Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

[Acken]

Indeed. Hidden antiquities make thematical sense in exploration but are totally useless there. If hidden sites gave more general bonuses for all victories then it could have stayed there but hidden antiquities is almost totally a culture victory thing.

The Louvre could be the aesthetics wonder to be honest instead of Uffizi. In general exploration could use another wonder. Maybe a total conversion of one available in medieval and above era.

Meanwhile the Louvre is available for 1 policy which is not too hard on a culture game.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Turn times are fine right now, I don't even notice a difference compared to the base game, and I'm a very impatient person.

Turn times definitely go up big time, just because the AI settles more and builds way, way, way more units. I had a game where I honestly waited 2 to 3 minutes between turns. Lowest graphics settings possible, I have a shi tty laptop :/

 

[Acken]

It's mostly CPU power if it's late game AI turns related. My overclocked 2500K has no problem though

 

[beetle]

If hidden sites gave more general bonuses for all victories then it could have stayed there but hidden antiquities is almost totally a culture victory thing.

A couple Great Works of Writing pay for the last policy, so no harm for a tree that one probably opened for other reasons.

EDIT: But I agree with the move because Hidden Sites was nearly useless for CV because it came so late.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Indeed. Hidden antiquities make thematical sense in exploration but are totally useless there. If hidden sites gave more general bonuses for all victories then it could have stayed there but hidden antiquities is almost totally a culture victory thing.

The Louvre could be the aesthetics wonder to be honest instead of Uffizi. In general exploration could use another wonder. Maybe a total conversion of one available in medieval and above era.

Meanwhile the Louvre is available for 1 policy which is not too hard on a culture game.

Yeah I was going more for the thematical bit of it.. although it makes it easier for cultural victory seekers in Aesthetics. Atm the exploration finisher is also a bit underwhelming. More like less necessary maybe, cause if you've taken exploration youll most likely have a bigger and better navy than the AI anyway. Why not give hidden artifacts as a finished to both trees? That way the artifacts are more likely to get used as well.


Why does the great wall require the defending civ to have discovered dynamite
Shouldn't it be the other way round? I know this is a base game feature but I found out about it just yesterday. I waited for dynamite to attack Rammesses but it was pointless after all.

 

[Chum]

Don't forget to fix the faith bought Cataphracts when you push the next version out too.

 

[noto2]

You know what would speed up game turns is the ability to auto-ignore all diplomatic messages by automatically saying "no" to everything. I have the same leader ask me the same thing two turns in a row, like asking for open borders.

Another thing would be the option to automatically renew trade routes to their current city when the 30 turns is up.

Late game, especially a culture or space game where I'm just hitting end turn, most of my time is wasted dealing with trade routes and banal requests by the AI.

Finishing military games is a whole nightmare on its own with the lack of rally points and whatnot, but that would be much more difficult to fix.

 

[meatpardle]

Late game, especially a culture or space game where I'm just hitting end turn, most of my time is wasted dealing with trade routes and banal requests by the AI.

Agree it's a pain, but it isn't really my time that's the problem, it's waiting for my time.

 

[chumchu]

I have a list of current changes but I'm not really working on further change right now. It's short for now, will have to be patient before I really put work into it.

It does not matter if it is short. All of them are good. Quality over quantity.

 

[Acken]

It does not matter if it is short. All of them are good. Quality over quantity.

I also have the following changes on the current drawing board:

-Stock exchange now has only 1 slot
-Factory now has only 1 slot
-Workshop now has 2 slots
-Market now has 2 slots
Note: The purpose of this is to make early GP spawn more of a choice.
The biggest culprit of not enough GE/GM (admitting you want some) is that science is at 2 slots for a long time while these two stay at 1 slot.
Even if I want an engineer I know working a single workshop at T100 won't give me one before the end of renaissance.
Merchants get a faster timing with currency but they are also widely accepted as being inferior.

-Trading posts have been significantly changed:
TP are available at The Wheel
TP give +1 gold at Currency
TP give +1 gold at Economics
Questioning: TP give +1 gold at Guilds
TP can only be built adjacent to a luxury and not adjacent to another trading post
Market, bank and stock exchange give one more gold but the % modifier has been reduced to 15%
Theocracy gives +2 gold to shrine and +10% to temples instead of +1 shrine +20% temple
Big Ben reduces buying costs by 10% instead of 15%
Mercantilism reduces buying costs by 15% instead of 25%
The formula for costs is no longer (P*30)^0.75 but (P*8)^0.88 this makes early prod:gold ratios around 1:4.5 and late game ratios arund 1:3 instead of 1:5 and 1:2.5
In other words, the early stuff cost less money and the late game stuff cost more, the power of cost reduction is also lowered.

I'd like to know your opinion guys.

 

[DeAnno]

I'd like to know your opinion guys.

First some thoughts on your more set-in-stone changes:

Swords to 15: This is a good change, Swords are too OP compared to Horses right now IMO. Lessening the raw strength difference will help Horse strategies compete despite their many problematic disadvantages.

NC no slot, +3/25 instead of slot +30: This seems like a big nerf to me. I think this mod rewards early wide growth enough, punishing the tall NC like this seems sort of like piling on. I would increase the % modifier instead of decrease it if you're going to take the slot away, and I'm not crazy about the flat science.

AI Beliefs: AI should be more likely than it is now to take Tithe, honestly. I know I harped on this before but the AI never taking it sort of centralizes the human player's game.

Speculative changes:

I like the idea of more merchant and engineer slots moving early, it harkens more to the idea of specialized cities which is a good thing. Also encourages generation of GMs which you don't see too often. I would say the Markets needed it more though, Workshops are already pretty good. Maybe you could split the difference and give the extra Engineer slot to a less spammable building like Stone Works? You could even give the merchant slot to Circuses, if you wanted it to be a theme.

I like the idea of Trading Post reform. This version might or might not be good but something has to be done and we can see how it feels in play. I would lean towards giving them the +1 at Guilds too, make them more close to too good so people use them and we get a feel for them.

I don't like the lessening of % bonuses to gold in exchange for flat gold. As I said before I think wide play is good enough, and these sorts of bonuses inhibit specialization of cities.

Big Ben and Merchantilism nerfs are well deserved. Flattening of the exchange rate also seems wise.

 

[noto2]

Can I ask why it is necessary to drastically change trading posts so much?
The only thing I would change about trading posts is being able to build them earlier, giving the player more choices to make. I agree that the purchase discounts need to be nerfed for the late game.
The earlier engineer/merchant slots are a good idea as it gives the player more choice.

 

[Dahebbie]

TP: sounds good, +1 at guilds, yes please
Q: what about non-tp jungle now? Lumbermills could be avaible?
Merchant specialist are still to bad, never use them... 5 gold perhaps?

Thx for all your work Really, this mod makes the game super good!

 

[Acken]

Can I ask why it is necessary to drastically change trading posts so much?
The only thing I would change about trading posts is being able to build them earlier, giving the player more choices to make. I agree that the purchase discounts need to be nerfed for the late game.
The earlier engineer/merchant slots are a good idea as it gives the player more choice.

Because trading posts without +1 science are really not great. Trade posts are mostly ignored now that the +1 science is gone (and before were used only in the end). To compensate I maintain the 2gold for 1 hammer opportunity cost present in most of the mod (merchants being 4G vs enginner 2H, improved luxuries at 2yield + 4 gold vs 4yield etc.). So trade posts get to 2G pretty quickly while farms and mines are 1food and 1 hammer then at guilds its 3G vs 2F (civil service)or 1H and at economics it's 4G vs 2F or 2H (chemistry). The effect of golden age and commerce is still a big question that could make this too high which is why for now there is a restriction in placement.

Also now, even with all the purchase cost modifiers outside of ideology you won't get below a 1:2 hammer:gold ratio for buildings/units so all game long gold should remain worse than hammers (and instead be used as "saved hammers").

Needs a good amount of testing though.

 

[Chum]

Really I think NC is taking a serious beating in this mod. I'm not even sure if it's worth "beelining" anymore, at least not like we do in unmodded.

Tall is definitely taking a big hit in the mod, and that's fine, more cities should equal a better empire, but the NC is starting to slip down below the threshold of what I'd consider an important national wonder to be.

At this point, if you're playing wide, it doesn't make sense at all to build it in your capital unless you have a mountain. Might as well shift the NC permanently away from the capital to another specialist science city. My capitals generally don't have enough citizens to work all the specialist slots until very late in the game now anyway due to nerf of internal trade routes.

 

[Akbarthegreat]

Really I think NC is taking a serious beating in this mod. I'm not even sure if it's worth "beelining" anymore, at least not like we do in unmodded.

Tall is definitely taking a big hit in the mod, and that's fine, more cities should equal a better empire, but the NC is starting to slip down below the threshold of what I'd consider an important national wonder to be.

Seconded.

How about giving the Great War Infantry +25% defence? Or something of the sort, to simulate trench warfare and make them something other than a weaker infantry.

Also would it be possible to give Nareusan's elephants a 33% penalty against gunpowder units? I'm guessing not, since they are classified as melee.

 

[noto2]

Because trading posts without +1 science are really not great. Trade posts are mostly ignored now that the +1 science is gone (and before were used only in the end). To compensate I maintain the 2gold for 1 hammer opportunity cost present in most of the mod (merchants being 4G vs enginner 2H, improved luxuries at 2yield + 4 gold vs 4yield etc.). So trade posts get to 2G pretty quickly while farms and mines are 1food and 1 hammer then at guilds its 3G vs 2F (civil service)or 1H and at economics it's 4G vs 2F or 2H (chemistry). The effect of golden age and commerce is still a big question that could make this too high which is why for now there is a restriction in placement.

Also now, even with all the purchase cost modifiers outside of ideology you won't get below a 1:2 hammer:gold ratio for buildings/units so all game long gold should remain worse than hammers (and instead be used as "saved hammers").

Needs a good amount of testing though.

I still wouldn't want them restricted the way the French UA is restricted... it takes away choice, which is almost never a good thing.

 

[sugerdady87]

Does anyone know where city visible range is in the folder? I want to change it back to 1 instead of 2.

 

[Acken]

You mean the border range visibility for the AI in order to limit worker farming ? It's in the dll

 

[chumchu]

I also have the following changes on the current drawing board:

I'd like to know your opinion guys.

Moving forward merchants and engineer slots is good for balance reasons. This should be a slight benefit to tall play.

Designing the gold parts is tricky because of the lack of a role for gold in the core mechanics. It comes in at a secondary stage as an inefficient but flexible substitute for production (and sometimes culture and diplomacy). Compare that to how it was integrated in previous civ games. That has lead to a sharply declining marginal utility of gold in most strategies and a small number of dedicated purchasing strategies where it is perhaps too good.

I believe that the nerf to purchasing and the buff to trading posts is a move in the right direction. Within the current mechanics your solution is the best I have seen.
Trading posts are currently underwhelming and it is a major issue as the choice between different improvements are almost non-existent. To me the changes to them seem elegant, interesting and balanced. I'm against +1g from guilds,let it be 3g, with extras from commerce and golden age. I neither want them to be superior to luxuries nor them to push the game into purchasing strategies.