Acken
Deity
I've fixed the bug but it required a DLL change... dumb firaxis. I won't upload another experimental just for that so it will wait v6 release this week end.
Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)
- Thread starter Acken
- Start date
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,715
Yes, I have definitely noticed this. I realized I was finishing a lot more of the game's buildings, and I have more time to catch up in tech coming from behind. It's a great change, in my opinion.
It also means that monster civ that took out a whole continent can't just be ignored while you blast off a space ship, as the AI has more time to put together an invasion force and attack you. Again, a great development.
playshogi
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2001
- Messages
- 1,556
Is the No Civilian Traffic Jams mod included with this mod or is it compatible with this mod? Edit: I just saw your answer in post 1113. I rage quit my last Civ5 (base game) because I was cruising towards my first deity win on Pangea without reloading when I couldn't enter a City-state with my Great merchant for 10 ten consecutive turns to do a trade mission for the gold to upgrade to artillery.
Acken
Deity
That said it's a mod that I have been tempted to include. I am currently working on implementing it as an option to try out. I'll upload the experimental version with it with instructions on how to activate it (it will be off by default in that upload).
It's not a lot of work for me anyway. Just copied the code from PNM.
Edit: Sadly while it works it seems to require a rework of the AI (how does the original mod function on its own ???)... Something I simply no longer have time for. Next version (or experimental) will have an option to activate it through a change in sql file alteredtables.sql but it creates some silliness with AI 6 worker stacks running around so I'd advise against it. But you may like it anyway and the AI still can perform fine. Simply put 1 instead of 0 in the insert and remove the "/*" and "*/" around the insert. https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf8miza21uw1cb9/Acken's Minimalistic Balance (v 6).civ5mod?dl=0
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,715
I tried the no civilian traffic jam mod because I liked the idea in principle, but I found the exact problems you mention, Acken. The AI wasn't programmed to handle it, and performed terribly. I noticed when I conquered AI cities in the renaissance they were still full of undeveloped tiles. This was because the AI wasn't using its workers properly.
Perhaps there is another solution to the problem of City States crowding their territory and blocking GM missions. I honestly can't recall this being a major problem in my games, though. I seem to always be able to do trade missions... I can't even remember if GMs can enter a hex filled by a CS military unit. I think they can't? In any case, I've always made it through.
Perhaps there is another solution to the problem of City States crowding their territory and blocking GM missions. I honestly can't recall this being a major problem in my games, though. I seem to always be able to do trade missions... I can't even remember if GMs can enter a hex filled by a CS military unit. I think they can't? In any case, I've always made it through.
Acken
Deity
City states are in the mod limited to a few units so it may be why youre not seeing an issue.
That is my current solution to limit trafic.
That is my current solution to limit trafic.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
For everyone struggling with DemiGod or looking to up his game, please go ahead and try this map! Save file will be attached at the bottom of this post!
So, yesterday I did a crazy thing. I played a game on quick speed and, because I was so into it, I finished it in a single setting. Played from 6PM to 6AM straight, no pauses, no food
I really wanted to test out the new Rome and the new specialist settings and boy did I love it. This mod is very close to perfection imo. All it needs is a few minor tweaks and, of course, changes to balance out the Civ UAs, UUs, UBs and UIs.
I can't be arsed to do a full write-up, just letting you know that this map is insane.
Also, I think I proved that Tradition and tall playstyle in general is still viable, seeing that I finished on T167 quick speed and, seeing as it was literally 6 in the morning, I would've easily finished 20 or more turns earlier had I payed attention. Sub T150 finish time sounding good to y'all?
I went full Trad into full Piety into Freedom into 2 Rationalism (Sec) into full Aesthetics into full Rat into Commerce. In the end I had so much culture I honestly did not know what to do with my Culture. Should have opened Commerce earlier to get more benefit out of it.
I won't spoil anything about the map but feel free to look at these screenshots:
Download the T0 save file here: http://www112.zippyshare.com/v/HEq7ErVa/file.html
So, yesterday I did a crazy thing. I played a game on quick speed and, because I was so into it, I finished it in a single setting. Played from 6PM to 6AM straight, no pauses, no food
I really wanted to test out the new Rome and the new specialist settings and boy did I love it. This mod is very close to perfection imo. All it needs is a few minor tweaks and, of course, changes to balance out the Civ UAs, UUs, UBs and UIs.
I can't be arsed to do a full write-up, just letting you know that this map is insane.
Also, I think I proved that Tradition and tall playstyle in general is still viable, seeing that I finished on T167 quick speed and, seeing as it was literally 6 in the morning, I would've easily finished 20 or more turns earlier had I payed attention. Sub T150 finish time sounding good to y'all?
I went full Trad into full Piety into Freedom into 2 Rationalism (Sec) into full Aesthetics into full Rat into Commerce. In the end I had so much culture I honestly did not know what to do with my Culture. Should have opened Commerce earlier to get more benefit out of it.
I won't spoil anything about the map but feel free to look at these screenshots:
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Download the T0 save file here: http://www112.zippyshare.com/v/HEq7ErVa/file.html
Acken
Deity
I could always invrease the limit.
consentient
Domination!
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2014
- Messages
- 3,379
YCJ, it seems VERY odd that you have the highest pop in the Renaissance period playing peacefully. What did the AI do differently?
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
Spoiler :
Also you need to remember how the Population formula in demographics works. My capital was 50 pop in the end (check the last screenshot, I fixed it. just a few turns before winning). Having a 20 pop city grow 1 pop gets you way, way more points than having a 10 pop city grow 1 pop. If it was flat population the AI would probably have twice or thrice as much, depending on how many cities they have.
That being said AI capitals were extremely small. I've had Deity games where the capitals AI surpassed 30 pop at T100, (standard speed..). That's insanity. This game their capitals were so sucky that I didn't get a single steal the entire game. No spy catch either. Very frustrating, because I wasn't teach leader until after Public Schools. I don't remember exact numbers of course, but I don't think any AI capitals surpassed 30 pop this entire game. Then again it ended on T167 which is like 210 or 220 on standard speed? I wouldn't know.
This map wasn't touched with IGE btw, if that's what you're implying. I love screwing around with IGE personally, but this map was 100% legit, rolled with Acken's map script as that stack of
Spoiler :
If you want to play this map I'd advise you to build a lot of units early- I went with a quintuple Scout opening, got myself a Warrior and an Archer and still felt lacking somehow. Not one of the Scouts was useless. Every single one got vision promotion and pulled its weight until way in the lategame. I didn't stop scouting until way after T130.
This map is perfect for a violent CV or a SV. I actually wanted to do the former, but then the game ended so early it wasn't necessary. I had already amassed a nice army, such a shame.
Nice to see you around by the way. I hope you'll have a try at Deity, so far there is only one single recorded DomV and that was on epic speed and a water-based map. Afaik not a single person has managed to win a domination victory on Pangea yet!
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
@Acken (sorry for the double post, but they got nothing to do with each other)
I have been posting savefiles a lot recently. A few people took me up on it, a few even messaged me, but afaik no one ended up finishing them. Are you planning to claim one of the CDG maps anytime soon? Because there's only a handful left at this point.
Would you mind me rolling a map with your mod and modscript and proposing it? Or do you want to roll the first one yourself? If that's the case it's completely understandable of course, I don't want to misrepresent you or your mod in any way. I've been wanting to provide a map for a long time, but I honestly cannot be bothered with the unmodded game in any way anymore.
I think I stopped playing the unmodded version after about 1100 hours?.. Something like that. So almost 300 hours has been nothing than playing your mod. I haven't gone back since. I loaded up a couple of the CDG challenges, but was always frustrated with how the AI acted and quit
I have been posting savefiles a lot recently. A few people took me up on it, a few even messaged me, but afaik no one ended up finishing them. Are you planning to claim one of the CDG maps anytime soon? Because there's only a handful left at this point.
Would you mind me rolling a map with your mod and modscript and proposing it? Or do you want to roll the first one yourself? If that's the case it's completely understandable of course, I don't want to misrepresent you or your mod in any way. I've been wanting to provide a map for a long time, but I honestly cannot be bothered with the unmodded game in any way anymore.
I think I stopped playing the unmodded version after about 1100 hours?.. Something like that. So almost 300 hours has been nothing than playing your mod. I haven't gone back since. I loaded up a couple of the CDG challenges, but was always frustrated with how the AI acted and quit
Acken
Deity
Good to know. I have absolutely no problem with someone proposing a good map.
However i also would like you to see if weak ai cities is a fluke or an unintended consequence of the last experimental. Could be the ai focuses too much on specialists and grow slowly.
Finally before making a map please dont do it before a new version for compatibility reasons.
Also I dont really know what you mean by claiming a cdg.
T167 quick is t250 standard on a date for date basis.
However i also would like you to see if weak ai cities is a fluke or an unintended consequence of the last experimental. Could be the ai focuses too much on specialists and grow slowly.
Finally before making a map please dont do it before a new version for compatibility reasons.
Also I dont really know what you mean by claiming a cdg.
T167 quick is t250 standard on a date for date basis.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
@Noto
was it you who said "aesthetics is pretty much needed now"? very sorry if i missatribute things. i just want to say that i think aeshtetics is actually pretty bad now and should get a rework. i think its very shortsighted that it only provides assistance for cultural victories and pretty much nothing else. there are essentialy two way, way good policies and all the other ones suck. the opener in my opinion is too strong. it has such a big impact and can possibly yield you two additional GW and GA, maybe even more, during one game. the +33% culture policy is also insanely strong. the others feels very lackluster.
investing more than those two points into aesthetics is a complete waste unless you are going for a CV. i'd like that to change. i think the tree needs SOME sort of happiness. definitely. piety has it, commerce has it big time, both patronage and exploration have some. if you pick aesthetics right after trad/lib you're screwed with smiles. that's no good.
the same goes for exploration. i think exploration should also provide some sort of benefit if you are not coastal. i love how NQ Mod solves this, i think you are all familiar with it. it allows you to settle cities later, even post t100, that are still good.
in general acken mod allows you to be extremely flexible with settles - you can nab a bunch of early wonders, you can rex like crazy, you can settle really early and reap early benefits.. i feel like acken mod hnestly encourages a step away from the exploration as we know it. i know that acken wants to keep things as close to the base game as possible, but the truth is that no one ever uses freakin exploration unless theyre playing sea conquest on continents..
in NQ Mod however it is quite powerful. it is still more beneficial for coastal empires, but it works for non-coastal, too.
after testing V6 i will make another very long, tedious post about all the changes i think should be implemented and this will probably be its main focus. i want all trees to be usable and none to be useless.
so far with the rework piety went from mediocre to great, all the three starting trees now work perfectly well (i think i proved to some extent that trad is still viable), commerce has been nerfed which was necessary, rationalism is still the best tree but not as overpowered anymore, patronage is decent, but the two odd-ones really bother me.
i think the ideologies are nicely balanced now, too, actually. testing freedom with the new GP mechanics it felt very strong to me.
@Acken
that's good to know, t250 is pretty disappointing then.
yes, AI cities were growing extremely slow in my game. so slow infact that i didn't steal a single tech.. in the entire game. i eclipsed them in research before getting my first steal of (~40 turns for the first steal, with babylon in the game).
something is definitely fishy.
by "claiming cdg" i mean that there is a thread up and people are signing up for the cdg. half of the civs already have someone who claimed them, so in a month or two every civ will be gone.
one more little thing i wanted to mention: is there a reason why we have the exp cap from barbarians enabled? is that a conscious decision or did you not think about that yet? i personally have always hated that.
good player will always abuse barbarians instead of being annoyed by them. often times ill just leave camps intact with 2 archers next to them so i can farm until i get two promos. i don't see why it would be restricted to 2, though. what does everyone else think?
was it you who said "aesthetics is pretty much needed now"? very sorry if i missatribute things. i just want to say that i think aeshtetics is actually pretty bad now and should get a rework. i think its very shortsighted that it only provides assistance for cultural victories and pretty much nothing else. there are essentialy two way, way good policies and all the other ones suck. the opener in my opinion is too strong. it has such a big impact and can possibly yield you two additional GW and GA, maybe even more, during one game. the +33% culture policy is also insanely strong. the others feels very lackluster.
investing more than those two points into aesthetics is a complete waste unless you are going for a CV. i'd like that to change. i think the tree needs SOME sort of happiness. definitely. piety has it, commerce has it big time, both patronage and exploration have some. if you pick aesthetics right after trad/lib you're screwed with smiles. that's no good.
the same goes for exploration. i think exploration should also provide some sort of benefit if you are not coastal. i love how NQ Mod solves this, i think you are all familiar with it. it allows you to settle cities later, even post t100, that are still good.
in general acken mod allows you to be extremely flexible with settles - you can nab a bunch of early wonders, you can rex like crazy, you can settle really early and reap early benefits.. i feel like acken mod hnestly encourages a step away from the exploration as we know it. i know that acken wants to keep things as close to the base game as possible, but the truth is that no one ever uses freakin exploration unless theyre playing sea conquest on continents..
in NQ Mod however it is quite powerful. it is still more beneficial for coastal empires, but it works for non-coastal, too.
after testing V6 i will make another very long, tedious post about all the changes i think should be implemented and this will probably be its main focus. i want all trees to be usable and none to be useless.
so far with the rework piety went from mediocre to great, all the three starting trees now work perfectly well (i think i proved to some extent that trad is still viable), commerce has been nerfed which was necessary, rationalism is still the best tree but not as overpowered anymore, patronage is decent, but the two odd-ones really bother me.
i think the ideologies are nicely balanced now, too, actually. testing freedom with the new GP mechanics it felt very strong to me.
@Acken
that's good to know, t250 is pretty disappointing then.
yes, AI cities were growing extremely slow in my game. so slow infact that i didn't steal a single tech.. in the entire game. i eclipsed them in research before getting my first steal of (~40 turns for the first steal, with babylon in the game).
something is definitely fishy.
by "claiming cdg" i mean that there is a thread up and people are signing up for the cdg. half of the civs already have someone who claimed them, so in a month or two every civ will be gone.
one more little thing i wanted to mention: is there a reason why we have the exp cap from barbarians enabled? is that a conscious decision or did you not think about that yet? i personally have always hated that.
good player will always abuse barbarians instead of being annoyed by them. often times ill just leave camps intact with 2 archers next to them so i can farm until i get two promos. i don't see why it would be restricted to 2, though. what does everyone else think?
Acken
Deity
I just never have bothered thinking about the barb cap. I guess Firaxis idea was to disallow farming xp but I doubt it's really important in the mod. The time to get a logistic archer must be atrocious.
Regarding aesthetics I'm unsure. I am okay for it to be dedicated for CV. Not the most satisfyinng design for sure but it will do for now.
Agree on Exploration. It's always in the back of my head on having to redo it.
I need you to test the new v6 experimental and tell me how the AI feels. I have changed how it gains its food bonus. It used to decrease the food needed which wasn't really useful if the AI was not producing any food. Instead now it requires the same amount of food as the player but the bonus reduces the amount of food consumed. This makes AI cities grow more linearl. I've also made the AI aim for a minmum of +4 food instead of +2.
This being an AI buff, to compensate I've reduced their tech rate slightly and a bit of their production bonus.
Edit:
Changes:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf8miza21uw1cb9/Acken's Minimalistic Balance (v 6).civ5mod?dl=0
Regarding aesthetics I'm unsure. I am okay for it to be dedicated for CV. Not the most satisfyinng design for sure but it will do for now.
Agree on Exploration. It's always in the back of my head on having to redo it.
I need you to test the new v6 experimental and tell me how the AI feels. I have changed how it gains its food bonus. It used to decrease the food needed which wasn't really useful if the AI was not producing any food. Instead now it requires the same amount of food as the player but the bonus reduces the amount of food consumed. This makes AI cities grow more linearl. I've also made the AI aim for a minmum of +4 food instead of +2.
This being an AI buff, to compensate I've reduced their tech rate slightly and a bit of their production bonus.
Edit:
Changes:
Spoiler :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vf8miza21uw1cb9/Acken's Minimalistic Balance (v 6).civ5mod?dl=0
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,715
@ Acken: I would humbly suggest this. Right now it seems CS never have more than 2-3 units, and they fall like dominoes. There's got to be another solution. For starters, we could possibly up the movement speed of merchants, making it easier to move around any blocking units.
@YCJ Yes it was me who said that about Aesthetics. I know it was an exaggeration. It's very difficult to compete with an Aesthetics civ if you don't take it yourself, and you're likely to suffer a happiness penalty as a result, if you adopt a different Ideology. On reflection, though, this might be reasonable, as it gives the culture focused civ an advantage over a science focused civ, and without that advantage I would estimate the science focused civ would be the clear winner. Having to devote more resources to happiness might actually end up being balanced.
I agree that Exploration as it stands is rarely useful. I'm also finding the commerce tree rather weak. Trading post spam has been removed from the game, and the purchase discounts have been nerfed, so commerce doesn't give as much gold.
Acken I saw in your coding that you were toying with the idea of having commerce make all your specialists produce an extra gold. I toyed with that myself by editing your mod to allow for it. The extra gold ended up being similar to what trading post spam used to produce.
I just find commerce a difficult tree to adopt. If I'm going wide I usually manage to grab a religion, and if I do so it's always useful to take Piety, and when I've done that I don't have the culture left over to go into commerce because I need it for my ideology and rationalism. If I'm going for a CV I take Aesthetics, obviously.
I think the only time commerce works is when you take it as your second tree, but I often find that the other choices, such as Piety, Patronage, or Aesthetics, are better. After the second tree, Rationalism is better.
Commerce has some good bonuses towards the end, such as the extra trade route and extra happiness from luxuries, but its earlier policies are rather weak, imo. I'd be more likely to adopt commerce if it gave more serious bonuses early on. Perhaps the extra happiness from luxuries bonus could come earlier in the tree? Also, I think bonuses to trade routes shouldn't be split between exploration and commerce, and should instead be all fit into commerce. Exploration can get something else.
What would be amazing is if somehow the science received from trade routes could be boosted by a commerce policy. I'm not sure how that could be coded, though.
Anyway, maybe I'm the outlier here. Do other people like and use commerce often? Am I the exception?
Carl -
Thanks for doing God's work on putting in the time to test so much of this mod. I can get a game or 2 in every couple of weeks now, so I can't tease out as much detail as you can.
Also, I have always played with the unlimited barb XP mod. My logic is that if they can pillage my crap and mess with my workers on T200, then I should get XP for killing their infantry. I don't farm them, per se, but I don't see a reason for them to stop giving XP.
Thanks for doing God's work on putting in the time to test so much of this mod. I can get a game or 2 in every couple of weeks now, so I can't tease out as much detail as you can.
Also, I have always played with the unlimited barb XP mod. My logic is that if they can pillage my crap and mess with my workers on T200, then I should get XP for killing their infantry. I don't farm them, per se, but I don't see a reason for them to stop giving XP.
2 different commerce policies, each giving 1 extra happiness per lux, with the earlier one potentially combined with another effect.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
@Acken
I will do a quick test run and write up capital population for 50 / 100 turns to see if it changed drastically.
Also since you've now officially confirmed your new series - yes, I will gladly help out. I see you want to start on Immortal difficulty and I think that is a good idea. Deity or even DemiGod would put people off.
If it's possible I would like to claim the Deity map, which I guess would then be the third installment of your series? I feel like I know enough about Deity to roll a map that is both a challenge yet very much winable, both peacefully and by domination.
I will be picking a very strong Civ like Babylon or Poland and a very strong start in order to give incentive. Opponents might be hand-picked so that there is no Korea in the game that launches a Spaceship at turn 200. That's what I have in mind so far - any suggestions?
Beyond that I will gladly help you out with the series in general. If you're ever busy and need someone to roll a map/create the thread for you just message me. However, I will be in Korea starting August and will probably have very little to no time for Civ
I will do a quick test run and write up capital population for 50 / 100 turns to see if it changed drastically.
Also since you've now officially confirmed your new series - yes, I will gladly help out. I see you want to start on Immortal difficulty and I think that is a good idea. Deity or even DemiGod would put people off.
If it's possible I would like to claim the Deity map, which I guess would then be the third installment of your series? I feel like I know enough about Deity to roll a map that is both a challenge yet very much winable, both peacefully and by domination.
I will be picking a very strong Civ like Babylon or Poland and a very strong start in order to give incentive. Opponents might be hand-picked so that there is no Korea in the game that launches a Spaceship at turn 200. That's what I have in mind so far - any suggestions?
Beyond that I will gladly help you out with the series in general. If you're ever busy and need someone to roll a map/create the thread for you just message me. However, I will be in Korea starting August and will probably have very little to no time for Civ
Akbarthegreat
Angel of Junil
I seem to be getting the "choose production" bug (happened on two different game starts). Only Acken's mod is in play, and the error isn't showing for the unmodded game. This was just after I deleted the v4 folder and installed v5. Any ideas as to what could be causing this?
Edit: This post has a screenshot attached
Edit: This post has a screenshot attached
