Yeah, I know coding and I can imagine it's very hard to program.
You've played a lot of CBP game. How does CBP handle the aggressiveness of AI?
Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)
- Thread starter Acken
- Start date
Yeah, I know coding and I can imagine it's very hard to program.
You've played a lot of CBP game. How does CBP handle the aggressiveness of AI?
Acken
Deity
I never found the CBP to be very agressive. It also has a tendency to never go very far beyond its initial area making it games less dynamic which I don't like.
At least when I played it so it may have changed a lot (I didn't play a lot of cbp).
Not for now.
At least when I played it so it may have changed a lot (I didn't play a lot of cbp).
Not for now.
How about making an option so that players can choose the aggressiveness of AI. Possibly less aggressive like what CBP feels like and more aggressive like the current state of this mod.
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
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- 1,715
I've gotten a pike on like T20. It's simple. Your warrior hits a ruin and turns into a spear, then hits another ruin and turns into a pike. It happens, so if you see the AI with a T70 pike it's not evidence the game is broken.
I just bought a new gaming rig, waiting for it to be shipped. First time I will have a high-end computer in my life, I'm very excited, I should be able to play anything on max settings. Now I'm thinking about what to play. Acken, would you say Civ6 is at least enjoyable right now, or should I wait a bit? I usually wait on Civ games. I bought 4 just before BTS came out, and I bought 5 after BNW came out. I think I bought 3 just before Conquests, so I've never played a Civ game in its vanilla form. If not Civ, what other good strategy games could you recommend?
Oh, and on topic, I just played a demi-god Babylon Acken's mod game, and lost, and tried again, and lost. No matter what I do I still fall behind in science, even with Babylon, and rushing libraries/NC and bee-lining to universities. This isn't my playstyle. I prefer playing Celts going wide, or Indonesia, but I figured a 4 city Tradition Babylon game would at least allow me to be the tech leader for some of the game. Nope. Do I just suck at Tradition, or is getting ahead of the AI in tech before the industrial era just not a realistic goal?
I just bought a new gaming rig, waiting for it to be shipped. First time I will have a high-end computer in my life, I'm very excited, I should be able to play anything on max settings. Now I'm thinking about what to play. Acken, would you say Civ6 is at least enjoyable right now, or should I wait a bit? I usually wait on Civ games. I bought 4 just before BTS came out, and I bought 5 after BNW came out. I think I bought 3 just before Conquests, so I've never played a Civ game in its vanilla form. If not Civ, what other good strategy games could you recommend?
Oh, and on topic, I just played a demi-god Babylon Acken's mod game, and lost, and tried again, and lost. No matter what I do I still fall behind in science, even with Babylon, and rushing libraries/NC and bee-lining to universities. This isn't my playstyle. I prefer playing Celts going wide, or Indonesia, but I figured a 4 city Tradition Babylon game would at least allow me to be the tech leader for some of the game. Nope. Do I just suck at Tradition, or is getting ahead of the AI in tech before the industrial era just not a realistic goal?
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I think Civ 6 is definitely "enjoyable", it has potential to be a better game than Civ 5 imo. The only issue is that it is literaly impossible to lose if you life through the first and second Deity onslaught which kind of hampers the fun. If you want to try getting the most impressive spaceship victories like I am doing right now it's certainly fun. Highly imbalanced fun, but fun.
Since war is almost inevitable in this mod, I feel like science victory is really really hard. I had the discussion with Acken and Carl in my previous posts and I still has the concern. So I asked Acken if he can do a defensive science victory let's play on Demigod in his let's play thread. He hasn't replied to me yet.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
Science is by far the easiest VC in this mod. Culture is so much harder because the AI is even stronger than in the base game and Diplo is literally impossible unless you liberate all the CS, at that point you might aswell go for Dom.
In general DomV and SV are the most relevant win cons and science is 100% reliable. Domination is possible, but due to AI production, better tech and higher city size you often end up in a stalemate and everytime you're making progress the AI gets another key tech before you do.
Acken has a pretty cool CV up on his YouTube channel, played on an older version of this mod on DemiGod difficulty:
There's also the Rome game from a recent challenge but it's unfinished. There you can see how to deal with early aggression on DemiGod.
I'd advise you to try a 5 city or even 6 city Tradition empire. Remember, you'll have to devote Hammers to units so having more total hammers is actually really useful. Also due to the mechanic changes the 5th and 6th city no longer drag you down in terms of development. They also add a lot of lategame beakers, which means more powerful bulbs.
Great Scientists have been changed significantly. Unless you can increase your lategame science output by a large amount you will have way slower finishing times. It is normal that the AI outtechs you, it is even beneficial.
I recommend investing a lot in Espionage, so that means letting go of city states and checking the spy screen every now and then to see how fast you are getting steals. Read up on the mechanics of stealing, how it is calculated. It's intricate and complicated.
Basically I managed to win a DemiGod science-dom game with Autocracy, just by stealing techs from the leaders every two or three turns until I got nuclear bombs.
In general DomV and SV are the most relevant win cons and science is 100% reliable. Domination is possible, but due to AI production, better tech and higher city size you often end up in a stalemate and everytime you're making progress the AI gets another key tech before you do.
Acken has a pretty cool CV up on his YouTube channel, played on an older version of this mod on DemiGod difficulty:
There's also the Rome game from a recent challenge but it's unfinished. There you can see how to deal with early aggression on DemiGod.
I'd advise you to try a 5 city or even 6 city Tradition empire. Remember, you'll have to devote Hammers to units so having more total hammers is actually really useful. Also due to the mechanic changes the 5th and 6th city no longer drag you down in terms of development. They also add a lot of lategame beakers, which means more powerful bulbs.
Great Scientists have been changed significantly. Unless you can increase your lategame science output by a large amount you will have way slower finishing times. It is normal that the AI outtechs you, it is even beneficial.
I recommend investing a lot in Espionage, so that means letting go of city states and checking the spy screen every now and then to see how fast you are getting steals. Read up on the mechanics of stealing, how it is calculated. It's intricate and complicated.
Basically I managed to win a DemiGod science-dom game with Autocracy, just by stealing techs from the leaders every two or three turns until I got nuclear bombs.
I watched both the videos you mentioned. They both involve DoW on an AI early on (China and Persia). That's why I was asking about a defensive SV LP.
Acken
Deity
Verify its the right unit name. Unique units often have the civ name in the name.
phryxolydian
Warlord
Huh? This only in the mod, I assume? It's never happened to me in 800+ hrs of playing so, naturally, I thought units who got an upgrade ruin couldn't get a second one.
Acken
Deity
It can happen in the base game. But the mod has a bit more ruin making it somewhat more likely.
noto2
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 1,715
Well... I get that. I can win demigod going wide, like with Rome or the Celts, or just bonking heads with the Assyrians. But in wide games like that you fall behind in science and have to play from behind. I was hoping I could play Babylon and do things differently, and actually build some wonders for once instead of just taking them by force. What's the point of playing Babylon if I still have to play from behind? What I'm saying is, is it even possible to be the tech leader for most of the game on demi-god? Obviously I know people beat deity, but do they always do so lagging in science? Is it possible to be the tech leader at high difficulty? Am I trying to do something that's just not feasible?
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I hardbuilt probably like 10+ wonders in my Deity game, some in exapds, and got ~20 wonders in total without any conquest. You will always be behind because the AI is using their land to their advantage. 10 cities will always outgrow 4 cities and that's the way it should be. Just my opinion.
I never managed to get tech lead on Deity, sometimes on DemiGod tho with wide Korea, wide Shoshone or wide Maya.
I never managed to get tech lead on Deity, sometimes on DemiGod tho with wide Korea, wide Shoshone or wide Maya.
I still don't know how yo defend. This is Demigod standard speed turn 77. Isn't this crazy? He was friendly to me before declaring war on me. How am I supposed to build an army that can defend such a warmonger before turn 77? Can you give me any advise? I have autosaves so I can go back.
Acken
Deity
That's a harsh one indeed. Honestly you won't win all demigod games. I sometimes get caught with my pants down. Overall I have tried to make the early game a bit less volatile in the last updates but more may be required or going further with less AI prod bonuses.
However, in that case earlier and more swords may work and placing them in advance to block and avoid getting surrounded. The AI still has to deal with 1UPT after all.
However, in that case earlier and more swords may work and placing them in advance to block and avoid getting surrounded. The AI still has to deal with 1UPT after all.
Actually, I just went back 15 turns and built an army of swordsman and declared war on Indonenia instead. Surprisingly, I won the war and it was great fun.
However, I feel like I should always go to war early on cause I'll have to build an army anyways for defense and why not just attack my neighbour and get benefit from it? Otherwise I would waste my money in maintainence.
This means that a no war early game is nonsense. It leaves war the only option.
However, I feel like I should always go to war early on cause I'll have to build an army anyways for defense and why not just attack my neighbour and get benefit from it? Otherwise I would waste my money in maintainence.
This means that a no war early game is nonsense. It leaves war the only option.
Acken
Deity
Yes. One of the goal of the mod is to make war a mechanic that you cannot ignore.
I never understood why a warmonger cannot ignore science and culture but somehow you can play peacefully and ignore such a core mechanic of the game.
Now it's rather subjective but I preffer this approach that forces you to use all your tools.
I never understood why a warmonger cannot ignore science and culture but somehow you can play peacefully and ignore such a core mechanic of the game.
Now it's rather subjective but I preffer this approach that forces you to use all your tools.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I think in the case of your screenshot it is impossible to defend. Me personally I think the #1 thing you have to take into account is how the AI actually works.
This is very complicated and I won't explain everything, if you go back to my Deity write-up you will see a lot of details there, like for example using religious beliefs to stop the AI from declaring et cetera, but I will just give you the basics:
Depending on AI Combat strength, let's call it (A), your combat strength, let's call it (B) and Diplomatic relations and external factors such as trade routes and AI personality the AI (C) will value whether or not it is worth to DOW you. This takes place every single turn.
So the best defense is to upgrade your combat strength (B). You don't actually build units to defend with (Archers), you build units to stop the AI from declaring on you: Spearmen. Spearmen have higher melee combat strength and therefore improve your defense rating almost twice as much as Archers do, iirc. You should also try your best to stay friendly as send TR to the AI to control (C) to the best of your ability.
Some things you can do: Save all your GPT for a bribe. Once the bribed AI takes a city, even better a capital, you instantly denounce. If the AI follows you (this is called chain-denounce) you will get a Diplo boost with every single AI that denounced. This is how you form allies with even the most extreme warmongers. An ally won't save you, but is less likely to declare. Once you are at Crossbow or Artillery tech you will most likely be able to actually defend an AI attack. So in that situation your combat strength (B) is not as important anymore and you prioritize ranged over melee units for defense in case of war.
I have managed situations like yours. I successfully defended against armies of similiar size. With an aggro neighbour you know for a fact he will DOW you (Zulu, Assyria, Aztec, Huns, Mongols..). So all you do the entire game is prepare for defense. Once you defended successfully just once, the chance that you will have problems defending on subsequent attacks are very, very low, because the human player managed units, positioning and promotions that much better than the AI.
The problem is not to defend against huge armies like that; It is to defend and not have an irrelevant economy. In a game like yours maybe by some miracle you could defend against the attack, but the war would force you to invest in nothing but units, meaning you'd be irrelevant and broke after.
This is why I value the strategy of preventing wars in the early game so highly. In the mid to lategame war, even defensive war, can be beneficial for you. I have gotten many Great Prophets for Holy Sites, Trade Route pillages, Tile pillages, Workers and other advantage from defensive wars.
There are so many other things to consider... City Placement, early aggression to cripple all your neighbors, boni like Defender of Faith or certain Social Policies that up your (B), using GG to create choke points which the AI cannot handle..
In every game there is something you can do better. Instead of being frustrated and calling for a nerf, just be happy you actually have a challenge! Because as of right now, neither Civ 5 nor Civ 6 Deity are a challenge at all.. For me anyway. And for a lot of players much better than myself. Hope this write-up helped!
This is very complicated and I won't explain everything, if you go back to my Deity write-up you will see a lot of details there, like for example using religious beliefs to stop the AI from declaring et cetera, but I will just give you the basics:
Depending on AI Combat strength, let's call it (A), your combat strength, let's call it (B) and Diplomatic relations and external factors such as trade routes and AI personality the AI (C) will value whether or not it is worth to DOW you. This takes place every single turn.
So the best defense is to upgrade your combat strength (B). You don't actually build units to defend with (Archers), you build units to stop the AI from declaring on you: Spearmen. Spearmen have higher melee combat strength and therefore improve your defense rating almost twice as much as Archers do, iirc. You should also try your best to stay friendly as send TR to the AI to control (C) to the best of your ability.
Some things you can do: Save all your GPT for a bribe. Once the bribed AI takes a city, even better a capital, you instantly denounce. If the AI follows you (this is called chain-denounce) you will get a Diplo boost with every single AI that denounced. This is how you form allies with even the most extreme warmongers. An ally won't save you, but is less likely to declare. Once you are at Crossbow or Artillery tech you will most likely be able to actually defend an AI attack. So in that situation your combat strength (B) is not as important anymore and you prioritize ranged over melee units for defense in case of war.
I have managed situations like yours. I successfully defended against armies of similiar size. With an aggro neighbour you know for a fact he will DOW you (Zulu, Assyria, Aztec, Huns, Mongols..). So all you do the entire game is prepare for defense. Once you defended successfully just once, the chance that you will have problems defending on subsequent attacks are very, very low, because the human player managed units, positioning and promotions that much better than the AI.
The problem is not to defend against huge armies like that; It is to defend and not have an irrelevant economy. In a game like yours maybe by some miracle you could defend against the attack, but the war would force you to invest in nothing but units, meaning you'd be irrelevant and broke after.
This is why I value the strategy of preventing wars in the early game so highly. In the mid to lategame war, even defensive war, can be beneficial for you. I have gotten many Great Prophets for Holy Sites, Trade Route pillages, Tile pillages, Workers and other advantage from defensive wars.
There are so many other things to consider... City Placement, early aggression to cripple all your neighbors, boni like Defender of Faith or certain Social Policies that up your (B), using GG to create choke points which the AI cannot handle..
In every game there is something you can do better. Instead of being frustrated and calling for a nerf, just be happy you actually have a challenge! Because as of right now, neither Civ 5 nor Civ 6 Deity are a challenge at all.. For me anyway. And for a lot of players much better than myself. Hope this write-up helped!
Thank you for your advise. I was not calling for a nerf. I like challenge as well and that's why I was looking for mods. I just want to discuss the game with you and learn stuff.
I rolled back 15 turns and built an army. The game is going on pretty well at the moment. You can see science, money, diplo are all going well. Yeah, you are right. It is pretty exciting.
However, I have another problem taking the city. Whenever my composite bowman or catapult go into two tiles from the city, they can one shoot (sometimes almost) my ranged units. In the vanilla game, the enemy city always attacks wounded melee units first. I seems the ai is smarter now. How can I take cities with siege units in this mod? Thanks.
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