AG6 - The OCC Space Race (Monarch)

[jack merchant]

I fully concur with microbe on the tech gifting; try as we might, there's no way in which we're going to be able to research everything ourselves before hitting the 20k (this from my 2 attempts at this scenario, the second of which was successful). We need the free techs, but once we get to the IA, we may want to try and get the AI to start researching things on their own too (which does require gifting them closer to us).

 

[microbe]

We have 8 techs for Middle Ages (excluding Navigation).

We are currently researching 10 turns/tech, with Copernicus done it's about 8 turns/tech. So for the entire Moddle Ages it's like 65 turns to go.

When we get into Industrial Ages, we'll research at about 10-12 turns/tech again. Let's say 11. There are 16 techs, but we probably want Sanitation too to spead up our research. Minus ToE it's 15 techs and thus 165 turns. If our free tech is not Nationalism it's 14 techs and thus ~155 turns.

In the Modern Ages, we have 12 techs to go, and 11 to research. With SETI and research labs, we'll still only be able to research at about 15 turns each, that's 165 turns again.

So we have 385-395 turns to go. We only have 326 turns left before we hit year 1985, and 391 turns total.

Aggie, it's very clear we have to rely on the AI to do research.

 

[Aggie]

I absolutely agree with the fact that we can't self-research everything (the AI should help). But the AI didn't have the power to reach us (no Map Making), which allowed us to call their bluff. Now however they can build Galleys and turn it into a real war. Also, they can sneak upon us. That is the reason that I would have liked to postpone the moment of tech trade.

 

[microbe]

AI is extremely stupid when it comes to navy invasion. They will drop a couple of outdated units once a time, which can be easily taken out. Besides we have dromon, so we are safe.

Plus, even if they get to us, they'll have, what, swordmen against our pikes and MDIs.

As I mentioned after Copernicus and before Newton, we should build up our military (not much, 10 units at the most). It's not just for war but also for protecting our iron and avoid AIs settle too close on it so we need a blockage.

That said, I don't even think we should always "call their bluff". If they ask a tech or two once a while and it doesn't hurt, just give to them. The reason I didn't make peace with them was just for the happiness reasons, and if they get to us we can always make peace.

The challenge of this game as I see it is how to manipulate the AIs and use it to our advantage, and sometimes we have to make them stronger. Currently we cannot do 100%, and even 90% is at a deficit. This really worries me. We need to sell techs to the AI and get enough funding to continue the research at full speed. With everybody in ancient ages how could we do it?

 

[carlosMM]

microbe, I have seen different! One OCC game they dropped 4 Impi adn 4 Knights simultaneously, directly next to my town.

oops!


My Cavs slaughtered the Knights, but I got pillaged all over by the Impi....

 

[microbe]

OK Carlos, but that's not my major point so I won't argue.

 

[Aggie]

microbe, we are only not agreeing on the moment of giving away contacts.

 

[microbe]

I think I've explained why I chose that moment to gift to Osman:

We have Astronomy, Bank and Navigation before we have to go to Engineering. If you don't count Navigation, we'll only have 2 techs left. I wanted Osman to provide Engineering (which was successful) and hopefully research Invention before us. For that reason I think I should have given Lit, Republic and Monarchy to Osman too, as I mentioned. Now I didn't do the complete thing (part of the reason was my concern about the team's reaction ) so the stupid AI could go those gov techs first.

When do you think we should start doing it?

I think we have to get a concensus on this as I see this will be our important tactics - we absolutely will need this in Industrial Ages.

 

[carlosMM]

Originally posted by microbe
OK Carlos, but that's not my major point so I won't argue.

and I was not addressing your main point, but simply raising a matter that came to my mind when reading your post
I have lost my share of OOCs being over-confident (or very RNG unlucky)

 

[Aggie]

microbe, my suggestion is to trade vital techs only when we are prepared. So Astronomy for instance when we have enough forces at home to resist a possible invasion. I know that the Dromons can hold off the waves quite nicely. But I am just a careful person

 

[microbe]

Aggie, maybe your next SG could be an "all self-research" game. No buying techs (but selling and concession would be OK) and I think at emperor that would be quite challenging and fun.

I don't think in Middle Ages we'd need any more gifting (unless we give the 3 optional techs to Osman NOW, but with us skipping Navigation I doubt they would get Invention before us anyway - they don't even have library yet). If it were me I'd be more aggressive but I don't want more heartattack to our fellow teammates.

Let's see how it goes. I think in Industrial Ages we'll need it again, but we need to be more aggressive as otherwise AIs will almost always go after Nationalism line. At least we can see if we can get Medicine or not (and hope our free tech won't be that).

Then we need to have a discussion before we do this to make sure we are on the same page.

 

[Aggie]

Good idea regarding the self research game microbe. I seriously consider it

EDIT: Ehm, I already played this game! RBC6

 

[yoshi74]

How about a game where you can't trade anything. You can demand, but never give anything.

 

[microbe]

Originally posted by Aggie
EDIT: Ehm, I already played this game! RBC6

I must have got the idea from that game then.

EDIT: I just took a look again and there you could still trade tech for tech. So no, you didn't play this game.

Geez, too much talk already. Who is next?

 

[Aggie]

ROSTER:
-Aggie
-Microbe --------> just played
-CarlosMM ------> up
-Jack Merchant --> on deck
-Stuck as a Mac
-yoshi74
-Melifluous

 

[carlosMM]

carlosMM --------> swamped


got it.

 

[carlosMM]

I will play THIS one tomorrow I hope.

 

[carlosMM]

(1)
(2) bombard yellow galley to the ocean floor
(3) Great Wall in Paris
(4)
(5)
(6) US wants peace and construction. Research down to 50 still gives Astro in 2 but +35
(7)
(8) Astro comes in.
Banking in 11 @ -16, 84 in treasury. Bombard Egyptian Galley down to 1 HP.
Literature gives us Ivory, Silks and 2 GOld from France
Lux to 0%, now -6 per turn
(9) Egypt tries a runner but I catch the Galley near Tours.
(10)

Cops in 4

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/AG6-450_AD.SAV

 

[microbe]

90sci is -8 and 100sci is -16. We have 78g in treasury.

If we go 100sci we'll save one turn in Banking. We can get 55g from Egypt which would let us to 100 sci for Banking.

So should we make peace with Egypt, with CoL+Monarchy for her 55g?

 

[Aggie]

Peace because of their naval invasion doesn't seem needed to me microbe. But getting a few cents from them (a high price I mut say- 2 techs for 55 gold and peace) to get us to Banking faster may be worthwhile.