Advanced tips+ enjoyment

[newbie2]

So around what turn do you start building your first settler then?

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Not the best (fastest) player here but like you i tend to be (semi) peaceful when not going for domination otherwise i feel like every victory is just disguised domination.

It depends a bit on the surrounding land and what my warrior finds when exploring

• If i have some good early resources (mining/animal husbandry), especially those that will give me more production i try to have a worker early so i would usually go slinger - worker - slinger*2 - settler or slinger*2 - worker - slinger - settler if there's a nearby barbarian camp and/or nearby AI.
• Without good nearby resources i would go slinger*3 - worker - settler and chop a forest-hill before mining it to speed up the settler.
• If i want to go for religion it will usually be slinger*2 - worker - holy site - settler or slinger*2 - holy site - settler depending on resources (and then run Prayers project once or twice)
• If there's a really good spot of land nearby (such as a good natural wonder) and an AI might settle it i might go slinger - settler (possibly starting the second slinger or the worker while waiting for the city to grow to size 2 and then switching to settler).
• If there is a lot of space between me and the closest AI i might put a monument before the first settler to get to governments faster, unless i got first contact with a cultural CS or i have some culture resources and/or god of the open sky.

Usually i start the first settler between T15 and T20. You can do nothing about the first AI cities at higher difficulties as they get free settlers (1 free from emperor up, 2 at deity!) but they usually don't get the next ones for some time. However if you wait too long they will get more and they will settler the good spots. If you don't mind being only semi-peaceful you can try to stay near their capital and wait for their first produced settler then steal it. Most of the time early wars without city captures don't have any lasting effects on your diplomacy (the AI don't care that you took one of their settlers).

 

[Victoria]

So around what turn do you start building your first settler then?

Not the best (fastest) player here either but I like the mechanics of things and playing things in different ways just because I get bored easily.

Getting settlers out early is the fastest way to grow beyond war, Even with war the second city just helps support your war effort a lot. If a builder can improve the land first then that really helps and its a very good way to also get a cheap early army through the craftsmanship eureka. A scout really helps me understand my surroundings and how I will play a game ... so I tend to go scout, builder, settler which seems fairly popular but is risky.

 

[EgonSpengler]

So around what turn do you start building your first settler then?

I play a violent early game, which the OP wanted to avoid, but I typically don't build a Settler until I have a base of 4-6 cities. Then I adopt Colonization and build 4-6 Settlers simultaneously. I'm not sure about turn count, but it's all during the Ancient and Classical Eras.

An example, in a new game I started the other night: Playing Scythia, I annexed Bandar Brunei as my 2nd city, then took over Kongo and their 3 cities. Now I've got 5 cities and I'm building 5 Settlers with Colonization. I forget what turn it is, but I've just entered the Classical Era via Political Philosophy and Horseback Riding. The map generator gave me an unusually large area to build in, with only Mvemba as competition, so I'm going to depart from my normal strategy and go for another 2-3 Settlers after these 5 instead of working on new Districts. Twelve cities while still in the Classical Era should be an unassailable base to build on. All of the VCs are still open to me (including Religious, and I'd like to try out the new stuff), so I can pretty much do whatever I want. Barbarians aside, I bet I won't fight another war unless I decide to start one. This is Emperor-Pangaea-Epic, btw.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

On the subject of scouts, yes there is a bit of luck involved in what they find. The most important thing they do is give you map knowledge, but it's usually a safe bet that they will find a number of useful things. It takes truly terrible luck for them to find *nothing*. On the other hand they are extremely versatile for settler/worker steals, support, ZoC and as bait. They're also great for maintaining visibility to prevent barbs from spawning. Scouts are extremely powerful units if used properly.

 

[newbie2]

Not the best (fastest) player here but like you i tend to be (semi) peaceful when not going for domination otherwise i feel like every victory is just disguised domination.

It depends a bit on the surrounding land and what my warrior finds when exploring

• If i have some good early resources (mining/animal husbandry), especially those that will give me more production i try to have a worker early so i would usually go slinger - worker - slinger*2 - settler or slinger*2 - worker - slinger - settler if there's a nearby barbarian camp and/or nearby AI.

this is pretty much the build order I go for almost all starts, as it is in my experience rare that you dont have 3 tiles you want improved and you want the 3tiles improved inspiration. I dont mind a bit of war early on (as the AI and barbarians pretty much force you into it), but a conquering spree is nothing for me

what difficulty do you play on?

 

[UWHabs]

On the subject of scouts, yes there is a bit of luck involved in what they find. The most important thing they do is give you map knowledge, but it's usually a safe bet that they will find a number of useful things. It takes truly terrible luck for them to find *nothing*. On the other hand they are extremely versatile for settler/worker steals, support, ZoC and as bait. They're also great for maintaining visibility to prevent barbs from spawning. Scouts are extremely powerful units if used properly.

Although even finding "nothing" is still something if it reveals the terrain nearby. It helps me judge if I have space to spread peacefully, or if I'm going to need to spread by the sword. The only true "nothing" a scout can find is a barb camp that immediately kills it.

 

[Victoria]

Although even finding "nothing" is still something if it reveals the terrain nearby. It helps me judge if I have space to spread peacefully, or if I'm going to need to spread by the sword. The only true "nothing" a scout can find is a barb camp that immediately kills it.

Even that is not nothing, it could well be a bronze working eureka.
A scout finding you are on a tiny island is depressing.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well, finding out you're on an island will allow you to adjust your strategy as needed instead of sending several archers to conquer nothing.

 

[Sobaka]

At the beginning getting to a level 2 governement around turn 50 is very useful, getting to mercenaries as soon as possible after that gives a very very powerful knight army that if you play right can take most of the world.... all due to early monuments. Its not just that... things like getting to enlightenment earlier for great science boosts, feudalism is very immportant for thew double builder as well as the kinight eureka.... the list just goes on and on.


Sooo, last game my scout got a settler 6 turns in, what can compete with that. Its much more than that though... the scout is such a handy unit played well. For a start it will always be targeted first so you can get unbits to chase you or even sacrifice your scout so save a more expensive unit. 3 archers in front of a city will take a long time to kill it because it heals... a scout behind the city will then put the city under seige.
The scout can be used as a support unit and a flanking unit for +2.
I have not even started on the luck stuff you talked about aspart from the settler.

You have received a settler from a hut? I play at deity and have never seen this in countless games - perhaps that reward is not available at deity?

Not the best (fastest) player here either but I like the mechanics of things and playing things in different ways just because I get bored easily.

It is impossible to compare apples and oranges, since I play: deity, island plates, marathon, giant map, with the mods YnAMP, QUO, Wonderous wonders, with only domination as the vc. With QUO, no science and culture from population, and no settler production (50%) bonuses. It is a bigger challenge with QUO combined tweaks.

Nevertheless, religion helps in getting to a domination victory in these circumstances. I go for Scout, monument, builder, settler, holy site, a wonder if possible.

Scout - know the terrain, pick up huts
Monument - need to fast track to mysticism to get a prophet faster
Builder - need to increase production or food, whichever is lacking to achieve the short term goal of getting a religion
Setter - a 2nd city is essential to produce anything from boats, land units, other builds while the capital is building the holy site - or maybe the 2nd city is a better location for the holy site.
Holy site - impossible for me to get a religion without building one.
Wonder - depends on the MOD, but you are likely to get one of them with focus (chopping forest as an example), and they can be very valuable early on.

At this stage, I start on the military and trade routes. The AI may declare war a repeatedly, but they always back down - so only a few units early is enough - scouts are much more important on a larger map.

I like slow games with space between civs, and island plates has the advantage that the AI will have to wait a while before they bring the land units to you. Even on the larger land masses, they are useless at combat (hence playing at deity with QUO installed is ideal for a real challenge).

In short, getting a religion is a boost and could be essential to win in the above game scenario. In fact, even with a domination win as the only vc, the AI does place a huge priority on religion (if only to annoy me with spawning countless apostles), since religion can affect other parts of the game - diplomacy, cs and the resources and units they can provide to you, etc.). In fact, I have won every single game when I had a religion, but lost a few or gave up when I did not.

 

[Victoria]

You have received a settler from a hut? I play at deity and have never seen this in countless games - perhaps that reward is not available at deity?

I suspect you are correct.
I was listening to one of the MP site developers in a post patch podcast and he was saying it's disabled because it's set to 0 as a percentage chance but I know I have got a settler on difficulty levels below prince, but never at prince or above. a bit like the free tech. So I think you get a % increase below prince and that developers can be a touch arrogant sometimes in their assumptions.

 

[Sobaka]

I suspect you are correct.
I was listening to one of the MP site developers in a post patch podcast and he was saying it's disabled because it's set to 0 as a percentage chance but I know I have got a settler on difficulty levels below prince, but never at prince or above. a bit like the free tech. So I think you get a % increase below prince and that developers can be a touch arrogant sometimes in their assumptions.

Thanks for the confirmation. What I do find interesting with the latest patch on the hut rewards at deity is that I am getting builders and +1 population constantly - the % of extra faith, gold, are less frequent. Now I regularly have 2-3 builders awarded when my capital is still at 1-3 population, or alternatively extra population that cannot be maintained due to small boarder size or low food production before I have even improved a single tile. In one game recently, the first 3 huts I found gave builders, so I either had to save them near the capital or use them as scouts - I chose the latter, they ended up on huts for +1 population! - in the end I did not have enough food to maintain the population of the capital, no tiles to improve, and no money to buy any tiles! So I just returned them to safe land until sailing and used them as scout again.

 

[Victoria]

confirmation. What I do find interesting with the latest patch on the hut rewards at deity is that I am getting builders and +1 population constantly -

Thank you! ... I thought I was going mad, I think the removal of the trader requirement has made it a lot easier.

 

[Spudsie74]

Scout vs Slinger? On emperor & up, I still usually build a slinger (first), just in case. If I don't get a free goodie-hut scout (or buy one), I usually build it second: slinger, (settler or builder), second combat unit. The are versitle, and IMO, well worth the investment. King level, I'll usually go w/ scout first.

 

[Victoria]

I'm tempted to go scout scout sometimes... I just love them. Not the one that would go exploring but the one that would stay with my army... they just are ... unique
When someone once told me you could walk a scout around your city with a barb chasing it and a slinger inside shooting it... I tried it... laughed and laughed....just no end of fun and different things with them

 

[Forster]

Yeah, a barb horseman will go after the scout on a hill and in the woods, neglecting the builder right next to it.

 

[Victoria]

Yeah, a barb horseman will go after the scout on a hill and in the woods, neglecting the builder right next to it.

Last night One scout stole an early builder, took Toronto off Germany when they were about to take it and when Germany DOW me a few turns later my scout led one of the warriors off course which probably saved Toronto from the evil wurstmunchers. One also created ZOC city takes turns before I could have done so with warriors.. they are just lovely.
My 3rd died to some barbs, such is the way of scouts.

 

[Bee7]

On the subject of scouts... (text cut) They're also great for maintaining visibility to prevent barbs from spawning. Scouts are extremely powerful units if used properly.

Preventing camps spawning is the main reason I build scouts—it can save huge amounts of time wasted chopping down waves of barbs. Of course, it means your other units don’t get the experience from killing them, but then they can get that from the rest of the AI. So I tend to have a city spamming them as soon as I can get it set up.

Last night One scout stole an early builder, took Toronto off Germany when they were about to take it and when Germany DOW me a few turns later my scout led one of the warriors off course which probably saved Toronto from the evil wurstmunchers. One also created ZOC city takes turns before I could have done so with warriors.. they are just lovely.

After reading one of your other posts, I have been experimenting with using scouts as bait and my current record is a 15 hex chase! I kept having to dawdle my unit because it kept outpacing the competition. If only I could do something similar with the kids, I could probably play much more of this game.