Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

[yung.carl.jung]

i'm the exact opposite to be honest. I plant maybe one, maximum two academies. they honestly barely make a difference for lategame bulbs. my first bulb is scientific theory, then plastics. i just grow my cities way more and put less emphasis on specialists since lategame bulb value is everything now, because scientists cannot be safed (or atleast its useless).

that's why wide science is so good now, it's all about maximum beakers. hospitals and med labs (biology) is a tech worth going for imo. sometimes i even delay plastics to get those up. early fertilizer also really pays off. it's weird that now it can be better to reduce your science by not working specialists just so you can pump them out incredibly fast with all those modifiers (+25% garden, +25% rationalism, +25% ideology, +25% national epic et cetera) in the lategame.

it might seem very counterintuitive since that it is the complete opposite of what you should do compared to the unmodded game, but i don't necessarily dislike it. it's just different. the end of the tech tree does seem to go by very slow, even if you have 6+ cities a bulb will probably not net you more than a single lategame technology. i love this for warfare, but it does make science victories much slower. i'm actually kinda surprised that i finished my deity game @237, i think compared to the unmodded game that's like a clean t200 finish.

 

[Acken]

The slow down of late game is in part to make late game growth building relevant so I'm glad it somewhat works.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

yeah that's what i'm saying. it seems so slow because we're used to it going by in just a few turns. the last 3 eras usually only take as long as say renaissance or medieval. lategame warfare to me is the most fun aspect of this game and that's why i love that the tech tree was slowed down.

also culture victories are now on par with science in terms of speed i feel, maybe even faster.. i like how everything is working right now. all we need is a boost to academies probably just doubling or tripling the boost from atomic theory is enough: +4 or +6 instead of +2.

actually +6 seems more accurate, +2 just does foo king nothing for a tech that comes so late. i mean most ppl get 2 or 3 academies max, meaning it grants you a +4 or +6 beakers boost.. at around what, turn 200? that's a joke.

+12 or +18 on the other hand sounds much better imo.

 

[Chum]

Not working scientists until later in the game was something I brought up months ago, but someone made me feel I was wrong in that assumption!

I'll try to not work scientist slots until industrial this weekend and see if that changes anything. If academies are crap and early bulbs are crap there's really nothing else to do but work merchant and engineer slots early I guess. It also gets those spawns out of the way when they're cheap and won't interrupt the late game scientist chain spawns.

 

[Acken]

Ok regarding spy I had forgotten that I had boosted spy survavibility with its level. What Chum was likely to have happen is that the enemy spy leveled up and then it was impossible to kill it with a level 1 spy and it was also impossible to level up because of no kills.

I've removed this mechanic as well as the one boosting resistance with tech numbers.

Note that the original spy mechanic is as follow:
1. Calculate the maximum tech cost of what you can steal: list all techs you can steal, take YOUR maximum cost among that list.

2. Calculate the per turn rate as follow:
CityYield * (1 + 0.2*level) * (1 - citymodifier + policymodifier)
where level = 0 for a level 1 spy.
Note also that the level is affected by influence.

3. Calculate the goal:
MaxTechCost * 1.2

4. Each turn you accumulate the rate and can steal when reaching the goal.

It's pretty easy to see that since my mod makes science come from empire size rather than a powerful capital, it is very slow to steal late game techs. If the AI capital makes 500bpt it would take like 30 turns without defenses to steal something late game with a level 1 spy. Sadly the AI isn't that good in science and its capital is usually lower than that with also spy modifier buildings.

I have made the following changes:
Spy levels and spy modifiers buildings are no longer multiplicative but additive.
The rate is therefore:
CityYield * (1 + 0.2*level - citymodifier + policymodifier)
This means that before a level 3 spy in a police station city had a rate multiplied by 1.4*0.5 = 0.7 while now it is multiplied by 1+0.4-0.5 = 0.9.

You get a discount on the tech cost based on the tech number difference with your target
For every tech that you don't have you get a further discount of 2% to the rate up to a maximum of 20% which is also additive.

Example:
Let's say you want to steal a 10 000 tech cost in a city producing 300bpt with a police station and a spy level 3. Before you would need:
10000*1.2 / (300 * 0.7) = 57 turns
Now if you have a 10 tech difference you will need:
10000*(1.2 - 10*0.02) / (300 * 0.9) = 37 turns

 

[yung.carl.jung]

You get a discount on the tech cost based on the tech number difference with your target
For every tech that you don't have you get a further discount of 2% to the rate up to a maximum of 20% which is also additive.

I think that's a fantastic idea. Way to improve the formula!

 

[Acken]

Note that I noticed an AI problem with the dll previously linked for the bug fix to another player. Since I reduced the GPP rates to compensate for separating GSEM, I forgot to adjust the AI value of GPP to compensate. In that dll version the AI no longer uses specialists.

(this does not concern people playing with the official v5)

 

[Acken]

All right I've put down some work. I have released an experimental version of the mod on the experimental link.

It contains a first try at v6 with the following changes that should make a few people happy:

Spoiler :

Policies:
-Industrial espionage increases tech stealing by 50% instead of 100%

Warfare:
-Cities have 250 health instead of 200
-Captured cities have 65% health instead of 75%

Misc:
-GE, GS, GM no longer increase the counters of each others but GE, GM and GS specialists only give 2 points instead of 3. The first specialist now costs 75.
-Guilds increase gold from trading posts by 1 to preserve for a total of +4G at Economics, staying in line with +2 hammer at chemistry/scientific.
-Caravan food was reverted back to its orignal values
-Spies are no longer more resistant based on level and tech differences
-Spies with levels are now more efficient at stealing cities protected by constabularies and police station
-Spies are more efficient at stealing if there is a big gap in tech numbers

AI:
-The AI should neglect Rationalism less
-Boosted number of units used by AI for defense a bit

Techs:
-Machinery is now a prerequisite of Gunpowder
-Manufactories get +1 production from Chemistry, Physics, Steam Power Combustion and Robotics
-Academies get +2 science from Printing Press, Scientific Theory, Electronics and +4 from Atomic Theory and Telecomunications
-Custom houses get +2 gold from Economics, Refrigeration, Steam Power and Computers

Maps:
-City states now have a choice among 5 luxuries on standard instead of 3
-Less disabled luxuries per map (none on standard size)
-Mount Fuji can now appear on pangeas
-A bit more randomness in luxuries (more randoms, less of those dedicated to a region)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf8miza21uw1cb9/Acken's Minimalistic Balance (v 6).civ5mod?dl=0

 

[Chum]

That's a good solid day of work, Acken.

It makes doing a good solid day of work out in the yard myself that much more enjoyable to come in and check out a new mod!

 

[mejobloggs_]

Not sure if this is a bug with acken's mod but....

I was at 1 happeniness...
A message popped up saying since i was at 20 unhappy, my city revolted over to an AI
Now I'm at 3 unhappy and 1 less city

I can upload savegame if you tell me how (where to upload to?)

 

[Acken]

You can upload on the forum by attaching a file to a post but i really doubt its a bug due to the mod as i never touched this part of the code. Could it be possible you were influenced further between turns which put you in low happiness and a revolution trigfered unlucķily ?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Love the changes to Caravans! I think ITRs took way too hard of a hit, I'm excited to play the mod now that they're back to normal.

Not sure if this is a bug with acken's mod but....

I was at 1 happeniness...
A message popped up saying since i was at 20 unhappy, my city revolted over to an AI
Now I'm at 3 unhappy and 1 less city

I can upload savegame if you tell me how (where to upload to?)

This isn't uncommon at all. I remember my happiness swinging about 20 points every other turn in the lategame due to Ideology unhappiness. Now I don't know why exactly it did, because the AI weren't adopting new Ideologies or changing their Ideology, but it definitely happened. So yeah, to an extent, In can confirm this.

In your case though it might just be an error with the interface, no? The happiness could have just been displayed wrongly.

 

[Acken]

I want to note that the experimental version map generator can be buggy at times and make a map with ressources only near your start. Just make another map.

 

[noto2]

Not working scientists until later in the game was something I brought up months ago, but someone made me feel I was wrong in that assumption!

I'll try to not work scientist slots until industrial this weekend and see if that changes anything. If academies are crap and early bulbs are crap there's really nothing else to do but work merchant and engineer slots early I guess. It also gets those spawns out of the way when they're cheap and won't interrupt the late game scientist chain spawns.

I have been playing this way for a while now. The default city governor works A LOT of specialists and I learned a long time ago that clicking manual specialist control and max food makes a huge difference. Doing that, my 2nd city will hit size 30 in the renaissance, whereas if I leave the default governor managing it, it will be size 20.

Of course I still use specialists but I'm much more picky about when and where. My National Epic city will max them, obviously, but a relatively new city that I'm trying to grow will avoid hiring them.

It's also a matter of asking do I want maximum output now or later? Working as many farms as possible increases my economic output in the long run, but if I'm preparing for a game changing war, for example, I might stop working the farms and start hiring more specialists.

 

[Chum]

I have been playing this way for a while now. The default city governor works A LOT of specialists and I learned a long time ago that clicking manual specialist control and max food makes a huge difference. Doing that, my 2nd city will hit size 30 in the renaissance, whereas if I leave the default governor managing it, it will be size 20.

Of course I still use specialists but I'm much more picky about when and where. My National Epic city will max them, obviously, but a relatively new city that I'm trying to grow will avoid hiring them.

It's also a matter of asking do I want maximum output now or later? Working as many farms as possible increases my economic output in the long run, but if I'm preparing for a game changing war, for example, I might stop working the farms and start hiring more specialists.

We're not talking about the same thing.

 

[noto2]

We're not talking about the same thing.

Oh I see what you meant now. Well version 6 gives more buffs to academies, so perhaps they are closer to being balanced.

In general, slowing down the late game by increasing tech costs will make planting GP more useful. I'd prefer it in terms of game play but I don't know how many people would agree with me. I don't particularly need my games to finish as quickly as possible, where most of the late game buildings are worth the bother, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Acken]

Well the late game techs are already increased by a whooping 40% compared to the base game. Also science sources are overall reduced. On the other hand wide is easier to play and more rewarding with a tech penalty somewhat smaller than base civ5

 

[Dahebbie]

Bug: tundra pantheon dont give faith on forest tiles:-(

V6 looking cool

Thx

 

[beetle]

Bug: tundra pantheon dont give faith on forest tiles

Is that suppose to be a feature of the mod? Dance of the Aurora normally requires that the tundra tile be clear. The limitation makes Tundra even worse, but it does fit with the RP of seeing the sky!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=521450#faithgivingbeliefs

 

[Acken]

Yeah the mod is supposed to remove this constraint