AG6 - The OCC Space Race (Monarch)

[microbe]

Originally posted by yoshi74
We should think about getting the sumerians into war with shaka. But it would cost us a tech or too much money, and sumer is tech-wise the closest to us (still a lot of techs behind us).

Zulu won't be able to reach us, so there is no worry. Sumeria has a tiny 3 cities. I'd say let's just keep those two guys equal, otherwise if Zulu conquers Sumeria (or vice versa), the risk is to create a much stronger AI.

By the way we haven't explored all our own island yet. Why not send one warrior out to see if there are any other resources?

 

[microbe]

OK I used SirPleb's culture calculator and did some research.

I attached the file below.

All improvements we already have or will need have 'y' in the 'calc' field. The 'year built' has the years from Aggie's original OCC game or my own game, as an approximation, if we haven't built it.

With this, we'll have culture win in 2015.

Conclusion:
1. No Great Library! if we build it now, it will add about 3620 culture before we get to culture win in 1962!
2. Cathedral and Colosseum two add about 2800 culture in the end (if colosseum is built early). Of course we can sell cathedral or colosseum later if we want to avoid them, and we can always rebuild them (to avoid the 1K double bonus). I expect we can keep it under 2000 or even lower.
3. temple adds 1730. We definitely want to sell it (and rebuild later if needed).
4. Library and University are the only things we have to keep. They add up to more than 4K in the end (assuming we build University at around 500AD). We have to live with that.
5. In the calculation if I put in Knight Templar and if we built it in 980AD it would contribute 642 culture and culture win in 2006. It's usually a nice wonder for OCC as you don't have to build military at all and focus on wonder building, but here we are not going for all wonders so we can build military ourselves so I'd say it's probably not needed.

I think if we follow this path we can be safe. And as game goes I'll put in the real date of "year built" so we can adjust our strategy.

 

[microbe]

A few more notes:

1. Please, in your report, put in the real year! It took me a lot of time to try to figure out which year "turn 5" is!

2. When AIs are able to reach us, we have to put more units to block them otherwise they'd settle on our resources, especially the iron.

 

[jack merchant]

What you can do though is once the space race gets well and truly under way (most likely after we've built an offshore platform) is mobilize to halve the culture output - this still allows you to build SS parts.

I really think we shouldn't be worying about AIs getting to big (this is monarch after all) but rather about them being too small to contribute effectively to our research. On my second attempt, I had two strong AIs at the end which were able to contribute Rocketry, Ecology (as a free tech), Synth Fibers, Superconductor and Satellites as modern age techs - had I been forced to research all of those myself, it would have taken ~50 turns extra.

 

[Aggie]

Thank you for the research microbe

We can indeed mobilize if needed, which would help us a lot. If we play it well, the time between the last civil improvement (Offshore Platform) and space is about 30 turns. That would push the 20K point far back.

 

[jack merchant]

30 turns ? Well, supposing you beelined to Miniaturization after getting the UN (which doesn't seem a bad idea to me - let the AI go for the upper branch of the tree instead) that still leaves 9 Modern Age techs to be researched (Eco and SF, rocketry, Superconductor and Satellites and the Nuclear Power branch). I'd estimate 50 turns really.

However, it is quite clear from microbe's research that skipping the Library is a *very* good idea, and we'll likely want to sell and rebuild the temple every time it accrues a 1000-year bonus too (you can actually do the same with the library too if you do it in the last turn before a new tech completes as you'll need less beakers that turn). Probably a good idea if we can afford it happinesswise to do without a temple completely from the time we hit size-12 to hospitals - every dime spent on the lux tax is a dime not spent on research.

 

[Melifluous]

Sorry about the slight delay...

I have got it!

Melifluous

 

[Aggie]

Also for this one: Meli, what is the status? you are nearing 48 hours. I will take this when the time is up.

 

[Melifluous]

Am at home atm sick.

But have played and am posting the report now.

Melifluous

 

[Aggie]

Sorry to hear that Meli. Get well soon

 

[Melifluous]

Preturn - Switch a citizen to Forest from Grass, TGL due in 10.

Turn 01 ( 450BC) -

Turn 02 ( 430BC) -

Turn 03 ( 410BC) -

Turn 04 ( 390BC) -

Turn 05 ( 370BC) - Research to 10%, 215gold +47gpt. Zulus will talk, not interested yet.

IBT - Egyptians building the Great Wall.

Turn 06 ( 350BC) - Construction (free tech Feudalism) -> Monotheism. Due in 12 at 90%, -5gpt.

Turn 07 ( 330BC) -

Turn 08 ( 310BC) - Worker completes hill mine, rearrange citizens, TGL in 2 turns, size 12 in 2 turns. Move worker to next dye forest ready to get chopping.

Turn 09 ( 290BC) -

Turn 10 ( 270BC) - TGL -> Harbour, due in 1 turn

Turn 11 ( 250BC) - Harbour -> Market.

IBT - Americans demand writing, stick it. They declare war

Turn 12 ( 230BC) -

Turn 13 ( 210BC) - Forest chop finishes, start road.

Turn 14 ( 190BC) - Market -> Dromon. Research to 100%, Mono in 3 turns.

IBT - Mayans building the Hanging Gardens.

Turn 15 ( 170BC) - Golden Age finishes, rearrange some citizens to make max gold.

And thats that.

Throughout I have been trying to bring our curragh home. Upgrade to Dromon? It's now just outside of Constantinople. We are also at war with the Americans and Zulu. Helping with happiness atm and hopefully we can wait until they come with Galleys and then sink them with Dromons, will help us to avoid paying for peace.

Mono due in 2 turns, I think we are going as fast as possible to Education?

We are tech and then some up on the rest of the world. America has 7 cities and are to be feared more than the Zulu who have 3. Looking at the map, Zulu, Sumerians, Ottomans, Egyptians and French could all reach us by sea, without suiciding, but they have to go the long way via France.

20 minutes to play 15 turns

Melifluous

THE SAVE

 

[Aggie]

Thanks Meli. But now that we have the Great Library we have to be very careful with our culture in the game. Also, our research path should avoid Education when possible.

I suggest to follow the following path:
-Mono (no cathedral?)
-Theo
-PP
-Engineering
-bottom half of the tree until Chemistry
-Education (university)
-Astronomy (Cops)
-Physics
-ToG (Newton)
-Towards Free Artistry? Or should we skip this culture rich wonder?

Got it by the way.

ROSTER:
-Aggie -----------> up
-Microbe --------> on deck
-CarlosMM
-Jack Merchant
-Stuck as a Mac
-yoshi74
-Melifluous -------> just played

 

[mad-bax]

If you build a settler, give your city away and recapture it on the same turn you won't get culture from your wonders any more will you?
If you do it before the Uni build you will only need to re-build the library probably.

A little extreme I know


EDIT: This is complete rubbish. <hangs head in shame>

 

[Aggie]

Thanks for the tip mad-bax I settled with selling the temple.

 

[mad-bax]

It was rubbish anyway Aggie. You can't give away your last city, or your capital. I don't know what I was ing. I'm allowed to be stupid sometimes.

 

[jack merchant]

Actually, I think we should still head for Education and Astronomy as soon as possible (or scratch that - we do want to build Sistine for happiness. Go for those two after it's nearly done). It would be horribly inefficient to continue researching without the bonuses from a university and Cop's. We should easily be able to broker for any techs the AI may come up with.

TGL will be useful for tourist income still; the only way it might be useful otherwise is by gifting the AI into the MA, something I think we *should* do.

If we can however find a way to stay happy and build Shake's instead of Sistine and a cathedral, that should work too.

 

[yoshi74]

I think culture gets the one who build them. So after recapture i think we get culture again

I doubt not building cathedral is a good idea. We need the happieness. I just don't know for what we have the GL. I doubt we get more than a single tech from it anywhere. Well, now we have it. Hopefully this doesn't prevent us to build copernicus/newtons...

 

[Aggie]

At this moment, with two wars, we have no riots without our temple 0% tax). I know that we will grow over size 12 in a while and also make peace at a point. But do we really want Sistine?

 

[jack merchant]

Now that I think of it, Shake may actually be a better option (I totally forgot the Hospital effect), It also gives one less culture than the Sistine/cathedral combo. OTOH, it does require us to research three techs that we could otherwise skip, and speed is of the essence.

 

[yoshi74]

Oh well, the hardest foe in this game would be culture

Shakes is dangerous, but we may even can sell the temple than. Can save the culture of the temple and even of the cath/sistine. Wasting research for these techs still is not nice. But maybe democracy would be better with upkeep and we can save the research of hospitals, than we don't waste research.
I would vote against sistine. We now have to build some military. We already pissed off enough people, and in short time they will stand next to our door.