Additional Luxury Resources for VP

[Nightmare Dusk]

I don't think we need more luxuries in VP. The existing ones already cover everything and were a pain to balance (with respect to base yields, improvement yields, building yields, monopoly effects, AND spawn rate).

While I'm already of the mind that more resources is better, I definitely think there needs to be a pasture luxury or two and i really wish for another camp (feathers would be amazing)

 

[azum4roll]

Feathers as an open camp can cover the hole left by Ivory.

I'm not aware of any pasture resource that can be a luxury, which is supposed to be rare and not domesticated, at least back in the early ages.

 

[hokath]

One-by-one, my thoughts:

Spoiler Feathers :

I don't think there's any argument that Feathers would be a good camp luxury for exactly the reasons mentioned. Sadly we just cannot figure out the graphics.
It seems like maybe the way to do it is to have it work the way Citadel works (where the resource sits with the improvement), but this requires messing with the whole Camp improvement so its not appealing for that reason. Also it might still not work lol.

Spoiler Pastures :

Jarcast and I have had the same discussions about the Pasture Luxuries.
The first point is this one about improvement balance. Should there be Pasture Luxuries at all? (open question, but if you say no then obv you can just skip this part of the discussion)

On the particular choices:
Camels are a region variant of Horse, but they cannot be a Strategic for gameplay reasons so its either Bonus or Luxury. Of course Bonus is fairly boring and Luxury has monopolies, this motivates a lot of it.
Jarcast told me camel milk is a thing (citation needed). Having it as luxury also means you get lots of Camels together (looks cool), and it competes with the Incense desert start which adds variety.
Camel adds Food to Desert. Now a) is this desirable and b) if it is, should it be only some (Luxury) or all (Bonus).
Here I see it both ways.

Alpacas are a regional variant of Sheep, so why not a Bonus?

I don't know if I would like Alpacas everywhere, they are not as abundant as sheeps or goats worldwide (which nevertheless doesn't make them a luxury).

The argument here is that it exactly does make them a luxury. Ultra rarity of the wool. This is why we put the building bonus on Customs House (later export building, c.f. Cotton).
Again it also adds some Food to otherwise low-Food area (Hills region). Pros and cons there.

Spoiler Quartz :

On Quartz as a luxury vs Gems.
Gems are, I think, meant to be like Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires i.e. precious stones. Now, some (semi) precious stones are indeed chemically based on silica, like Citrine and Amethyst, and in (isolated) ancient cultures these would have been considered precious (religious objects, even). Impurities cause the stone to become coloured and often opaque.
Quartz on the other hand is more representing pure deposits of the transparent mineral. This is the material from which lenses are often made (e.g. for telescopes, glasses, hence workshop boost). Only very pure quartz is used in modern applications, and getting hold of this is actually very hard (e.g. semiconductor chips, solar cells, hence research lab boost).
That is, quartz that is appropriate for these applications is the opposite kind to that which would be considered a gemstone.

I've covered this in the civilopedia text.

 

[Lumpyacidfish]

One-by-one, my thoughts:

Spoiler Feathers :

I don't think there's any argument that Feathers would be a good camp luxury for exactly the reasons mentioned. Sadly we just cannot figure out the graphics.
It seems like maybe the way to do it is to have it work the way Citadel works (where the resource sits with the improvement), but this requires messing with the whole Camp improvement so its not appealing for that reason. Also it might still not work lol.

Spoiler Pastures :

Jarcast and I have had the same discussions about the Pasture Luxuries.
The first point is this one about improvement balance. Should there be Pasture Luxuries at all? (open question, but if you say no then obv you can just skip this part of the discussion)

On the particular choices:
Camels are a region variant of Horse, but they cannot be a Strategic for gameplay reasons so its either Bonus or Luxury. Of course Bonus is fairly boring and Luxury has monopolies, this motivates a lot of it.
Jarcast told me camel milk is a thing (citation needed). Having it as luxury also means you get lots of Camels together (looks cool), and it competes with the Incense desert start which adds variety.
Camel adds Food to Desert. Now a) is this desirable and b) if it is, should it be only some (Luxury) or all (Bonus).
Here I see it both ways.

Alpacas are a regional variant of Sheep, so why not a Bonus?

The argument here is that it exactly does make them a luxury. Ultra rarity of the wool. This is why we put the building bonus on Customs House (later export building, c.f. Cotton).
Again it also adds some Food to otherwise low-Food area (Hills region). Pros and cons there.

Spoiler Quartz :

On Quartz as a luxury vs Gems.
Gems are, I think, meant to be like Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires i.e. precious stones. Now, some (semi) precious stones are indeed chemically based on silica, like Citrine and Amethyst, and in (isolated) ancient cultures these would have been considered precious (religious objects, even). Impurities cause the stone to become coloured and often opaque.
Quartz on the other hand is more representing pure deposits of the transparent mineral. This is the material from which lenses are often made (e.g. for telescopes, glasses, hence workshop boost). Only very pure quartz is used in modern applications, and getting hold of this is actually very hard (e.g. semiconductor chips, solar cells, hence research lab boost).
That is, quartz that is appropriate for these applications is the opposite kind to that which would be considered a gemstone.

I've covered this in the civilopedia text.

feathers is weird for a resource, I cant think in history an entire plot of land dedicated to birds
I remember in civ 4 there is a random event when you have a warrior or scout run through jungle *rare parots have been discovered and now are being used as pets*
Event38
Parrots
Prereq: Own 1 Jungle tile AND ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY
Obsolete: None
Active/Weight: 85/50
Result:
1.the tile gains +1 commerce

 

[azum4roll]

The existing luxury resources are all rare (in early ages) foods, textiles, materials, and jewelery. Quartz seems to be in the tool category, which fits in none of those (maybe closer to strategic, but not common enough to be one).

Now we're not going to consider modern age usages, or we'll be adding Titanium as a luxury resource or something.

 

[Lumpyacidfish]

will this get updated for the latest vp?

 

[SolutionIt]

Any chance we'll see more bonus resources for Snow and Tundra? I know I have seen the idea of Reindeers get thrown around often here so animal husbandry at least has a bonus resource available in tundra and snow tiles.

 

[hokath]

feathers is weird for a resource, I cant think in history an entire plot of land dedicated to birds
I remember in civ 4 there is a random event when you have a warrior or scout run through jungle *rare parots have been discovered and now are being used as pets*
Event38
Parrots
Prereq: Own 1 Jungle tile AND ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY
Obsolete: None
Active/Weight: 85/50
Result:
1.the tile gains +1 commerce

Wikipedia has an interest bit about Florida in the 19th century.
We often also have areas for hunting of birds as reserved land -- here not so much the feathers themselves of course.

I love feathers...

@SolutionIt Jarcast and I intend to add Reindeer as a civ-specific resource in an upcoming mod.

 

[Lumpyacidfish]

Wikipedia has an interest bit about Florida in the 19th century.
We often also have areas for hunting of birds as reserved land -- here not so much the feathers themselves of course.

I love feathers...

@SolutionIt Jarcast and I intend to add Reindeer as a civ-specific resource in an upcoming mod.

makes sense

 

[Dr Roach]

> feathers is weird for a resource, I cant think in history an entire plot of land dedicated to birds
so, feathers were actually quite an important trade good in places and cultures which wore feathers as decorations. In North America feathers were a major trade good - feathers from parrots and other tropical birds in Central America have been found at burial sites throughout the American Southwest, for example. Later on parrots have also become valuable for the pet trade. Budgerigars, from Australia, have become the worlds third most common pet, for example. Feathers could be good not only as a jungle luxury but also for deserts, since budgies are desert birds.

Also, this is kind of a minor thing but camels are actually kind of a big luxury export product for Somaliland. Camel meat is in high demand in Saudi Arabia and other Arab Gulf states, but these places are also very poor for agriculture, so they import most of their camel meat from abroad. You can see in this documentary I posted below, where hundreds of camels are loaded onto container ships bound for Saudi Arabia.

 

[Jeddite]

Not sure why and if it will be more of it, but I've just seen a camel on coast on newest final 4.22 iirc. Mod otherwise and until that point works flawlessly. Also this camel is unimprovable by both fishing bot or embarked worker. I checked just out of curiosity.