Active Research Discussion

[CaiusDrewart]

What do people think of this system? The idea seems to be that techs will research 50% faster if you have met a certain prerequisite. 50% is a lot! In the Polygon article the designers gave the example of building a quarry to speed up Masonry research, and finding sea tiles and building ships to speed up naval techs.

Now, this system has some logic to it. It makes sense that a civ by the coast should figure out how to build boats more easily than a landlocked civ. On the other hand, I worry that this mechanic will reinforce already obvious decisions. If you started on the coast, you were probably going to go for naval techs soon anyway; now that they're way cheaper (and presumably other parts of the tech tree are not), that's an even easier call.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I think it is a very good addition, it may help wide empires a bit in tech (if they still have more expensive tech) and do alot to encourage exploration. It sound much like they don't want you to always use the same tech path, they want you to develop in a sensible way like a civilization would do historically.

 

[damnyankees]

Sounds like a great addition. It seems like they took the kernel of idea that they had in Civ V, where having a certain resource gave you special bonuses in other parts of the game (e.g. marble increases wonder production), and sort of universalized it. I think that's awesome. The challenge is making it balanced.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I like that it ties your progress through the tech tree to your location on the map. It makes sense that plains-dwelling people develop horseback riding before a people on an island. If there is a start bias, it will contribute more to the civs' flavors.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I wonder how the tech tree will look, it would be nice to see the possibilities.

 

[Frank Sobotka]

What do people think of this system? The idea seems to be that techs will research 50% faster if you have met a certain prerequisite. 50% is a lot! In the Polygon article the designers gave the example of building a quarry to speed up Masonry research, and finding sea tiles and building ships to speed up naval techs.

Now, this system has some logic to it. It makes sense that a civ by the coast should figure out how to build boats more easily than a landlocked civ. On the other hand, I worry that this mechanic will reinforce already obvious decisions. If you started on the coast, you were probably going to go for naval techs soon anyway; now that they're way cheaper (and presumably other parts of the tech tree are not), that's an even easier call.

Should timber resource help speed the ship building process, and speed up your technological research for ship building techs, instead of just being right next to the coast with a possible fish resource? How can you go on with the immersion if you are on a coast but not surrounded by trees? Like a desert terrain.

 

[Frank Sobotka]

I like that it ties your progress through the tech tree to your location on the map. It makes sense that plains-dwelling people develop horseback riding before a people on an island. If there is a start bias, it will contribute more to the civs' flavors.

Well I hope we will get a better advanced setup for the world builder than Civ 5. So we can have a lot of options to tick on, like start bias and how you want every civilizations to start in a particular way.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

It does sound like this system will make each start play extremely differently depending on what resources and terrain types you have around--something that I think was not the case, or not as much the case as it should've been, in Civ V. That's nice.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

It does sound like this system will make each start play extremely differently depending on what resources and terrain types you have around--something that I think was not the case, or not as much the case as it should've been, in Civ V. That's nice.

Yes it is one of those things Civilization V, needed. That game is just way to much about build orders in my opinion which both remove fun and strategy.

 

[UWHabs]

I think I remember posting something like this in the suggestions forum before. Obviously has to be balanced, but it never made sense that a completely landlocked power would be able to go and research Sailing just as easily as a coastal civ.

Although the one thing I wonder is how exactly it will work. I would guess that basically each tech might have a "lead" to the next one? So maybe you can build a fishing vessel right from the start, and once you build that, that gives you your bonus for sailing. Then sailing lets you build a trireme, which would give you a bonus towards the next water tech (Optics?)?

 

[CaiusDrewart]

Yes it is one of those things Civilization V, needed. That game is just way to much about build orders in my opinion which both remove fun and strategy.

Yes. I think Civ IV was much better in this regard. In that game, obtaining some food and research quickly was paramount--but the techs needed to do so varied widely based on your terrain (to get your research going some starts demanded early Writing, some cottages, some The Great Lighthouse, etc). But in Civ V, this was much less the case. Food is less important because tile yields are toned down and everyone starts with Agriculture anyway. As for science, the only way to get early science in Civ V is to go Writing (at least until they added trade routes).

It sounds like Civ VI might be more like Civ IV, with a huge amount of viable opening tech paths, and very different strategies being optimal depending on your opening terrain.

Speaking of, I hope Civ VI will return to Civ IV's system of different Civs starting with different techs. A little thing, but it added a huge amount of strategy.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I doubt you will start with different tech now with this system basically do this for you. Maybe you don't even start with farming anymore and it could develop faster for river based civs.

 

[Ryika]

I think anything that moves us away from the static tech tree of Civ5 is a good thing. Hopefully the effects aren't -too- restrictive though.

 

[Frank Sobotka]

I think I remember posting something like this in the suggestions forum before. Obviously has to be balanced, but it never made sense that a completely landlocked power would be able to go and research Sailing just as easily as a coastal civ.

Although the one thing I wonder is how exactly it will work. I would guess that basically each tech might have a "lead" to the next one? So maybe you can build a fishing vessel right from the start, and once you build that, that gives you your bonus for sailing. Then sailing lets you build a trireme, which would give you a bonus towards the next water tech (Optics?)?

But why ought only a fishing vessel be quicker to build for a civilization just because they are next to an ocean? If that logic goes, then you have to come up with an idea for what advantages can a landlock civilization take in place of sailing, since they can't build ships or research as fast on shipbuilding than other civilizations starting on the coast.

I am personally for resource-driven mechanism that forces any Civilization to be what they are by what they currently have. If you have a lot of trees, and are placed near an ocean, then it makes sense that you are going to do well in ship building.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

But why ought only a fishing vessel be quicker to build for a civilization just because they are next to an ocean? If that logic goes, then you have to come up with an idea for what advantages can a landlock civilization take in place of sailing, since they can't build ships or research as fast on shipbuilding than other civilizations starting on the coast.

Farms

 

[Frank Sobotka]

Farms

Farms? How can you farm without wheat when there isn't any wheat resource on that given tile slot? You missed the part where I said "resource-driven mechanism." I was stressing on the fact that the game would work better in this way. Should be applied to all tiles. Giving us a variety of resources in which we can use. Rice/grassland tile= rice farms; fish/ocean tile = fish farms; and etc.

 

[UWHabs]

I would expect that the actual ship building cost won't change, but the research times will be different.

Talking early era and the civ 5 tech tree:
-If you are coastal/build a fishing vessel, then you research sailing/optics faster
-if you start near plains, then you develop animal husbandry faster. Having a horse pasture lets you research trapping and horseback riding faster
-Access to stone or marble lets you research masonry faster
-access to hills lets you research mining faster
-etc...

Now, the one change that I see is in the article I read, it mentioned having stone and building a quarry would let you research masonry faster, so perhaps they're separating the tile/improvement from the uses. So you would essentially have to discover iron, mine it, and work it, to get the bonus for iron working. So it might be like Animal Husbandry shows you horses and lets you build pastures, but you need to build the pasture to get the bonus for horseback riding.

I doubt they go to a system that forces even more resources for units, so if you have no forests you can't build ships, for example. I don't imagine it will change too much from 5 where some units may require resources, but the majority of the basic units won't. But I think that's a separate topic not related to the research aspect.

 

[ehecatzin]

I dont know if it has been mentioned yet, but maybe what kind of military you build and HOW you use it could lead to bonus points to certain technologies? for example:

-building a lot of archers and succesfuly defend your cities could get you boost to turtling techs.
-building siege and taking cities boosting your siege tech.
-using cavalry to pillage leading to boosts in movility.

Heck you could even have technologies that are only unlockable through achieving certain goals with your amies.

 

[Frank Sobotka]

I would expect that the actual ship building cost won't change, but the research times will be different.

Talking early era and the civ 5 tech tree:
-If you are coastal/build a fishing vessel, then you research sailing/optics faster
-if you start near plains, then you develop animal husbandry faster. Having a horse pasture lets you research trapping and horseback riding faster
-Access to stone or marble lets you research masonry faster
-access to hills lets you research mining faster
-etc...

Now, the one change that I see is in the article I read, it mentioned having stone and building a quarry would let you research masonry faster, so perhaps they're separating the tile/improvement from the uses. So you would essentially have to discover iron, mine it, and work it, to get the bonus for iron working. So it might be like Animal Husbandry shows you horses and lets you build pastures, but you need to build the pasture to get the bonus for horseback riding.

I doubt they go to a system that forces even more resources for units, so if you have no forests you can't build ships, for example. I don't imagine it will change too much from 5 where some units may require resources, but the majority of the basic units won't. But I think that's a separate topic not related to the research aspect.

That's the difference between me and you. I prefer the game having strict rules for what you can build and what you can do with what you currently have. Placing such emphasis on resources should be what Civilization is all about. The Egyptians wouldn't be the Egyptians we all know about if they were placed somewhere in the Hindu Kush region. I would have the game setup this way and place rules for the world builder to properly place civilizations like Egypt on rivers. And have an option to turn it off if you want a more random game, where Egypt may be placed somewhere in the tundra...

 

[civvver]

I don't really care what they do with bonuses, the issue with 5 isn't the way research is conducting (although tying it to population has it's problems. I liked commerce better). The main issue is the tech tree being completely inflexible. In civ4 you could beeline stuff, trade it around, backfill and slingshot. Every strategy had tradeoffs. Civ5 it's like you can't go more than 1 or 2 levels deep without getting everything prior cus everything's a prereq and the tree just isn't that big either.