotreDame +1 Musician
-Cristo Redemptor +1 Engineer GPP
-Hanging Gardens +1 Engineer GPP
-Kremlin +1 Engineer GPP
-Prora +1 Engineer GPP
-Statue of Liberty +1 Engineer GPP
-Pisa +1 Engineer GPP
-Great Firewall +2 Scientist GPP
-Hubble +2 Scientist GPP

-Caravansary now costs 60 hammer, boost external routes by 3 gold and is available at animal husbandry
-Borobodur is now the Piety wonder
-The great mosque is available to everyone but must be built in a holy city
-Angkor Wat now also gives a free university and 3 culture
-The east india company also gives a trade route slot
-Police stations cost 200 production (down from 300)
-National intelligence agency requires constabularies instead of police stations
-RedFort cost is now 450 instead of 625
-Windmill, Seaport, Hospital, Medical Lab, Stadium, Recycling Center costs are reduced by 20%
-Looking for ideas for terracota army, pentagon, kremlin

i like these changes thought i still hate med labs.

a 20% cost reduction for a building im sure most people build 0% of the time is pointless.

med labs come way too late to be worth the investment.

Erneiz Hyde · Sep 7, 2015

Acken said:
-Looking for ideas for terracota army, pentagon, kremlin

Maybe give Kremlin another trade route? But considering you've given a lot of those already, maybe give the Iron Curtain trade route bonus to it and make IC give a free courthouse in every city (ala Carthage harbor). Nobody ever uses Iron Curtain anyways so it needed a buff as well.

Would it be OP to replace Terracota Army with the Pentagon effect, considering the close proximity to the Honor policy? Also, is it possible to code in a bonus to COUP chance (not rigging)? Pentagon can have it, or replace the double rigging chance in Freedom with that.

Acken · Sep 7, 2015

Yes it's possible to code better coups with a little work... afaik. It's an interesting idea.

Will consider the idea for terracota army or a weaker version of it. Not sure about Kremlin.

Jullego · Sep 7, 2015

Acken said:
-Looking for ideas for terracota army, pentagon, kremlin

What if it also gave +10 (or 15) hit points to all your units? Not sure if hit points can be modded though.

I also found a minor thing: when you select difficulty from the setup the choices are "old" difficulties (7. is still immortal and 8. deity) but when you have selected, it shows the "new" one on the screen.

Acken · Sep 7, 2015

Jullego said:
What if it also gave +10 (or 15) hit points to all your units? Not sure if hit points can be modded though.

I also found a minor thing: when you select difficulty from the setup the choices are "old" difficulties (7. is still immortal and 8. deity) but when you have selected, it shows the "new" one on the screen.

It can probably be done yes not sure it would be that much different from a flat strength bonus though.

Yes that's a known "problem". It's a choice I made at 2.0 it's either that way or not changing the names at all and instead just change the AI bonus. I found the current way a bit less confusing because at least it works fine in the advanced setup.
There is no known solution to the problem, what happens is that the buttons for difficulties in the list are not recreated when loading a mod so it displays the ones it created when starting the game.

chumchu · Sep 8, 2015

- I do not see the problem with Terracotta as it is self-balancing. The longer people wait to build it, the better it is. The player will probably rarely build it on higher difficulties, but that is the case with many wonders.

- Pentagon has useful effect, it just to expensive. Down to 750 hammers?

- Kremlin could use a total redesign. Perhaps take one of the level 2 tenets. If we want a small change you could change it to give a large bonus (35%?) to military production in the city in which it is built to encourage specialisation between cities.

chumchu · Sep 8, 2015

Tested a zulu game before the latest experimental changes. Demigod, fractal, standard. Played liberty and was able to take out the 2 civs on my continent, trad dutch with spearmen and honor germany with impis. Took out america on the other continent with the rest of my impis and stopped tyhere as the game was basically won (was leading infrastructure and building up to frigate rush the other capitals).

Pikes were really strong this game and I think moving them will work out well. Another thing I noticed was that I could steal two early workers from an AI at this level (do they start with 2?) and that it boosts me a lot. My target was effectively crippled and never managed to build anyquarries to go with his quarry pantheon.

Will test out a war game with the new changes

Acken · Sep 8, 2015

Yes they have 2 workers on this difficulty.

There's not many solutions against worker stealing though. The simplest is a 30turn ban on wars but I'm hesitant. Maybe I can boost border vision to avoid farming though at least.

I've put a tentative fix for a future version, should reduce farming.

Grendeldef · Sep 9, 2015

Playing the experimental released on 7th and just wondering if I have missed something something drastic as neutral civs were only paying for 2-4 gpt per lux and moreover my DoF buddy offered hefty 25g + embassy for a lux nor are any of them doing 1 for 1 swaps. Not a game breaker but making any early money is tricky business here.

---

Also the Japs had multiple Samurais on late 50s which is too early especially with the welcomed postponing of Pikes and the Danes could perhaps use a buff but 40s Berserkers vs def 12 cities isn't gonna be a fair match-up. Something like making Guilds a prerequisite for all bottom late medieval techs could help.

khaciv · Sep 9, 2015

Grendeldef said:
Playing the experimental released on 7th and just wondering if I have missed something something drastic as as neutral civs were only paying for 2-4 gpt per lux and moreover my DoF buddy offered hefty 25g + embassy for a lux nor are any of them doing 1 for 1 swaps. Not a game breaker but making any early money is tricky business here.

yeah, extra lux and resource copies seem useless now.
In my current game i just give them away.

Some clarity about what they want to give would be nice because
i dont want to spent every turn in the diplomacy screen trying to get the best deal.

chumchu · Sep 9, 2015

Worker stealing has gone from a low risk/high reward move to medium risk/high reward with the mod. I now try to do it against more peaceful civs to avoid getting rushed or bogged down in a long war.

The ideal solution against worker stealing is getting the AI:s warriors to tail their workers and settlers for the first 50 turns, imo. That might be hard to code as it operates in a different way. You could apply the same to city states.

Getting the peaceful AI:s to fight back better might make it more of a risk to steal from them and could be a second best solution. Now I stole Williams two workers and he peaced out 5-10 turns later.

Grendeldef · Sep 9, 2015

chumchu said:
Worker stealing has gone from a low risk/high reward move to medium risk/high reward with the mod. I now try to do it against more peaceful civs to avoid getting rushed or bogged down in a long war.

The ideal solution against worker stealing is getting the AI:s warriors to tail their workers and settlers for the first 50 turns, imo.

Or just make them killable like great persons. This would also effectively remove the somewhat cheezy worker luring tactics from the game.

Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

King

King

Deity

Warlord

Warlord

Deity

King

Deity

Warlord

Warlord

Deity

Chieftain

Deity

Warlord

Warlord

Deity

Trancerelic & coffeeholic

Chieftain

Warlord

Trancerelic & coffeeholic

Similar threads