Adding Canada to the civ world

[Lockesdonkey]

We weren't involved in Vietnam as we're not involved in Iraq, either (like I said, we only fight wars in which defeat isn't a certainty). And as for Canada having an 'American culture,' you seem to have that rather backwards.
Furthermore, on paper the provinces are supposed to be powerful, but they're really not. In fact, they are considerably less powerful than American states.

True. I love Canada and the Canadians (they're about forty minutes south of here by car--and no, I don't live in Alaska) but their impact isn't that great. Maybe modded, it might work. But I don't think the Firaxians could be bothered to include it. And in any case, until the 1980s Britian retained some residual powers--for example, any amendments to the Canadian constitution had to pass the British Parliament.

The United States has been a hemishpheric power since the 1870s, a global one since the 1900s. By the time the US had a firm hold on the Americas, Canada had only just established self-rule and had no influence over foreign policy.

 

[mastertyguy]

And in any case, until the 1980s Britian retained some residual powers--for example, any amendments to the Canadian constitution had to pass the British Parliament.

Doesn't the queen signs some paper?
Anyway, BABYLON is not there. how could possibly Canada, with large spots of tundra only, and probably about 5% of the territory occupied, could be there. maybe in civ 24, with Quebec, but at this rythm (something like 1 civ every 5 years), I'll be very old (or dead...).
my 2¢ CAN.

 

[Corvex]

Like I said, if they include minor civilizations in the game, and if Canada was included amoung them, that would be good enough for me. That seems to be the nature of our historical contribution...so far.
But then, as everyone has been so keen to point out, we are still only a young country

 

[mokeysonice]

No offense to any canadians but i feel that if we have canada as a civ we should also include North Korea as its own civ, Libya, and Husseins Iraq---at least. All three of those countrys right now have more political influence than canada--in being that america is **** scared of 3 (no now 2) of them. With all sorts of things like the idea of global warming and such, Canada might indeed be a power in 100 years, but right now there considerably not a power, a first world country, but not a very influential one.

and-this is a bit offtopic, but is switzerland gonna be in civ4? Theyve existed forever and had alot of foreign influence with their mercs.

Maybe there could be a mod of the game which has the entire current world map--with countrys such as canada, north and south korea, Laos and all sorts of non included civs.

Oh, and btw, for whoever said canada shouldnt be included cuz theyve only been a country 100 years, germany has only been a country 119 years since prussia united it. It was having INCREDABLE influence when it was only about 27 years old, and much more horrific influence when it was 53

sorry for the side notes

 

[frekk]

Furthermore, on paper the provinces are supposed to be powerful, but they're really not. In fact, they are considerably less powerful than American states.

Debatable, particularly so since the passing of the Clarity Act. American states are involuntary members of the union, whereas Canadian provinces have been accorded a mechanism for secession (however stringent it might be). A mechanism for self-determination is a fairly powerful asset, regardless of how difficult that mechanism might be - its presence alone sets provinces in an entirely different league than states. Aside from the debate about relative legal power on paper, the fact is that provinces have much, much more practical political clout at the national level than states do. Personally I feel this is largely a result of differences in the approach to the constitutional amendment process and also the nature of the American two-party system which makes regionalist parties improbable at best. Without being able to threaten secession, states really don't have any power at all at the national level when it comes right down to it. So, what (notional) additional powers they have at the state level is more or less inconsequential in the face of the fact they have zero ability to exercise any leverage against the federal power in the case of a dispute. Repeatedly and succesfully, the US federal gov't has increasingly narrowed definitions of state powers and broadly expanded its own role, in an ongoing trend now over a century old. Whereas in Canada, the process has been the exact reverse, with provinces winning additional powers for themselves over time and even inciting long interludes of regional favouritism (eg Trudeau etc) to the degree "regionalism" is a very familiar term and important concept in Canadian politics. Of course, the American states started out with a notion of total sovereignty and voluntary membership in the union, but this has been so eroded over time few Americans are even aware of the original political status of their states. What additional administrative powers they have relative to provinces is merely a legacy and the trend is for Canadian provinces to acquire administrative power through the application of their much greater informal political power. In concrete terms, the provinces have far more real power than states do, because over time they are able to force concessions and erode federal power (whereas states, over time, have concessions forced upon them and are themselves eroded by the federal power).

 

[Janos]

Canada has it's merits, and i love Canadians - nearly every one i've met has been very very friendly (plus the accents on the women are very cute !). However, i think there are lots of civilizations that people would like in... Babylon, Hittite, Celts, Koreans, etc. We have to realise that there obviously has to be a line drawn somewhere. I'm sure that Firaxis will release more civs in an expansion pack - and what i'm hoping is perhaps a new civ in a patch every couple of months or so to add some flavour, that'd be pretty funky.

Anyway - i'm all for Canada and the rest of her pals to be in the game, however i just don't think it's possible right now to fit them all into Civ IV vanilla.

 

[mastertyguy]

If Canada is included [before the 10th x-pack], I'll think the civ creators know we are there [unlike a lot of Americans] (according to a study, somtehing like 25% of all Americans do NOT know there borders (Britney Spears is one of those))

 

[PeteT]

When I used to play Call to Power, I normally played as Canada; but reset the leader's name to be "Dief the Chief" and the capital to be my hometown, Winnipeg (Hi, Corvex).

So, for those who plan on modding Canada into the game: Who are you going to use as the leader and what should be the unique unit? (Bear in mind here that, unless you're going to do your own artwork, you'll be restricted to the types of units that ship with the game. These will presumably be, more or less, the same types of units that were in Civ3 and Civ2.)

 

[mastertyguy]

AH! The capital of Canada should be Quebec, only the queen preferred the lost city of Ottawa...
Leader of Canada should be, humm..., JC Jean Chrétien!!!!!!!
UU should be, humm..., bureaucrats!!!!!!!

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Well, for UU you might try Mounties, with low attack/defense but putting three unhappy citizens to work in the city they're stationed in. I dunno--that's probably a bad idea.

 

[mastertyguy]

Leader: the Queen (officially, we are lead by His Majesty)

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Well, there's your problem. You are still a member of the British Commonwealth, and thus perceived as being at least a bit under English control.

Ditch the British, take Lizzie off of your money, develop nuclear weapons, and declare war on some poor 3rd world country on a silly pretext. (Guatemala is hogging all the sunshine! Canadians demand sunlight sufficient to warm Baffin Island for wheat farming or we invade!)

Make a big fuss and then you can be your own civ.

 

[mastertyguy]

Lets load our transports with modern armors, build Stealth Bomber, and invade. Better: lets switch to Monarchy, rush a few Modern Armor and load our transports. We unload them in ennemy lands, pillage their aluminium and bombard them with a stack of artillery. yeah...

 

[Cheeze]

Actually, Ivan's completely right. Yes I'm serious.
Canada as a nation is a nation of followers. NOT that I mean to insult Canadians, but they got independence from Britain way later, they don't start (or finish) wars, at least not as the main nation.
DO SOMETHING, CANADA!

My personal recommendation is Greenland.
(NOTE: the seriousness of the above statement is proven by the lack of smilies whoops)

 

[frekk]

Well, there's your problem. You are still a member of the British Commonwealth, and thus perceived as being at least a bit under English control.

You do realize that the Commonwealth is about as meaningful as the League of Nations these days, right? England opted to shut it down in all but name quite some time ago. A bit under English control? You're living in the Fifties, maybe earlier. Canada has been under greater American control for the last half-century, than it was under English control the half-century before that.

Canada's better off to play poker, bide its time, and wait for the world to run out of oil, water, wheat, and power. Making a fuss at this stage in the game is silly.

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

AH! The capital of Canada should be Quebec, only the queen preferred the lost city of Ottawa...

Seeing as how Ottawa has always been the capital of the independent nation of Canada.

 

[mastertyguy]

But it was a small lonely town... Quebec should have been the capital.

 

[ThePersian]

Canada as a constitutional manarchy is simply not equal to other Civs like Rome.

I am canadian my self, but there is no need to place it in this game. It is not the same type of country as the Civs in Civ IV.

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

But it was a small lonely town... Quebec should have been the capital.

It doesn't matter what you think the capital should be, the fact is, Ottawa is the capital, and has been since before Confederation.

 

[frekk]

It doesn't matter what you think the capital should be, the fact is, Ottawa is the capital, and has been since before Confederation.

Sure, but Kingston did a much better job of it. Ottawa's a scaredy-capitol ... "oh no! The Americans! We'll go hide somewhere near Meech Lake!"

Kingston would have been the better choice .... more bold. All that money they spent on the Canal and they could have built 12 Fort Henry's and 150 Murney Towers. Or they could have just launched the St. Lawrence at the start of the war, which would amount to pretty much the same thing.