Adding new African civs?

[Lord Roanino]

I think Africa, while not entirely underrepresented, would still be much more interesting with a few added civilizations. My idea was adding the Zulu (which could re-emerge in the modern era as a modern southern African nation) and the Swahili city-states, which could emerge in the region where the independent cities of Mombasa and Quelimane are located. Their UHV goals could be something like this:

Zulu:
1. Control 4 cities and build Ikhandas in them by 1830 A.D.
2. Spawn two great generals and a great prophet by 1900 A.D.
3. Never lose a city to Europeans until 1900 A.D.

Swahili City States:
1. Establish a trade route with China and trade 2 resources to them by 1000 A.D.
2. Build an Islamic Grand Mosque by 1300 A.D.
3. Have 5000 gold in 1400 A.D.

The Zulu would prove to be a shorter but nonetheless challenging game, but Swahili could turn out to have very interesting gameplay. What do you guys think?

 

[oioi23]

These are really good ideas, especially with the enlarged Africa coming with the new map it could really do with some new people. The Zulu especially sound like they’d be a really fun fast paced game. Depending when they start maybe the second Swahili UHV would be a bit too easy? But I’m not sure


I would also suggest the Songhai, as I dislike how west Africa is just Mali forever, they could have the Farari as their UU and there is a great Askiya Muhammad Leaderhead. UHVs could be more militaristic, maybe be the largest civilisation of any with a city in Africa in 1550, have the largest army in Africa etc.


I also recall one slightly mad Songhai king attempting to sail across the Atlantic (he failed) which could make an interesting UHV of settling a city in the new world. However I can’t recall exactly were I heard this and if it’s 100% true

 

[Crimean Lord]

I think Africa, while not entirely underrepresented, would still be much more interesting with a few added civilizations. My idea was adding the Zulu (which could re-emerge in the modern era as a modern southern African nation) and the Swahili city-states, which could emerge in the region where the independent cities of Mombasa and Quelimane are located. Their UHV goals could be something like this:

Zulu:
1. Control 4 cities and build Ikhandas in them by 1830 A.D.
2. Spawn two great generals and a great prophet by 1900 A.D.
3. Never lose a city to Europeans until 1900 A.D.

Swahili City States:
1. Establish a trade route with China and trade 2 resources to them by 1000 A.D.
2. Build an Islamic Grand Mosque by 1300 A.D.
3. Have 5000 gold in 1400 A.D.

The Zulu would prove to be a shorter but nonetheless challenging game, but Swahili could turn out to have very interesting gameplay. What do you guys think?

There is SWAHILI's culture on the mod-mod CIVILIZATION REBORN (by @1SDAN)
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civilizations-reborn.650169/

 

[Caesar Augustus]

These are really good ideas, especially with the enlarged Africa coming with the new map it could really do with some new people. The Zulu especially sound like they’d be a really fun fast paced game. Depending when they start maybe the second Swahili UHV would be a bit too easy? But I’m not sure


I would also suggest the Songhai, as I dislike how west Africa is just Mali forever, they could have the Farari as their UU and there is a great Askiya Muhammad Leaderhead. UHVs could be more militaristic, maybe be the largest civilisation of any with a city in Africa in 1550, have the largest army in Africa etc.


I also recall one slightly mad Songhai king attempting to sail across the Atlantic (he failed) which could make an interesting UHV of settling a city in the new world. However I can’t recall exactly were I heard this and if it’s 100% true

That was actually a Malian King, Abu Bakr II. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_II

 

[MechatronicJazz]

If anyone is interested in diving more into African history for the purposes of this mod (or general interest!) I recommend "History of Africa" by Kevin Shillington. It's a pretty broad text book (as the name suggests), but I found it really helpful for learning about African civilizations I had never heard of and for getting a more accurate picture of those I had heard of. There's probably plenty of free sources online too, but this is a university text that I do not regret buying.

Whatever source you use, I strongly recommend doing lots of reading on African history for these kinds of suggestions if you haven't already. I find that often the civs that I think of as most significant are just those that have become well known in Western pop culture more than those that were actually significant in their time. That said, I like the suggestions here.

I think we should be cautious in how we represent the Zulu, as the situation around their rise is actually quite complicated and they were definitely not the only significant power in the region at the time. I think there should be civs or independent cities in the area to represent other Indigenous southern African polities like the Xhosa, Sotho, and Pedi, as well as the Boer Republics. Probably can't have all of them in as civs in game, but if any of them are on the map, they probably shouldn't just be surrounded by empty land. Definitely a tricky region to balance accuracy and game play.

 

[Steb]

That was actually a Malian King, Abu Bakr II. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_II

Wow I never knew this. It would make for a cool UHV for Mali.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Wow I never knew this. It would make for a cool UHV for Mali.

I only learned about it from another game, Europa Universalis IV, where there's an achievement for colonizing the new world as Mali. Of course we don't really know if Abu Bakr actually attempted it, let alone if he got anywhere (though probably not since you'd think SOME archaeological evidence would have survived), but it does make for some interesting "what ifs." I don't know exactly how you'd make it work as a UHV, though. You'd probably have to lighten up on the gold goal so that Mali could get more research done, or fiddle with the map to let them accomplish it without the requisite techs like the Vikings, and I'm not sure either of those is in the best interests of the mod as a whole. A cute easter egg could be giving Mali a handful of contested tiles in Brazil or Guyana for a player who wants to follow Abu Bakr's footsteps.

I definitely agree with the Swahili as an addition, and tbh it's kind of tragic that they haven't been included in a civ game yet. Songhai as a successor to Mali, or Ghana as a predecessor, would both be great additions as well.

 

[Krieger-FS]

Nubia, Islamic Egypt, Swahili and Kanem-Bornu are must have civs to the new map in my opinion, as they would fill empty spaces in Africa, offer interesting interactions and challenges to existing civs and also were historically relevant (at least regionally). Close second-tier very interesting additions would be the Ghana Empire, Songhai, a Nigerian civ and Boers/South Africa. The Zulu and Great Zimbabwe are also other options to consider, but personally I think that they should have lower priority considering the other ones mentioned here.

 

[Leoreth]

Is there any original ethnicity that built Kanem-Bornu? Is it a Tuareg state?

 

[MechatronicJazz]

Is there any original ethnicity that built Kanem-Bornu? Is it a Tuareg state?

I think Kanem and Borno were separate from the Tuareg. The Kanem state started northeast of Lake Chad among the Kanuri people, based on trade across the Sahara to Tripoli. Borno started as a tributary south of the lake, but the capital moved there later. I think they would have been roughly neighbours to the Tuareg, which around that time would have been organized in the Sultanate of Air.

 

[DC123456789]

Is there any original ethnicity that built Kanem-Bornu? Is it a Tuareg state?

Wikipedia suggests the Kanuri, unrelated to the Berbers.

 

[Dragonxander PR]

I would like to take the opportunity to check if it'd be feasible to include more female leaders with the addition of new African civilizations!

 

[Rogue_Trooper]

Great ideas! It would fantastic to have some strong African civs beat off the slavers and colonizers!

 

[BaneFire]

On the other hand I would like to see some slightly more common marine-type units. As it currently stands attempting an invasion of West Africa is pretty difficult as two city-garrison one xbows can make what should be a quick city-capture a lot more difficult. In turn this would allow for more realistic European play as you would attempt to take West African cities as England, France, Portugal and Spain to get slaves for colonies.

 

[ShinobiHus92]

Yes this something I really would like to see! Perhaps making Ghana and the Mali as 1 civ? This means the Madinka Civ will spawn way earlier around 300ish AD? It would be quite interessting to see how it would interact with the Romans and later the Arabians. This also means that Ghana starts pagan and later could adopt Islam evoling into the later Mali and Songhai empires.

I'm also all in for the Swahili, Nubians, Zulu and the Kanem Bornu civs! With this the Nubians can later respawn as the modern Sudan and the Zulu into South Africa

 

[Rogue_Trooper]

When Leoreth added Mexico and the South American civs to DoC it was a revelation. Then Canada was added. To have South Africa (and Australia) would complete the world map. The Zulu if colonized could respawn as South Africa in 1910 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_South_Africa).

Australia would spawn at Canberra in 1901 (https://peo.gov.au/understand-our-p...ament/federation/the-federation-of-australia/). I think Australia needs some barbarian units (spearmen) moving about the continent to represent the Aboriginal peoples.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Yes this something I really would like to see! Perhaps making Ghana and the Mali as 1 civ? This means the Madinka Civ will spawn way earlier around 300ish AD? It would be quite interessting to see how it would interact with the Romans and later the Arabians. This also means that Ghana starts pagan and later could adopt Islam evoling into the later Mali and Songhai empires.

I'm also all in for the Swahili, Nubians, Zulu and the Kanem Bornu civs! With this the Nubians can later respawn as the modern Sudan and the Zulu into South Africa

Oooh merging Ghana and Mali is something I hadn't thought of but makes a lot of sense. If nothing else it would allow a little more variety in terms of the Malian UHV. That said I don't know enough about the history of the region to know if calling them part of the same culture is reasonable or not.

 

[brett0007]

I suppose Ill throw my lot in with a few lesser known candidates, The Sao civilization The Empire of Kitara and the Luba Kingdom . If nothing they might be good as independants to flesh out the African interior.

 

[Steb]

Mali already spawns in the 10th century, much before the actual emergence of the real Mali Empire in the 13th century, but it's unclear what it is supposed to represent before that—Ghana Empire, Gao Empire, or just whatever tribes eventually coalesced into the Mali Empire?

 

[hnrysml]

I don't know if this is just a coincidence, but the Mali spawn date is the date of the founding of the University of Sankore.