Advice on Buying a new Computer for Civ IV!

[chad77]

Hi all,

I've been thinking of a new computer for a while now, and Civ IV is the straw that broke the camel's back.

So I'm wondering if people have any advice about where to get a new computer. I think I want to trick it our because I want it to be useful for several years... like it would be nice if it'd last through Civ 5.

I built some custom systems on dell.com and hp.com, but they're into the $3000 range. I've looked at overstock.com, and they have some decent systems (3GHz P4, 512 MB RAM, 160 GB HD) for about $700, and good monitors for $300, but I don't know what video cards are in them, and to me that's a bit light on RAM and HD space.

Aside from building my own, which I don't really have the time and know-how to do, where do you suggest I look?

Also, what is the difference between dual core, hyperthreading, etc.? What's the difference between Pentium 4 D, Celeron, etc.?

Thanks for any advice you may have. I appreciate it!

 

[chad77]

Also, what do people think about the new Dell XPS systems, other than, they're expensive?

 

[Tulkas12]

you could do slightly better on ebay, but not much. You can't do any better than that on new egg.

160gb is enough lol. if not you could always add more hdd space later. Just make sure you know what kind of ram you are getting and the interface on the vid card so you are able to upgrade later. Avoid integrated cards at all cost.

O and I think the difference in celeron and pentium is bandwidth but I could be wrong. If you want it for gaming, go pentium, I do know that.

 

[chad77]

you could do slightly better on ebay, but not much. You can't do any better than that on new egg.

160gb is enough lol. if not you could always add more hdd space later. Just make sure you know what kind of ram you are getting and the interface on the vid card so you are able to upgrade later. Avoid integrated cards at all cost.

O and I think the difference in celeron and pentium is bandwidth but I could be wrong. If you want it for gaming, go pentium, I do know that.

Thanks for your help. I will avoid an integrated card for sure.

160 GB is enough, yeah, but I thought 40GB was enough when I got my laptop and now it's full of video and gigantic games and so on. I figured why not trick it out right from the get-go.

Also, 2 GB of RAM seems to be the most you can get standard, and most motherboards will support up to 4 GB, but I wonder what's the max you can go right now? (When I got my first 486, it came with 4 MB!)

How fast are system buses these days? Ever since I finished my computer science minor in college I have not paid attention to these things.

 

[Citizen Philip]

Thanks for your help. I will avoid an integrated card for sure.

160 GB is enough, yeah, but I thought 40GB was enough when I got my laptop and now it's full of video and gigantic games and so on. I figured why not trick it out right from the get-go.

Also, 2 GB of RAM seems to be the most you can get standard, and most motherboards will support up to 4 GB, but I wonder what's the max you can go right now? (When I got my first 486, it came with 4 MB!)

How fast are system buses these days? Ever since I finished my computer science minor in college I have not paid attention to these things.

The answer is good quality parts.

The question is how much money, and which parts do you need to buy?

A name brand system is something I would avoid if possible as their only answer for technical support is: reformat & reinstall windows. In most metropolian cities their will be reputable parts dealers who will take orders for what you want, and throw it together for a fee. That is the best route because: You must read up on what you want to buy, and thus learn more.

 

[chad77]

OK Phillip, good stuff! Where's a good place to read up about all the stuff?

Such as: What's RAID regarding hard drives? What's the difference between SDRAM, DRAM, etc.?

Which video card comes with or can take the most memory?

Things have changed a lot since I programmed on my Apple ][, but I've still got that tru-skool flava!

Another question: Both ATI and Nvidia cards seem to have trouble running Civ 4. Which should I go with?

Thanks!

 

[Flyguy_1]

I love this site. it has a lot of useful info about pc hardware:

http://www.tomshardware.com/index.html

Personally, lately I've prefered Nvidia to Ati and with the recent rash of ati problems regarding civ4 it only enhanced my feelings. But it's a matter of choice I suppose, many love ati.

 

[zonk]

OK Phillip, good stuff! Where's a good place to read up about all the stuff?

Such as: What's RAID regarding hard drives? What's the difference between SDRAM, DRAM, etc.?

Which video card comes with or can take the most memory?

Things have changed a lot since I programmed on my Apple ][, but I've still got that tru-skool flava!

Another question: Both ATI and Nvidia cards seem to have trouble running Civ 4. Which should I go with?

Thanks!

Just a little advice on RAM (and I'm no expert, just saying because I added 2 sticks last night and had some issues)....
I don't think many manufacturers are using it anymore - but avoid "RDRAM", aka 'RAMBUS'. It was supposed to be the successor to SDRAM, but never worked out because of the price. Great performance, but it shouldn't cost hundreds of dollars to add 256 additional.

Personally - I'd suggest planning on getting a motherboard that allows you to at least double your original RAM size, then, also check around various retailors and sites to make sure additional sticks are readily available. As I'm sure you know - adding more RAM is a great way to keep an older pc running with newer software.

The different variations on RAM all revolve around the way it works - really just a matter of counterbalancing the cost of adding more/the original cost, and the performance. There many better places than me to discuss the pros and cons of the various types -- but you'll get the idea from just comparing the prices of the various types (i.e., 512 of one flavor vs 512 of another).

The key -- and this is what I just learned -- is that whatever you start with, you're stuck with (i.e, I started with 512 RDRAM.. had to add identical pairs of RDRAM).... So in my case, no option but to find someone that still supplies RDRAM and pay through the nose for.

 

[HMSVictory]

I don't have great advice on what you need or want but I do know of a site which lists all the Dell deals. They change most every day so you should be able to find something within your budget which you like. The site is

www.gotapex.com

Good Luck!

 

[Citizen Philip]

OK Phillip, good stuff! Where's a good place to read up about all the stuff?

Such as: What's RAID regarding hard drives? What's the difference between SDRAM, DRAM, etc.?

Which video card comes with or can take the most memory?

Things have changed a lot since I programmed on my Apple ][, but I've still got that tru-skool flava!

Another question: Both ATI and Nvidia cards seem to have trouble running Civ 4. Which should I go with?

Thanks!

Technical support forums are one of the worst places for advice, as mostly those who are annoyed and frustrated because they can't get something working post.

HardOCP has everything you will need: http://www.hardforum.com/

Every section has an FAQ with low to high end selections, reliability, brands and possible problems. Invest sometime reading the FAQs and then the forums and you can become well-informed.

 

[Old Dood]

If you go to Dell.com then be patient. Dell always has a deal. But not all deals are good ones. Once a month Dell has a decent deal. Once every two-three months they have a real good deal.

I have bought three Dell systems since 2000. I have always got a good deal. I wait. Read. Check reviews.

Dells are not the fastest out there...but they are pretty stable/solid. I myself got a Dim 5100(Called the E510 now). The price was right. If you are looking at the High End XPS 600 they are expensive. They do have ALL the bells & whistles. Personally the XPS400(originally called the Dim 9100) is pretty much the same thing. Only cheaper. You can not get the dual video card SLI on it though. That is only on the XPS 600.

I always print out what I want then call Dell up and order. This way you can talk them into Free Shipping.

 

[chad77]

Ok, what's a dual video card?

And I heard that there are programs that will help you use system RAM as extra for your video card? Could that make my 16MB video card run Civ4?

 

[dragontail]

Ok, what's a dual video card?

And I heard that there are programs that will help you use system RAM as extra for your video card? Could that make my 16MB video card run Civ4?

"Dual video card" config has two physical video cards working together as one and get a (theoritically) 2x performance. In reality you get something from 1 to 1.7. Not every game supports dual video card mode. I don't know if Civ4 does or not.

If your card has only 16M memory you need to get a new one. There's no way that a software program could make your system "lend" some main memory to video card

 

[ShortBus]

If money isn't an option, you can find some pretty sweet (aka expensive) desktop replacement laptops out there that support more than 4 Gb memory and you can even get the latest nVidia (7800??) video card in them.

However, you'll definately need yours and your friends wallet to afford them. Do a search on google for gaming laptops and then send me a dirty look for tempting you.

 

[Harleqin]

So, what if money is a problem? I don't do much gaming really partially due to other commitments and partially due to an ancient comp that is older than Civ3

Now, I need to update motherboard, RAM, graphics and CPU... at least, though that should do it.
If I'm just looking for something to run Civ4 and Rome: Total War, what should I be looking at? I'm not playing first person shooters much. Only have Medal of Honor of that kind and that's pretty low-tech.

I'm thinking since I don't need anything fancy or for the future, then I can be safe with slightly older products. I've more or less settled on a nVidia GeForce 6200 as it seems very good for the price... and can be gotten as AGP which makes both it and the motherboard cheaper RAM isn't so flexible in cost.
What should I look at for board/CPU though? I thought something with PCI-e slot, but I might not need it. Should I go for an older P4 1,8Ghz or maybe Athlon instead? They seem slightly cheaper and the old 2600+ should be able to handle my needs.

Any advice?

For the record I got an old 128MB 900Mhz Pentium with an ancient nVidia TNT2 Ultra card

 

[chad77]

I won't even look ShortBus, because while I'm not opposed to spending money on a good system that will last a while, I don't need excessive luxury either.

With dual video card, do they have to be the same card/brand? I shouldn't really need a video card if I have like 256 MB video RAM, right? What's the highest amount of video RAM you can get?

 

[cory4457]

Chad,

First of all you will nedd a video card as that is where the video RAM is located. My overall advice would be to study up on building your own machine as it is quite easily done with the right information. Your board should allow at least 2GB memory and you should probably start with 1GB. A 160 HD is plenty for now and easily upgraded if necessary. The differemce between P4 and Celeron comes down to on board cache and bus speed. If you are building a gaming machine you must get a P4 with 800mhz FSB and 1MB on board L2 cache. Also, your memory should be ddr 3200 to match the 800 mhz bus speed of the processor. For the video card I would recommend an ATI 9800 pro (or nvidea equivilent). These are great cards and somewhat affordable now. You can always spend more money on the video card if you have it, but a 9800 pro should last a little while (at least until the $400 versions come down in price like ther 9800 has).

If this is confusing to you, just do some research with the above info on the net. I am basically describing my system above and it runs everything quite well.

 

[archer75]

You don't need much power to play Civ 4. That said, I can build you a system. I've been doing alot of research lately as I planning on launching my business soon.

 

[Euphoric One]

Chad, two very basic questions:

1. How much are you looking to spend?

2. What do you want this machine to do?

Can't give much quality advice without answering that.


Also, it would appear to need an s-load of computer to play Civ IV, as the game is chugging on a lot of the higher end machines out there, but that may be due to a bug.

 

[Citizen Philip]

I won't even look ShortBus, because while I'm not opposed to spending money on a good system that will last a while, I don't need excessive luxury either.

With dual video card, do they have to be the same card/brand? I shouldn't really need a video card if I have like 256 MB video RAM, right? What's the highest amount of video RAM you can get?

There are two major video card brands: ATI and nVidia.

Nvidia uses SLI to run two PCI-E cards in a PC: The cards must be identical, the motherboard must support SLI and you MUST have a very good power supply to make sure your mobo and cards are getting enough power.

SLI is ready right now.

ATI uses Crossfire to run two PCI-E cards in a PC: There is a "master" card and a slave card, the cards do not have to be the same: but they most as fast as the slowest component. Like SLI you will need a mobo that supports Xfire and invest in a good power supply.

Xfire is not ready currently, but will be released in a month or two.

Generally:
Nvidia runs well, at the expense of same graphic quality
ATI runs mostly well and has very high graphic quality.

The highend cards are: Geforce 7800 (Nvidia) and x1600 (ATI). ATI's card is brand new and has newer technology, but there is still a limited supply of cards, Nvidia's card will be a beat cheaper and is readily avalible.

A great SLI rig will cost you upwards of $3200 before tax, excluding a monitor.