Aggie
Deity
Babylon has 17 cities, the Vikings 16, korea 13 and Germany only 10. It appears that we did a good job with the blockade. We have 1 city more than Germany. But then there's the Sid production advantage...
AG12 - Space Race (Sid)
- Thread starter Aggie
- Start date
Turn 0 - A quick diplo check shows that everyone is in the Middle ages, while we're still researching writing 
. To top it all off, we can't even purchase any techs if we wanted to (we'll be able to buy them again at the end of my turn when a 10 gpt deal expires, though). F7 shows that the AI is up to Invention (and most likely chivalry, though not yet Theology), but doesn't have Literature yet, as no one is building TGL. With a palace prebuild, we might be able to get TGL and shoot us into the middle ages (around banking/astronomy or even physics by the time we finish) but we'd have to start it now. What does the team think?
Edit: Also, where are the settlers heading? One seems to be heading to an agressive spot next to Hareid, while the other one is heading to the far east.
. To top it all off, we can't even purchase any techs if we wanted to (we'll be able to buy them again at the end of my turn when a 10 gpt deal expires, though). F7 shows that the AI is up to Invention (and most likely chivalry, though not yet Theology), but doesn't have Literature yet, as no one is building TGL. With a palace prebuild, we might be able to get TGL and shoot us into the middle ages (around banking/astronomy or even physics by the time we finish) but we'd have to start it now. What does the team think?Edit: Also, where are the settlers heading? One seems to be heading to an agressive spot next to Hareid, while the other one is heading to the far east.
Aggie
Deity
Well, Germany and according to F7 the Inca are not in the MA yet. I think that nr 1 priority is settling, but I don't mind a TGL gamble. However I doubt or chances.
This is actually about the time the AI begins to research it, so I'll hold off on it. You're right about Germany not being in the Middle ages yet, but the Inca may already be there. You can't see wonders being built by civs you don't know, it only shows wonders they've already finished building.
Aggie
Deity
True, but according to the leaderhead the Ottomans are in the MA. The Inca leaderhead is from the Ancient Age.
. But I'm still not sure where the settlers are going.
Aggie
Deity
There are spots SE of Viking Hareid and east of spices and Bactra
IBT - Germany settles Stuttgart in an agressive location on the hill south of Bactra
Samaria:warrior->Curragh
Turn 2 - I swap Sardis to barracks and begin chopping its game forest. At size 5/6 with an irrigated game, 3 forests, and 1-2 irrigated plains, it should be able to pump out imortals in 5 turns for defense (both for its 2 defense and counterattacking in case an AI gets greedy).
I move a settler towards the spot near hareid and spot a fortified viking sword.
Bah, all the AI lacks spices except for germany (who is the only one we can trade to, so there isn't a coastal route), so I mine around Bactra rather than hook up the second source.
Turn 3 - Not much.
Turn 4 - Aha! We now have a trade route to the Vikings. 3 turns from now I'll hook up the extra spices and trade it to them.
IBT - Game forest chopped
Antioch:settler->Forbidden palace (with 7 BG in range, it should complete it quickly once it grows).
Ottomans complete Sun Tzu's, their 4th wonder!
Turn 5 - Found Ergili, 2W of Sidon. Sort of squished in there, but it allows Antioch to work 2 of its 7 bgs without an expansion.
Antioch's drop in population lets me abolish the lux tax for now.
Turn 6 - Another one of our city sites has been poached as the Vikings founded Fauske in our north.
We don't need that many settlers now, but there's no infrastructure to swap to.
IBT - Ottomans complete Leo's!!! This sounds like a case of a runaway AI. Let's hope he slows down.
The Vikings are building Sistine's chapel, so they've discovered Theology now.
Turn 7 - Not much, begin roading the spices.
IBT - Ragnar demands 30 gold. Sure, whatever you say.
Persepolis:Settler->Temple (vetoable, as soon as we get some infrastructure options, I would swap).
Bactra:warrior->Curragh.
The Vikings complete Sistine Chapel.
IBT - Pasargadae:settler->Temple (hopefully library or marketplace prebuilds)
Tyre:walls->Barracks
Turn 8 - Road on spices finishes, so some trade opportunities present themselves.
Move Settler in position to settle next turn on Hill west of Tyre.
I decide we should trade our spices for writing, as that lets us see the most techs.
Spices, 4gpt, and 86 gold gets us writing from the vikings (which should also discourage them from attacking us with their beserks).
As I thought, the AI doesn't have Literature yet. Also, Germany has CoL, Philosophy, and Map Making, so we can't make any trades
. A bit disappointing. 2 turns from now a 10 gpt deal will expire and we should probably get mathematics.
Bah, buying a tech updated all of our builds, so I swap Hamadan off immortals to a worker in 1.
Tyre can't make more than 1 shield anyway, so I make one of its citizens a scientist to get literature in 50.
IBT - The Vikings are building knights templar (This tech pace is crazy! The AIs must all be researching different techs and getting them in 4 turns!)
Uhoh...bad sign. Germany moves a swordsman out of Stuttgart...
Samaria:curragh->Curragh
Hamadan:worker->worker.
Turn 9 - I really don't trust the Germans, so I swap Sidon off a temple to an immortal (reg) in 1, without waste. Antioch can be swapped to a vet immortal, but it would be due in 5.
I also whip a spearman in bactra.
Arbela swapped to an immortal (vet) in 2.
Pasargadae and Persepolis can be swapped as well if the swordsman really is going to sneak attack.
Dariush Kabir founded on hill east of Tyre, set to warrior.
Our settler in the jungle finds a babylonian swordsman.
I hit end turn and hope the german sword returns to its home.
IBT - Wow! I am met with a pleasant surprise. The Vikings drop off an MDI and warrior next to stuttgart and take it with an amphibious assault from a beserk (why wasn't it razed? did it grow that quickly?) ! The AIs are at war
!
The German elite swordsman kills an unseen defender, losing 3 hp but not taking the city
Bactra:Spearman->Curragh.
I swap Sidon back to a temple by using the scroll ahead as it has no barracks and isn't very happy.
Turn 10 - Our 10 gpt deal with the Koreans expires this turn and we can trade again.
Wait a second...no we can't!!! Our gpt is useless!!! Those damn vikings ruined it by attacking the Germans and cutting the trade route! Argh! This is a serious setback! Only the Germans will trade with us.
I'm sorry for making such a
move. I should have known not to trust the trade route. Hopefully we'll be able to recover, but it's starting to look bleak .
Edit: Attached correct save.
Samaria:warrior->Curragh
Turn 2 - I swap Sardis to barracks and begin chopping its game forest. At size 5/6 with an irrigated game, 3 forests, and 1-2 irrigated plains, it should be able to pump out imortals in 5 turns for defense (both for its 2 defense and counterattacking in case an AI gets greedy).
I move a settler towards the spot near hareid and spot a fortified viking sword.
Bah, all the AI lacks spices except for germany (who is the only one we can trade to, so there isn't a coastal route), so I mine around Bactra rather than hook up the second source.
Turn 3 - Not much.
Turn 4 - Aha! We now have a trade route to the Vikings. 3 turns from now I'll hook up the extra spices and trade it to them.
IBT - Game forest chopped
Antioch:settler->Forbidden palace (with 7 BG in range, it should complete it quickly once it grows).
Ottomans complete Sun Tzu's, their 4th wonder!
Turn 5 - Found Ergili, 2W of Sidon. Sort of squished in there, but it allows Antioch to work 2 of its 7 bgs without an expansion.
Antioch's drop in population lets me abolish the lux tax for now.
Turn 6 - Another one of our city sites has been poached as the Vikings founded Fauske in our north.
We don't need that many settlers now, but there's no infrastructure to swap to.
IBT - Ottomans complete Leo's!!! This sounds like a case of a runaway AI. Let's hope he slows down.
The Vikings are building Sistine's chapel, so they've discovered Theology now.
Turn 7 - Not much, begin roading the spices.
IBT - Ragnar demands 30 gold. Sure, whatever you say.
Persepolis:Settler->Temple (vetoable, as soon as we get some infrastructure options, I would swap).
Bactra:warrior->Curragh.
The Vikings complete Sistine Chapel.
IBT - Pasargadae:settler->Temple (hopefully library or marketplace prebuilds)
Tyre:walls->Barracks
Turn 8 - Road on spices finishes, so some trade opportunities present themselves.
Move Settler in position to settle next turn on Hill west of Tyre.
I decide we should trade our spices for writing, as that lets us see the most techs.
Spices, 4gpt, and 86 gold gets us writing from the vikings (which should also discourage them from attacking us with their beserks).
As I thought, the AI doesn't have Literature yet. Also, Germany has CoL, Philosophy, and Map Making, so we can't make any trades
. A bit disappointing. 2 turns from now a 10 gpt deal will expire and we should probably get mathematics.Bah, buying a tech updated all of our builds, so I swap Hamadan off immortals to a worker in 1.
Tyre can't make more than 1 shield anyway, so I make one of its citizens a scientist to get literature in 50.
IBT - The Vikings are building knights templar (This tech pace is crazy! The AIs must all be researching different techs and getting them in 4 turns!)
Uhoh...bad sign. Germany moves a swordsman out of Stuttgart...
Samaria:curragh->Curragh
Hamadan:worker->worker.
Turn 9 - I really don't trust the Germans, so I swap Sidon off a temple to an immortal (reg) in 1, without waste. Antioch can be swapped to a vet immortal, but it would be due in 5.
I also whip a spearman in bactra.
Arbela swapped to an immortal (vet) in 2.
Pasargadae and Persepolis can be swapped as well if the swordsman really is going to sneak attack.
Dariush Kabir founded on hill east of Tyre, set to warrior.
Our settler in the jungle finds a babylonian swordsman.
I hit end turn and hope the german sword returns to its home.
IBT - Wow! I am met with a pleasant surprise. The Vikings drop off an MDI and warrior next to stuttgart and take it with an amphibious assault from a beserk (why wasn't it razed? did it grow that quickly?) ! The AIs are at war
!The German elite swordsman kills an unseen defender, losing 3 hp but not taking the city
Bactra:Spearman->Curragh.
I swap Sidon back to a temple by using the scroll ahead as it has no barracks and isn't very happy.
Turn 10 - Our 10 gpt deal with the Koreans expires this turn and we can trade again.
Wait a second...no we can't!!! Our gpt is useless!!! Those damn vikings ruined it by attacking the Germans and cutting the trade route! Argh! This is a serious setback! Only the Germans will trade with us.
I'm sorry for making such a
move. I should have known not to trust the trade route. Hopefully we'll be able to recover, but it's starting to look bleak .Edit: Attached correct save.
Attachments
Aggie
Deity
Hmmm, my 2nd Sid SG with a broken rep We won the first by renegotiating peace and stealing techs.
Yom, you attached an old save-game.
We won the first by renegotiating peace and stealing techs.Yom, you attached an old save-game.
betazed
Seeking...
- Joined
- May 9, 2003
- Messages
- 5,224
Yikes! a blazing tech pace and a broken rep. This game is getting harder by the minute!
I think Firaxis should really fix this broken rep not owing to your fault issue.
Edit : BTW, should I play or should we wait for Greebley. I suggest we wait for Greebey since he comes back tomoroow and I cannot play before tomorrow anyway.
I think Firaxis should really fix this broken rep not owing to your fault issue.
Edit : BTW, should I play or should we wait for Greebley. I suggest we wait for Greebey since he comes back tomoroow and I cannot play before tomorrow anyway.
Aggie
Deity
It's ok to wait for Greebley, but he might have a lot of games waiting for him. The save is the correct one now by the way.
I don't know about the temples. We didn't build them in AG8 either. And that worked fine. I think that it is not only unlucky but also too risky to trade through an AI harbor. We shouldn't have done this I'm afraid. But all is not lost. We can use other trading tactics.
I don't know about the temples. We didn't build them in AG8 either. And that worked fine. I think that it is not only unlucky but also too risky to trade through an AI harbor. We shouldn't have done this I'm afraid. But all is not lost. We can use other trading tactics.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
If you are getting culture at all, surely it should be Libraries?
Of course, but we don't *have* any techs that allow the building of infrastructure. IMHO, this is our biggest problem. The cities are on temples only because there's nothing else to build (you may want to build granaries instead). We can only build barracks, granaries, temples, walls, and units right now, with Antioch working on the FP (as it grows, the time should go down, as it has a lot of potential shields. Actually, if the AIs continue to ignore literature, we may consider swapping the FP over to TGL when it comes in.
War is our only hope. I would go with only barracks and immortals. Upgrade warriors and attack Germany. I don't want to face Zerks. Hopefully they will be gassed by Vikes and we can hurt them enough to get some techs. I would not plan on doing any research other than 50-turn. We need $$ and military. I would focus on getting currency and of course Republic. How much is an AA steal? Can we get anything for a MA with Vikes? Can we get enough military in place to at least make sure we don't loose iron city? If we can take out germany enough and nobody else gets too established on our continent then we can steal/war with most of the world and only have to fend off amphibious assalts which will be much to our advantage. I don't know but it's a plan. Obviously we will have to build up a bit before attacking. I think GL is a very long shot. The AIs will have it long before us at this tech pace. They won't ignore Lit into the IA. I would switch 50-turn from Lit to something toward Rep or currency. anyway that's my $.02.
I began 50-turn on lit already. War with Germany is definitely a possibility with them having no defender better than spears, but we'll need some preparation before we can execute the war. Actually, since they're the only ones that'll accept our GPT, we may want to trade for Math or CoL from them (math to show the tech currency, CoL b/c it's on the way to republic and gives us courthouses) and build up our forces during those 20 turns. When the time to attack comes, we might be able to squeeze a tech from Ragnar if they're still at war (and we have enough gold on hand, they won't accept gpt, and mixing MAs with peace treaties is just suicide since the AI will probably break the deal and the peace treaty at the same time).
OTOH, if we can actually get TGL (which is still a possibility, though remote, the AIs would take only 10-16 turns to build the 160-shield wonder). We have a chance of catching up through infrastructure without executing a war which prevents us from building infrastructure once we get it (since we'll have to keep our promise on the MA or wreck our rep even more). IIRC, MA rep isn't the same as trading rep. If this is true, we may be able to pay straight gpt + MA for a tech and save on some money if the vikings sign peace early.
OTOH, if we can actually get TGL (which is still a possibility, though remote, the AIs would take only 10-16 turns to build the 160-shield wonder). We have a chance of catching up through infrastructure without executing a war which prevents us from building infrastructure once we get it (since we'll have to keep our promise on the MA or wreck our rep even more). IIRC, MA rep isn't the same as trading rep. If this is true, we may be able to pay straight gpt + MA for a tech and save on some money if the vikings sign peace early.
Greetings from LA. I actually have some time now. So I got it and will start playing. I may or may not finish tonight.
[Edit: I now have 1.22 version up and running on my friends computer so I am good to go. I may have to post an intermediate save so I can pick it up again when I get home. Something the new upload system is good for].
[Edit: I now have 1.22 version up and running on my friends computer so I am good to go. I may have to post an intermediate save so I can pick it up again when I get home. Something the new upload system is good for].
Preturn:
Hmm... As discussed we have two routes. A more peaceful one in which I build temples, or the more normal warpath where I build barracks and immortals. I feel the warpath should be taken only if we are fairly certain it is the only way to win.
Can we get the Great Libary? It is probably a long shot. What is the cost to try? I would want max research on Lit. As far as I understand it, the beakers I put in reduce the cost of the tech. Only question is: Do we need lit? I would say yes as a passive game will require more culture than war. There is also the shields put into the Wonder. We have a strong need for the FP, so up to 200 shields we waste nothing and a strong push is not a waste. As we go past that we will waste some shields.
The only thing that makes it remotely possible is that the faster tech is being researched, the less likely the AI is to choose Lit. Max science gets us lit in 25 turns. I might at least start trying for it and see how it goes. If we do get the GLib our position is totally turned around.
Note that the variant of going for a space victory in a pseudo-passive manner plays an integral part of this. Without this, I would choose the military route as more a sure thing.
The other reason is that failure builds the FP faster and gets us lit for cheap culture. This is not entirely a bad thing.
I open the flood gates. German units can now go forth and destroy Viking towns.
IBT:
Arbella: Immortal->Temple (may change my mind on this).
590 BC: I have a settler up north without a good place to put it. I don't like Sardis' placement at all. A town at the tip of the land to get the large number of coastal tiles means a distance of 2. This is why I placed the town one square south on the dot map that I made. On the other hand, the other options clash with AI cities, so I think building the city on the point anyway is still best. I just dislike putting cities that close together.
IBT:
Gordium: Curragh->Worker
570 BC: Build Ghulaman. Join 2 workers into Antioch - I need to get the FP completion to match the time it takes to get Lit. Scandanavia knows Lit already, which means the gambit has probably failed. I will see if they start building it or trade it. I want to meet the last two civs so I can know the cascade potential as well. Since Alesund might be razed in the Viking-German war, I switch Sidon to a settler just in case this happens. I will still push for the FP as I think we really need it. Corruption is close to 50%
IBT: I must admit I am impressed by the number of German units streaming toward the Viking City.
Sidon: Settler->Temple
The Ottomans finish knights templar. This may have broken any cascade. No city we know about has a wonder under construction (the vikings haven't started the GLib as they are at war).
550 BC: I add another unit to Antioch which lowers the FP to 24 turns. Lit in 18
Build Zohak to the South. The settler to the North is also on hold in the hopes that a city gets Razed.
530 BC: No GLib yet.
IBT: I am glad we didn't attack Germany. They has a LOT of units. As in one stack of 11 units. One stack of 23 units. One stack of 60 units. One stack of 14. One stack of 2 units. That is aproximately 100 units. Over 1/3 is swordmen.
510 BC: Shave off 2 more turns off the FP. Still no sign of the GLib. Lit in 15, FP in 20.
IBT: a dread Berserker shows up. He must be pretty darned scary looking as the 99 german troops have gone into flee mode.
Sardis: Barracks->Spear.
490 BC: The german units that could over run every viking city on our island are all going back. The AI stupidity is stunning sometimes.
470 BC: More the same. Two berserkers have somehow successfully been killed
450 BC: Two swords actually make it to next to the Viking town. Will they attack???
Most civs have Lit, but noone we know has started to try to build it.
IBT: The two German swords actually kill the 2 spear and capture the town.
430 BC: Not much to do.
410 BC: Temples are finally coming on line.
IBT: Someone finally starts the GLib and it is Germany.
390 BC:
IBT: Copernicus is started.
370 BC:
IBT: One of the two unknown civs rears its ugly head and completes the GLib. This means we won't even be able to get it via war without tremendous effort. I was hoping the other two were isolated and behind, but this was clearly not the case.
350 BC: Nothing to switch.
Notes:
We almost have Lit which will give us the ability to research if we so choose and culture. If I remember correctly, it is actually cheaper to research than to buy even at Sid level (In 5 turns we wouldn't have had sufficient cash to buy it if I saved all our money). The advantage of cash is that you can "borrow" by using gpt to get techs earlier and get 2 for 1's...Except when your rep is wrecked and the AI is an age ahead of you. Feel free to argue this point. The view that "cash is always god" seems prevalent, but I don't see why in this situation that would be true (also see the point below).
The corallary to above is the question: Do we want to run full science? We will have libraries but not Markets (and Libs are much cheaper to build), so we will be 50% faster at gaining techs with science over buying them. Stealing is probably not cheaper at this low level and I don't think we are ready to fight 40 odd swordsmen any time soon if we fail.
One can renegotiate peace to get around the broken rep, but the more I play it, the more I think that is a major exploit, possibly one of the largest in conquests. Peace deals should only be used after wars IMHO. It certainly seems much worse than ship chaining or buying workers. It is an exploit because it makes a major part of the game (reputation) meaningless. Who cares if you break your rep if there is a way around the consequences of your action?
I reduced the FP time from 46 to 12 turns. This I think will be a huge benefit for us. Corruption is terrible at the moment.
My vote is to go for republic at full research and get libraries up in our main towns ASAP.
The other big question: Is a military solution the only way to win from here? My opinion is no (otherwise I wouldn't have played it this way). If yes, I think our better option is to attack the vikings and Korea to claim our island than a direct attack vs Germany.
It occurred to me as I played that my choices may have been too major for the conversation we had and I should have posted the "Notes" section for discussion first. I apologize for not doing this. I got a bit carried away with having free time to play tonight. I don't think the push for the FP was controversial, so really it only the type of builds (which I initially felt our pre-game discussion was sufficient to cover, but grew more dubious as I wrote the notes) and the research vs cash issue.
Anyway, now it is late so I need to go to bed. I may be able to comment Tues night...
Hmm... As discussed we have two routes. A more peaceful one in which I build temples, or the more normal warpath where I build barracks and immortals. I feel the warpath should be taken only if we are fairly certain it is the only way to win.
Can we get the Great Libary? It is probably a long shot. What is the cost to try? I would want max research on Lit. As far as I understand it, the beakers I put in reduce the cost of the tech. Only question is: Do we need lit? I would say yes as a passive game will require more culture than war. There is also the shields put into the Wonder. We have a strong need for the FP, so up to 200 shields we waste nothing and a strong push is not a waste. As we go past that we will waste some shields.
The only thing that makes it remotely possible is that the faster tech is being researched, the less likely the AI is to choose Lit. Max science gets us lit in 25 turns. I might at least start trying for it and see how it goes. If we do get the GLib our position is totally turned around.
Note that the variant of going for a space victory in a pseudo-passive manner plays an integral part of this. Without this, I would choose the military route as more a sure thing.
The other reason is that failure builds the FP faster and gets us lit for cheap culture. This is not entirely a bad thing.
I open the flood gates. German units can now go forth and destroy Viking towns.
IBT:
Arbella: Immortal->Temple (may change my mind on this).
590 BC: I have a settler up north without a good place to put it. I don't like Sardis' placement at all. A town at the tip of the land to get the large number of coastal tiles means a distance of 2. This is why I placed the town one square south on the dot map that I made. On the other hand, the other options clash with AI cities, so I think building the city on the point anyway is still best. I just dislike putting cities that close together.
IBT:
Gordium: Curragh->Worker
570 BC: Build Ghulaman. Join 2 workers into Antioch - I need to get the FP completion to match the time it takes to get Lit. Scandanavia knows Lit already, which means the gambit has probably failed. I will see if they start building it or trade it. I want to meet the last two civs so I can know the cascade potential as well. Since Alesund might be razed in the Viking-German war, I switch Sidon to a settler just in case this happens. I will still push for the FP as I think we really need it. Corruption is close to 50%
IBT: I must admit I am impressed by the number of German units streaming toward the Viking City.
Sidon: Settler->Temple
The Ottomans finish knights templar. This may have broken any cascade. No city we know about has a wonder under construction (the vikings haven't started the GLib as they are at war).
550 BC: I add another unit to Antioch which lowers the FP to 24 turns. Lit in 18
Build Zohak to the South. The settler to the North is also on hold in the hopes that a city gets Razed.
530 BC: No GLib yet.
IBT: I am glad we didn't attack Germany. They has a LOT of units. As in one stack of 11 units. One stack of 23 units. One stack of 60 units. One stack of 14. One stack of 2 units. That is aproximately 100 units. Over 1/3 is swordmen.
510 BC: Shave off 2 more turns off the FP. Still no sign of the GLib. Lit in 15, FP in 20.
IBT: a dread Berserker shows up. He must be pretty darned scary looking as the 99 german troops have gone into flee mode.
Sardis: Barracks->Spear.
490 BC: The german units that could over run every viking city on our island are all going back. The AI stupidity is stunning sometimes.
470 BC: More the same. Two berserkers have somehow successfully been killed
450 BC: Two swords actually make it to next to the Viking town. Will they attack???
Most civs have Lit, but noone we know has started to try to build it.
IBT: The two German swords actually kill the 2 spear and capture the town.
430 BC: Not much to do.
410 BC: Temples are finally coming on line.
IBT: Someone finally starts the GLib and it is Germany.
390 BC:
IBT: Copernicus is started.
370 BC:
IBT: One of the two unknown civs rears its ugly head and completes the GLib. This means we won't even be able to get it via war without tremendous effort. I was hoping the other two were isolated and behind, but this was clearly not the case.
350 BC: Nothing to switch.
Notes:
We almost have Lit which will give us the ability to research if we so choose and culture. If I remember correctly, it is actually cheaper to research than to buy even at Sid level (In 5 turns we wouldn't have had sufficient cash to buy it if I saved all our money). The advantage of cash is that you can "borrow" by using gpt to get techs earlier and get 2 for 1's...Except when your rep is wrecked and the AI is an age ahead of you. Feel free to argue this point. The view that "cash is always god" seems prevalent, but I don't see why in this situation that would be true (also see the point below).
The corallary to above is the question: Do we want to run full science? We will have libraries but not Markets (and Libs are much cheaper to build), so we will be 50% faster at gaining techs with science over buying them. Stealing is probably not cheaper at this low level and I don't think we are ready to fight 40 odd swordsmen any time soon if we fail.
One can renegotiate peace to get around the broken rep, but the more I play it, the more I think that is a major exploit, possibly one of the largest in conquests. Peace deals should only be used after wars IMHO. It certainly seems much worse than ship chaining or buying workers. It is an exploit because it makes a major part of the game (reputation) meaningless. Who cares if you break your rep if there is a way around the consequences of your action?
I reduced the FP time from 46 to 12 turns. This I think will be a huge benefit for us. Corruption is terrible at the moment.
My vote is to go for republic at full research and get libraries up in our main towns ASAP.
The other big question: Is a military solution the only way to win from here? My opinion is no (otherwise I wouldn't have played it this way). If yes, I think our better option is to attack the vikings and Korea to claim our island than a direct attack vs Germany.
It occurred to me as I played that my choices may have been too major for the conversation we had and I should have posted the "Notes" section for discussion first. I apologize for not doing this. I got a bit carried away with having free time to play tonight. I don't think the push for the FP was controversial, so really it only the type of builds (which I initially felt our pre-game discussion was sufficient to cover, but grew more dubious as I wrote the notes) and the research vs cash issue.
Anyway, now it is late so I need to go to bed. I may be able to comment Tues night...
