AG12 - Space Race (Sid)

[Greebley]

We may want to go to war with the Aztecs and MA with several civs against them. [Edit: Not right away perhaps - Republic and markets are needed, but after that...]

We want them to be in the basement if we can manage it. The Glib is in Tenochtitlan which I think is their capitol and will be more heavily guarded. If they have 3-4 cities and are behind in tech, we may be able to capture it more easily. We may not take the GLib route, but I would at least like to prepare the way.

If the Aztecs are destroyed then the city will be owned by a civ that does not value that city as much and it should have a lesser guard.

I would also establish an Embassy with the Aztecs. Lets see where they live and send the Curragh (or wait for galley) to explore to see if there is a decent route to them. Several turns needed at sea may nix that option.

[Edit: Ya, Samarra can be changed to a Lib without loss of shields in the preturn and will then build it immediately. I recommend this as well. ]

 

[Aggie]

ROSTER:
Greebley
betazed
Mark1031---up
Aggie-------on deck
Yom

 

[Aggie]

@Mark1031: you're up!!

 

[Mark1031]

OK will get it an play tonight or tomorrow @ latest.

 

[Mark1031]

Pre: Change Sammria to Library

110: Sammria library-> temple, Antioch FP-library. Drop lux to 20. Sci ->50 CoL in 8. Switch some cities to max commerce to get that to 7.

90: disband immortal in tyre. Trying to rush lib to avoid flip of the iron city.. Find Incans and Ottomans. See muskets in Bab city.

70: zzz

50: zzz

30: Whip lib in Tyre.

10: Tyre lib->Temple. Whip Libs in Bactra and Ghulaman.

10: Bactra, Ghulaman Lib -> temple

30: CoL -> Rep. In 18 @-4 gpt. Rangar demands 20gp and map. We refuse NOT. In more disturbing news. I see Ottoman Saphi. They must be almost to the IA.

50: Wang Demands 20. We of course cave causing us to sell the barracks in Parsagrade . Switch some cities to wealth.

70: We find the Aztec border.


Spent a bit of time watching the Vikes and Germans battle it out using foolish AI tactics. Germany slogs about 100 troops thru the jungle to take a size 1 city that required 2 swords then starts moving them all back while the Vikes raze the city with a sea assault. I think you should be required to use this tactic in AG11. We are in deep do do. I really don’t see any path to victory. The GL in a Sid Capitol is not really possible IMO. Incans are small and far away so they are potential steal/trade partner but I think the Otto’s are running away with it. Once we get a military up I think we should try to get the world at war with the Ottos although I don’t know what we’ll have to offer to do this. Maybe a better mind can come up with something. I've certainly lost Sid games badly but this is the roughest I've seen.

 

[Greebley]

Maybe we can Ally the whole world against the Aztec. A SID capitol is probably beyond us, but a corrupt city of some other civ, or a capitol of an nCC for small n IS doable. I think the GLIb is probably the only tactic that will work at this point. Unless someone else thinks we can do things another way?

Do you think we have enough to get MA's vs them?

 

[Mark1031]

How much have you ever gotten from the GL before edu pops? I just wonder if it will be worth it. We can research the first level techs in 4 now even in despo. We would probably be well into the MA by the time we can put together that kind of plan. I suppose if it could get us to physics it might be worth it but it will take a long time to put together. I think our best hope is WW to slow everybody down. get the econ up and research steal to trading level. I think Incans have only 5 cities so they shouldn't be too far along. Also, small civ=cheap steal. Might be worth focusing on getting them into a war to keep them down. Although I think the Aztecs might wipe them out if they got in. Tough situation.

 

[Aggie]

ROSTER:
Greebley
betazed
Mark1031
Aggie-------up
Yom--------on deck

 

[Aggie]

I say let's go for that crazy plan to capture the Great Library I have never seen a tech hole this big. If we could build 10 galleys with 20 immortals, we should be able to capture the city once it is not Aztec anymore. I don't see another option...

EDIT: the key word is GALLEY But should we be able to capture the city and hold it for a turn, then we will get ALL techs that are known by two others. This could in theory even be techs of the Industrial Age. I assume that this was what Mark1031 asked?

 

[Greebley]

I have gotten Mass Production from the GLib.

You can go past Education... that is the whole point. If 2 AI are into the modern age, then we will be too. Of course the turn after you have education and the library expires.

The crucial point though is that it doesn't expire UNTIL after it calculates every tech that 2 civs have.

Here is an SG that I was in that does what I am talking about:

From that thread:
The Plan

Successs!

-----------------------------

Here is the whole thread (Revenge of the Babylonian Settlers C - GOTM 14

 

[Mark1031]

Wow. I've never tried that. That is definately the way to go. Instant tech parity.

 

[LKendter]

Wow. I've never tried that. That is definately the way to go. Instant tech parity.

The key is it must be close, and you hold the city for a turn. One of the AW games in the LK series got up to Nationalism thanks to the GL.

 

[Aggie]

I will play tomorrow morning CET and steer towards:

A. Republic
B. Alliance vs the Aztecs with the world
C. 20 immortals
D. Currency and markets
E. 10 curraghs, to be upgraded to galleys
F. Map Making

A, C and E should be possible during my turns (to start with it at least).
B could be difficult before markets and more gpt. I think it should be the whole world vs the Aztecs if we want to take no risks.
D, E and F are worries for later in the game.

Should we succeed in our plan (let's say between now and 50 turns), then we have to continue as follows imho:
-Build markets, courthouses, aquaducts, banks
-Try to maximize the free tech slingshot to the Industrial Age

Sounds reasonable?

 

[Greebley]

I think in terms of tech, my list of priorities would be:

Republic
Currency
Construction
MapMaking

On the assault:
It looks like the chances are excellent that we won't have to cross sea squares to get to the Aztecs. We may need ROP's however with Germany and probably the Incans to get there. We may need more than 10 galleys though. Hopefully the war with Aztecs will keep them from getting infantry before we get there. We can assume we will be fighting at least rifles and Cav I think. It depends on how the war goes. Buying the world map seems worthwhile. Can we do so yet?

I agree with your statements Aggie though I don't know what you mean by maximizing our slingshot into the Industrial means. You mean when we take the GLib? We maximize that by being slow

I would get our infra up and running and then see where we are in terms of what units to bring. Knights would be better than immortals if we could reach them. A mixture of knights and immortals would also work well given the knights higher defense. A few pikes might work if we can't get to knights.

 

[Aggie]

I mean that we get a free tech when we enter a next age (Persians, scientific). If we are really lucky we could use that to sell around.

 

[Aggie]

IHT: Persepolis is on wealth. I keep it that way, but maximize gold production without hurting growth.
Pasargadae can grow a lot faster without slowing down the immortal build.
Sardis can grow a turn faster and still get a temple in 4.
Specialist of Antioch changed from clown to scientist. The taxman from Gordium: the same.
Samaria can whip a temple next turn, speeding up this build with 5 turns. I will do it to counter cultural pressure of Korea (Manpo'o).

We now get Republic in 14 turns instead of 16.

IT: Pasargadae: immortal->immortal. The Ottomans finish Magellan. This is of later concern, but how do we stop them from winning a cultural victory?

Turn 1 (90 AD) Temple in Samaria whipped.

IT: Samaria: temple->granary.

Turn 2 (110 AD) Nothing much.

IT: Antioch: immortal->immortal. Hamadian: library->courthouse.

Turn 3 (130 AD) The Aztecs have a settlement in the north, close to the Ottomans. I really hope that they are not alone on an island with the Inca, who are even more pathetic than us (except for the tech situation).

IT: Babylon wants tm and 10 gold (all we have). I agree to do so. Running at a 1 gpt deficit I ask them to pay us for world map. They pay the one gold we need. Germany gets Stuttgart back. When this city expands the borders, we will lose the spices. Sardis: temple->courthouse.

Turn 4 (150 AD) Why didn't I think of this before? We can make deals with the world now they have Navigation! Babylon, Scandinavia, Aztecs and Ottomans can trade for world map. I can't get more than 8 gold for it. Enough to run a deficit. I could sell spices to the Ottomans, but as long as we haven't got a harbor I think this is too risky.

IT: Pasargadae: immortal->wealth.

Turn 5 (170 AD) We get 5 gold and the Korean tm for our wm.

IT: Antioch: immortal->wealth. Babylon builds Bach. The Ottomans start and finish Newton!!

Turn 6 (190 AD) The Ottomans are in the industrial age. We don't have The Wheel yet. We get 4 gold for wm.

Turn 7 (210 AD) Wm gives us 5 gold.

IT: Stuttgart is Viking again.

Turn 8 (230 AD) 5 gold from wm. I up the tech pace one notch to get Republic in 4. We make -10gpt and have 14 gold.

IT: The Ottomans kick our curragh out of their waters. The Germans raze Stuttgart

Turn 9 (250 AD) I close the isthmus to Germany. The intention is to prevent them from settling the former Stuttgart site easily. One of our cities should produce a settler asap to grab this spot. Ergili? I get 3 gold from selling wm. I have no choice but to lower the science rate again.

I end my turns here. At a nice round number. Obviously our chances are slim. But we are not dead yet! We are able to sell our lux and iron, but without our own harbor, I want to discuss this first. We will have a road to Korea soon. That will make sure that we can trade through either their harbor or one of the harbors of Germany. Speading our risk, allowing us to trade? We have a broken rep though

Red arrow points to former Stuttgart, razed by the Germans.

 

[Aggie]

ROSTER:
Greebley----on deck
betazed
Mark1031
Aggie
Yom--------up?

 

[Aggie]

I made myself 'up' again after my turns. Yom is up, but appears to have posted that he couldn't play in another SG...

 

[Yom]

I can play now. As I posted in Sling3, a couple restarts and reinstalls (patches and conquests) did the trick.

Things aren't looking too good. Just look at all those German units in our land . I'm going to work on getting more units and setting up the next (or next player after that) player for the invasion.

@Aggie: How would Stuttgart have stolen the spices? It was in our first ring and their 2nd ring, making it impossible.

 

[Aggie]

Great that you can play I hope that you followed the discussion to go for the Great Library and our plan towards it.