Actual Triangle Trade [ACCEPTED]

[raystuttgart]

So those were just ideas what possible risks could be in triangle trade.

Please understand:

Hijacking a feature thread of somebody else with your own feature ideas is not necessarily polite.
If you want to talk about your own feature ideas, simply create threads of your own.

I need to clarify and explain my feature concept and ideas in this thread to figure out if team and community want it.
It will just get messy if I also need to explain and clarify your ideas in parallel in the same thread.
(Effort, gameplay impact, technical feasibility, risk, performance, AI ...)

 

[modmod]

@modmod:

My complete concept for this is done.
Thanks for your input, but I do not need any more ideas.

I am not interested to dicuss feature ideas in this thread that are not part of this concept.
If you have feature ideas of your own, please create separate threads.

Thus I am trying to come up with things that do this:

• adding a little risk
• adding a little surprise
• adding a little flavour
• adding some restrictions
• figure out good compensation for AI

I feel it has potential but I simply want to make this concept better.
(Then I have no issue anymore in implementing it.)

So then which?

Sorry but not understand what is hijacking on that, when you asked in previous post for possible solutions in matters (yes in your concept), and I share some ideas about them.
?

 

[raystuttgart]

So then which?

This here:

Ok, finished my game design concept and I am really happy with it.
...
All 7 parts of the concept have now been integrated in the start post of this thread.

As I also wrote here:

My complete concept for this is done.
Thanks for your input, but I do not need any more ideas.

Edit:

Still looking for feedback on the current concept to figure out if team and community want to have it.
Like always it is your choice.

 

[modmod]

Let be it.

Part 5/ part 7 still not clear.

If answering (ideas) to questions (possible problems) is not welcome, then ok. No need to discussion.
Yet if all done/ no other input welcome then more simple just to close the topic (disable comments).

Hopefully the possibility remains to disable/ expand some parts, otherwise the "use it or not" remains the only option.

 

[raystuttgart]

Part 5/ part 7 still not clear.

About Part 5:

What more information do you need?

• Just like we already now have "Europe Trade Quests", I might configure "Africa Trade Quests".
  
• Additionally I will implement new additions for Python Quests in Africa. (Slaves, Slave Ships, Price increases / decrease, ...)

To discuss into all the tiny details of every single Python Events / Python Quests I will or might implement is not essential.
This is really so little effort and has so little impact for gameplay that any further discussion just wastes our time.

This is mostly about flavour and probably several team members will add their own Quests and Évents, once I implemented the necessary new capabilities.
E.g. when I implemented the "Europe Trade Quests" (Python System Enhancement) almost all Quests and Events were implemented by @Raubwuerger.

How should I know now which Events and Quests team members and supporters want to implement once I finish the new Python System Enhancements?
For a decision about this concept, there is no need to discuss it now. Team members and supporters will later create whatever they like with it.

Summary:

I will create the Python Event Sytem and also create some nice atmospheric examples to be used as blueprints by others.
Then I give it to team and supporters and let them create some events of their liking if they are interested.

----

About Part 7:

AI compensation

Is it really necessary to know all the tiny details of code that we plan to write?
My game concept is fixed but my technical concept may still change.

All that is necessary to know for community considering AI right now:
(The rest we modders will clarify internally in our technical discussions.)

• AI will not be able to really use this feature. It is too difficult to teach it.
• However, I will make sure that it is not disadvantaged too much by creating "compensations" (AI cheats)

----

Summary:

I am simply trying to actually get a decision if we are supposed to implement this for community and team or not.
Everything else does not matter right now, because we modders will change it anyways a dozen of times once we implement and test this in our development branch.

• All the tiny things like specific Events and Quests we do not need to know, because we trust the team members and supporters that they will put the System to good use.
  
• All the tiny things like balancing and so on is not necessary to know right now, because we will adjust and balance in test phase anyways.
• ...

This is simply about actually creating something that will later be finetuned during development and test in our internal development.
Discussing all the 1000 details right now will not help anybody but simply waste our time ...

----

You should have all information you need to decide "Yes" or "No".
Everything else will simply waste time because as I tried to explain the tiny details will change anyways.

Otherwise simply have some trust in the modders creating this mod.

----

If answering (ideas) to questions (possible problems) is not welcome, then ok.

For this concept I would like to now get a decision (from team and community) or identify weaknesses I missed.
At some point we modders need to stop wild brainstorming and start to actually make a decision and then work.

Simply create a separate thread for your new ideas.
(In this thread it will really not help me and make a decision more difficult.)

 

[XSamatan]

I like how this progressed this discussion from a small scope to a large concept that will enrich playing experience in a region most players do not use/notice!

Things like this make RAR/WtP a fun experience to play
(I know this feature won't come for some time - but still, very nice concept!)

 

[raystuttgart]

Things like this make RAR/WtP a fun experience to play

Thanks in the name of the team.

I know this feature won't come for some time - but still, very nice concept!

Actually this is for me one of the most likely candidates to be implemented once we published "river_merge".

1. The design concept is very clear to me. Design patterns are mostly known
2. It does not need endless graphics, texts, XML config for content (e.g. like we would have for Techs / Promotions)
3. Several parts of it can be implemented independently and step by step, so it is not a "big bang" feature.
4. Even if we do not finish all of it in one release, it will not block us from testing, publishing and playing.

But we will need to see ...

 

[modmod]

To discuss into all the tiny details

No not about tiny details, like: concrete quests/ numbers/ whatever, rather: "what it makes possible" (when that part of the concept implemented) a bit more from that.

To end up something like this:

Many things you suggest are not even technically possible with current mod capabilities:

Embarassing.
So exactly that is interesting in any concept/ feature: what (extra) possibilities does it carry.

Like:

How should I know now which Events and Quests team members and supporters want to implement once I finish the new Python System Enhancements?

Some from that what possible to implement (with new feature), or some example what is sure not because of limitations. Not details from actual (technical) plans.

With not knowing that - time wasted on (ideas/ solution brainstorming): that is not possible.
Or can call it: useless attempt to help.

---

About overall: answer is still strong yes for the overall conception.

But for the part of AI cheat/ compensation:
When it get released please include a description: how that can be disabled.

 

[raystuttgart]

About overall: answer is still strong yes for the overall conception.

Perfect.
The important thing is that you got a feeling for the gameplay concept.

Discussing detailled technical concepts would really not help here in the public forum because dicussion would get too chaotic.
(This happens internally between the modders actually working on it because experience has shown that everything else wastes too much time.)

The rest you will simply see, once you get the fully implemented feature(s) once we publish them.
Simply have some patience and a little bit of trust in us modders.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

It sounds great conceptionally.
(Now I also understand.)

It just feels strange to me to call "Africa Screen" a "Europe Screen Type".

(yes, I know that that map would be long after the games timeline and that during a game of colonizations timeline colonization in Africa rarely went beyond the coast.

It is like calling a "German" an "Almost French Type" ...

Actually I live in what had been for 15 years a french departement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Bank_of_the_Rhine

and if we are going back to Charlemagne then germans and french are all frankish brothers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francia#/media/File:Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-en.svg

What if we call them more neutral?
"Foreign Trade Screen Types"
(Or something else.)

Swiss trade routes. Completely neutral.

Hey, you call camouflaged units "invisible". You can do it!

Edit: Regarding the Triangle Trade - yes, it had been an important part of history and yes, a lot of riches were earned that way until the British changed from slavetrading drugdealers to abolish the international slavetrade.

However ingame I have a problem with that:
There are ships off-map that will sail, load, earn money - all beyond the reach of natural disasters, sea monsters, pirates or enemy warships in a war.

Then those trade was regulated not by the colonies, but by the european states. First Spain regulated what ships were allowed to trade, later others:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiento_de_Negros
But we are not playing Spain or England - we are first playing the viceroyalties in the New World and later the rebellious colonies. But not the european homeland - that is the King´s role.

I would be content with what already is - expanding on the Triangle Trade would be more historical, give more options to make a profit, but take away from having the colonies in the Americas in the center.

 

[Schmiddie]

but take away from having the colonies in the Americas in the center.

But this is not a worldwide mod, it is exclusively about the colonies in America....

 

[raystuttgart]

Ok, seems this is accepted.
(Team consensed and community majority.)

 

[raystuttgart]

Just bumping "ACCEPTED" old concepts so they get further up in the queue again.

 

[raystuttgart]

This here is obsolete / implemented already.
(It already made it to branch "Plains".)

---> I removed it from the first post.

Spoiler :

Part 4:
Cargo Hold System Expansion

Ships will get 3 new XML tags in XML to configure their Cargol Hold.
(How they can use their Cargo Slots.)

• iMaxCargoSlotsForSlaves <-- Will also check Criminals
• iMaxCargoSlotsForColonists <-- More or less any Colonist that is unarmed
• iMaxCargoSlotsForCombatUnits <--- Will also check Professions

1. This will allow some interesting and more diverse balancing of Ships.
2. Maybe it will even make it interesting to add new Ships e.g. Slave Ship.

Part 5:
Enhancing Python Event System for Africa

• Just like we already now have "Europe Trade Quests", I might configure "Africa Trade Quests".
• Additionally I will implement new additions for Python Quests in Africa. (Slaves, Slave Ships, Price increases / decrease, ...)

Currently it is simply not possible at all to do anything with Python Events / Quests related to Africa Screen.
Only Europe Screen can be used in Python Events.

It is embarassing that I had not even noticed until now.
(I should already have taken care of this when implementing Africa Screen.)

By the way:
We have the same issue with "Port Royal" ...

-------

The rest of it needs / should be implemented in branch "Yields".
(Because it really makes the "New Yields / New Economy" much better.)

 

[raystuttgart]

Bumping this so it is not forgotten.
Also I might start working on the remaining parts of this in the near future.