Aeterna Civitas III

[McMonkey]

I think this is the first time I have tried to use Leonardo's in a scenario and it was a bit fiddly to get it working right, but I think the effort was well worthwhile. I may be completely wrong here, but are the Roman Legion (IE one unit creating a whole army) and the repeating Leonardo's events new innovations?

I hope so as I like to try and push the boundaries as much as I can (granted its not in the same technical league as El Aurens or War of the Rings!) and introduce something new with each scenario. Also when I say new innovations I really mean extensions of existing concepts.

When I have the spare time I would like to add some of these design concepts to the Scenario Design Guide thread for others to use along with things like Frederick the Great's campaigning seasons, El Aurens units system and all the other great concepts designers have come with over the years. For now I need to stay focuesed on getting ACIII finished though

 

[Fairline]

Here's the Bosporans McM:

 

[McMonkey]

Perfect. The infantry have the business like pose I requested, thanks!

I'm very close to being ready for the test now. I have about twelve events left to program in. The problem is working out which other events to remove to make space. I decided to replace the Egyptian Legion with a Spanish one (the Ptolemid Training camps are moved to near Carthago Nova). I figured that after the capture of Egypt there was little indigenous resistance there, whereas there ware major wars against the Celtiberians after Rome took Hispania from the Carthaginians. This also allowed me to combine five large events representing Scipio's invasion of Iberia during the second Punic War. I replaced the five events with one that created three New Legion units next to the Spanish Training Camp. The first co-ordinates are under Carthago Nova, but if this is blocked they will appear on the coast near Saguntum.

I have also been thinking about thinning out some of the Celtic cities. This would allow me to use the city slot elsewhere (for example I wanted to include Apamea in Anatolia and some more Armenian and Parthian cities). Each one I ditch would also free up an event as all the Celtic cities have a change of name text message and counter attacking units appearing after their cities are captured.

 

[Fairline]

Perfect. The infantry have the business like pose I requested, thanks!

Oops, didn't read the brief about 'business-like' posing. Do you want a more aggressive stance on the spearman, or will the sword chappie do?

The more I read your posts about your planned events, the more I'm looking forward to this! The only comment I'd make about ditching the Egyptian legion training camp is that quite a lot happened on the Syrian border over the years which will need dealing with (wars with Parthia, Sassanians, Zenobia etc). Unless, of course, you have a camp in Syria...

 

[McMonkey]

There is a camp outside Antiochia for training Syrian Legions so I thought the Egyptian one could be better used in Spain. I think the scenario had been tilted to the west in its original form and once Carthage, Macedon and the Celts were sorted the east would have been a bit of a cakewalk. I have been thinning out Celtic cities to build more Parthian and Armenian ones. I have also dedicated more events space to the Mithridatic, Armenian and Parthian wars.

The Bosporan Spearman is perfect, he has the look of a man facing into a strong wind, staring down his enemy!

 

[Fairline]

Glad he's OK.

Good to hear you're putting effort into Eastern events; I guess Rome was never able to subdue the Parthians and Sassanids over 5 or 600 years. Just out of interest, what are the timescales for this one Drew? Do you start out with Rome as city state all the way through to the fall in the West, or do you stop in early-Imperial times? EDIT: just re-read your first post, ends with the first Dacian War!

BTW, apologies for pinching your manager (if it happens!). I'd rather have Moyes than mourinho any day of the week....

 

[McMonkey]

Yes, it does appear Moyes is off to Old Trafford. I wish him the best of luck, he deserves it. I think he is the best possible choice to continue guiding Man Utd. Ferguson will still be there giving Moyes guidance and support, especially when it comes to European football. Moyes and Ferguson have a similar temperament and seem to get on well. I can see Moyes happily learning from Sir Alex, something I cannot see the likes of Mourinho being happy to do!

I'm also hoping Moyes will continue with the tradition of giving Everton first refusal of their hand me downs (Howard, Neville, Gibson, Saha etc...). I'm getting used to the departure now of Baines and eventually Barkley. I just hope we get some decent money for the new manager (Martinez / Laudrup?) to bring in their own players. Exciting (and a little scary) times!

 

[Patine]

Hello, McMonkey.

I admit my knowledge of Roman history has a big gap between the end of the Julio-Claudian Dynasty and the ascension to absolute power of Constantine I after he defeated Diocletus, and the subsequent rise of Christiandom in the Empire. Perhaps I can learn a thing or two to fill that gap in the latter part of this scenario. I would like to give it a try when it's in working order, and the graphics look stunning. I just noticed this thread now after being away for a bit. Good luck on this one! I wish I had more to offer.

 

[McMonkey]

Its been a pretty busy week but I managed to get nearly all of the events finished. The problem is I now need to cull about twenty events to get everything to fit. The most logical way I can see of doing this is to end the game around 60AD (historical date for conquest of Britain) instead of 107AD (end of Dacian Wars). I don't have space to build the Dacian wars properly, though they are there to be conquered if the player wants to try it. This will also mean I can cut a civil war, the Jewish Revolt and get rid of the British Legion events which will save me a load of space. It will also mean the game is 23 turns shorter, which doesn't seem a bad thing to me. The player can always opt to continue on after the scenario ends if they are really enjoying themselves.

Right, enough yacking. I had best crack on with the changes!

 

[McMonkey]

I have spent most of today testing the events. I found at least 25 broken events (all easily fixable) and came up with a load of ideas to make the working events more effective. This is a tedious but well worthwhile job and it brings me one big step closer to play-test readiness! The randomize command is extremely useful and I managed to merge several events to open up extra event space. The play-test will reveal which events need strengthening and which are too potent. At least all I need to do is change unit counts to sort these issues out. Right then, best crack on

 

[McMonkey]

Its been tipping down with rain all day, so other than a few hours in the gym I have been working on ACIII. Its amazing how time consuming a task Civ2 scenario creation is, but it's great to see it all come together. As a rule of thumb I would say that for every hour of work you anticipate there are actually 2-3 of actual work to do!

One major problem I have encountered is with the Marian Reform's event that seems to have decided not to work after all! I swear it worked when I tested it after first building it. However, after testing it again it seems to not work at all. Very puzzling and very frustrating. If I can't get it to work again then there is a simple workaround, but that will mean the player has to build units in individual cities at a time of the game when their empire is huge, precisely what I wanted to avoid. I have decided to ditch the obsolete Bireme unit and there is a little bit of event space so I might be able to use it on a post Marian reform New Legion unit. The new Legion event would not take up as much space as the Republican era one as there is only one type of Infantry. I managed to free up some event space whist testing so fingers crossed!

Thanks for listening to me ramble on. I find it does help as I often come up with ideas whilst requesting help!

Another screen shot to brighten up the thread. Rome cannot stand for this!:

 

[Fairline]

The Romans seem happy enough though! I can't help at all (unless you need anything drawing), but I can cheer you on from the sidelines. Stick with it chap!

 

[McMonkey]

Sometimes it just helps to think out loud (or type out loud on the net). I'm itching to get going with the play testing now, but it would be pointless to start if there are major issues left unresolved. I'm pretty hopeful it will be ready by the end of the week now though!

 

[tootall_2012]

One major problem I have encountered is with the Marian Reform's event that seems to have decided not to work after all! I swear it worked when I tested it after first building it. However, after testing it again it seems to not work at all. Very puzzling and very frustrating.

I feel your pain. I'm experiencing the same level of frustration with my events for 'A House Divided'.

 

[McMonkey]

What makes things even harder is the events testing process. I have a separate scenario folder for testing and use DELEVENT liberally. I still managed to get caught out when I created a new .scn file with an old save game I hadn't cleared the events from. Even though I had delevented the scenario for some reason it still read the old events from the save! This caused me some confusion, I can tell you!!! When I find the time I would like to cover things like this in the Scenario Design Guide thread I started to save others these kind of headaches, and remind myself when, inevitably, I forget Finishing off a scenario has got to be the hardest part of the design process.

Today I managed to get the scenario introduction text, the html read me and the Civiliopedia scenario information (concepts, house rules, special units info etc...) well under way. Although I anticipate the need to make alterations during testing, I don't want the playtesters to have to guess what they should be doing. I also want them to enjoy as complete scenario as possible from the start!

 

[techumseh]

Tell me what the Marian events are supposed to do.

 

[McMonkey]

The Marian Reforms (technology) utilize the Leonardo's Workshop effect to upgrade all Republican Era units (Velites, Hastati, Principes, Triarii and Allied Troops) to Imperial era troops (Cohorts and Auxiliarys). The New Legion unit that is the trigger (when it destroys itself against a Training camp) unit becomes obsolete with the Marian Reforms tech and a new Marian Legion unit is available to build. This creates the new type of Legion consisting solely of Cohorts. Auxiliarys and Equites will be build-able, but the Cohort is the primary unit of the Imperial era Legions. As well as having better stats and a combination of the previous units special abilities (alpine etc...) it will be much simpler for the player to organize their forces. This is to represent the more flexible post-Marian era Cohorts which combined the old unit types into self contained single units instead of the three distinct ranks plus skirmishers of the Republican era.

I was hoping that I could use events to remove the Marian Reforms technology every turn and give it back if a certain flag had been switched on (after receiving the tech for the first time) thus triggering the wonders upgrade effect time and time again. Unfortunately this did not work and I had to just create an additional set of events for the Imperial era Legions. Its a shame as it takes up more events space and the Legions have less variety (IE no Cavalry or Allied troops / skirmishers).

 

[McMonkey]

A weekend release is looking like a realistic proposition. Nearly everything on my TO DO list has now been checked off. I will try and do a quick test making use of the cheat menu tomorrow night and if all goes well I will get the files sent to play-testers some time this weekend. Thanks for your patience.

 

[techumseh]

Drew,

Sorry to say, but that's a bit confusing. Given the imminent release, I'm wondering if you've sorted this out or not?

Leonardo's requires a buildable unit, replacing another buildable unit. They must both be the same domain and role, and the obsolete tech for one must be the enabling tech for the other. Other values are not considered.

Why do you want to take the Marian Reforms tech away each turn, and then replace it? There must be a simpler event structure for this, surely?

 

[McMonkey]

Marian Reforms is tech is the makes the Republican era units obsolete in the rules so that they get upgraded to the Imperial era units. This works fine.

The New Legion event creates a complete Legion when the New Legion unit (a low attack missile) destroys itself against the Training Camp (an indestructible static unit). This works fine.

For each New Legion event (IE Italian, Germanic, Spanish, Macedonian, Syrian and African Legions) there are about fifteen units created in exchange for one New Legion unit. This takes up quite a large chunk of the events space!

What I wanted to try and do was to recycle the events so that Leonardo's WS would upgrade any Republican era units created each turn. Leonardo's Workshop only works once when a new tech is discovered. By taking / giving the Marian Reforms tech every turn I hoped upgrade any newly created Republican era units created with the New Legion event each turn, thus saving a heap of events space (IE the thirty events could be reused by the addition of three events; tech gained=flag X on, take tech every turn, if flag X on then give tech).

Unfortunately this did not work as the order the events are executed in is: GIVE TECH then TAKE TECH, instead of TAKE TECH then GIVE TECH!

As an alternative I made a new unit, called Marian Legion, which worked in the same way as the New Legion, but created Legions comprised of around fifteen Cohorts. This meant including six extra events (one for each regional Legion) and less diverse Legions (IE no skirmishers or cavaly included). Instead I have made Auxiliary units buildable and some cavalry appear via random events.

I agree that it is confusing! The easiest way to understand it would be to play the game, but I hope this explanation helps.